Apple Addresses Alleged Throttling of iPhones With Degraded Batteries

[sracer]

Right because that’s how you retain customers by scamming them into buying new hardware.

Yes. That has been a proven technique in business in general. As for whether or not Apple is engaging in that behavior, those prone not to believe it, won't... those that are, will.

 

[Leomon84]

And you know this to be a fact? How, what's your source?

Also, do you only refer to stock Android phones, or also to Android phones that have manufacturer modified (tweaked, skinned, etc) Android version running?

Easy,

Androids are 100% rootable

You can overclock an Android phone yourself if you wanted.
I base my facts on public knowledge, as Androids are very open book.

If people can find out that Samsung is overclocking their cpus for benchmark tests they can certainly find if OS updates are throttling your CPU.

Also its not happening because android OS updates do not slow your phone. It speeds it up. And this is based on my personal experience.

Other mfg tweak the android OS by adding their own laggy UI on it. They dont play with your hardware specs

 

[EricBlue]

This is just terrible, and it goes totally against Apple's green profile of being the most environmental friendly smartphone maker.

 

[I7guy]

Also its not happening because android OS updates do not slow your phone. It speeds it up. And this is based on my personal experience.

I’m sure I can find some internet evidence to refute that.

 

[firewood]

This is just terrible, and it goes totally against Apple's green profile of being the most environmental friendly smartphone producer.

Nope. Totally the opposite. The longer they can keep an old iPhone running due to software optimizations (instead of scary sudden shutdowns due to a normally aging battery), the less often batteries get replaced, thus lowering total environmental impact over time.

 

[Blaze4G]

Actually it does not. Even with those setting changes it does not run the same.

It does for me. I am able to watch my processor at peak performance and not throttled.

 

[Analog Kid]

There is just no defence of this practise. Let old hardware die in a more natural manner, iPhone users do not have a problem with that. But don't artificially throttle the damn thing!

I don't think you understand how many systems are optimized in real time for a variety of reasons. And I'm not sure there's a clear definition of natural/artificial in this case. Random, abrupt restarts doesn't feel natural to me at all...

 

[Blaze4G]

I’m sure I can find some internet evidence to refute that.

So you'll believe internet evidence when it works in your favor but refute it when it's against Apple. I see how this works for you. Internet is only relevant when it is not against Apple.

 

[Leomon84]

I doubt you have detailed characterization data on Apple's custom A chips. For all we know, some or all of these chips could run at much higher processor clock rates given lower impedance power sources (e.g. new or bigger batteries) than would fit in a style-competitive iPhone. At least for short periods, given thermal constraints.

At for thicker mobile phones, that's a consumer choice. I see almost nobody using those extra thick iPhone cases with an included battery. If very few consumers choose to carry more battery weight in their hand as an option, why should Apple foist that thickness and weight on every customer? I still occasionally carry my 5s because of its small size and low weight.

With an industrial UPS, I doubt the customers care much about the extra few pounds/kilos that the wasted battery capacity (e.g. above spec when new) costs.

No its common knowledge of how a CHIP works. Peak frequency comes with peak power. Just because I have a bigger battery doesnt make my CPU any faster, they are two independent components. The clock speed of the CPUs transistors, gate widths and switching speeds drive the CPU clock speed.

Also by increasing the battery by 20% it will not be a brick, were talking a mm here. Have you seen how thin the current batteries are? The iphone is like 7mm anyways... Would you not buy it if it was 8mm? LOL Another mm will be a huge surface area increase and capacity. You all put your phones in cases anyways..

 

[bkaus]

I think it’s fair for them to throttle, but it should report it.

I do wish they would enable an option to have the phone deplete the internal battery to 90% first when using the smart battery case. Then deplete the external fully before finishing the internal.

Batteries degrade quicker at 100%.

Even a simple option to have max charge 90%

 

[Leomon84]

But a properly designed and manufactured battery should not degrade to the point that it cannot maintain the correct voltage in such a short period of time such as the 1-1.5 years as you say, it should at least last as long as the warranty period and then some. All phone batteries lose capacity over time, but capacity is not the same as been able to deliver the correct voltage, people on this site have pointed out that they have even older models of phone that have batteries that have lost even more % of their original capacity but still can deliver enough voltage to prevent the phone from crashing or shutting off, this does suggest that either the batteries are faulty or apple under specced the battery requirements in order to maintain the thinness of the phones and they introduced the throttling in later version of IOS to cover this up.

This guy gets it
[doublepost=1513891431][/doublepost]

I think it’s fair for them to throttle, but it should report it.

I do wish they would enable an option to have the phone deplete the internal battery to 90% first when using the smart battery case. Then deplete the external fully before finishing the internal.

Batteries degrade quicker at 100%.

Even a simple option to have max charge 90%

All manufacturers spec chargers that do not charge to 100%. It says its a 100% but its actually more like 90% or less. Like you said charging and holding a lithium ion battery to 100% damages the battery quickly.

 

[NT1440]

By all means, explain the difference between the LiCoO2 LiPo pouch cells that Apple uses with LiFePO4 they could have used from the start to this know-nothing.

So if you’re up to speed on the topic why did you write it as if it’s a capacity issue instead of using a different battery chemistry? What was the point of focusing on “bigger battery” instead of what you just posted which is far more informative?

 

[trifid]

Nope. Totally the opposite. The longer they can keep an old iPhone running due to software optimizations (instead of scary sudden shutdowns due to a normally aging battery), the less often batteries get replaced, thus lowering total environmental impact over time.

Wrong, the throttling is unbearable, many will get replacements being that they are so cheap (I just got mine for $20 from ifixit) or ditch the phone and buy a new one. In both instances more waste is generated.

 

[I7guy]

So you'll believe internet evidence when it works in your favor but refute it when it's against Apple. I see how this works for you. Internet is only relevant when it is not against Apple.

In your apparent haste to formulate a snarky reply, you completely missed the point about making a blanket statement.

 

[mi7chy]

Nope. Totally the opposite. The longer they can keep an old iPhone running due to software optimizations (instead of scary sudden shutdowns due to a normally aging battery), the less often batteries get replaced, thus lowering total environmental impact over time.

Nope. Instead of using a quality high capacity Japanese battery cell they use bottom of the barrel higher profit battery cell that has a short life then cover it up by throttling performance and giving you a worse user experience hoping you throw the phone in the landfill and buy a new one.

Sad thing is $40 disposable 2013 phones last longer.

 

[EricBlue]

Nope. Totally the opposite. The longer they can keep an old iPhone running due to software optimizations (instead of scary sudden shutdowns due to a normally aging battery), the less often batteries get replaced, thus lowering total environmental impact over time.

So if the users buys a brand new iPhone, because it's phone is dead slow, instead of just changing the battery is good for the environment?

 

[I7guy]

use bottom of the barrel higher profit battery cell that has a short life then cover it up by throttling performance and giving you a worse user experience hoping you throw the phone in the landfill and buy a new one.

I'd like to see your proof of this. (I'm sure the rest of the world would also)

 

[Leomon84]

Of course. Almost every mobile device could use a larger battery. But most customers don't want to pay for it (in size or weight). And then they would still complain anyway when that even longer battery life and CPU power boost decayed to just today's new iPhone performance level.

For instance, a new iPad Pro (or even a year-old iPhone 7) way outperforms a hypothetical 17" dual G5 PowerBook that every MacRumor reader screamed for and demanded, and yet they are still not satisfied.

Yes but its getting ridiculous now

7mm and 7.5mm no one will know the difference but that will make a huge difference in battery capacity.

I cant see this being an engineering decision.

The higher ups must have pushing the engineering department to severely undersize the battery to make the required width. To the point where you need to throttle the CPU a year in to prevent a low voltage shut down on the CPU.

Im not that good of an engineer but I always take battery degradation into account. Its common practice.

 

[Blaze4G]

In your apparent haste to formulate a snarky reply, you completely missed the point about making a blanket statement.

How does you finding evidence that an update slows down a particular Android phone proves anything? Using your logic it is all conjecture. However, it is no longer conjecture since Apple admits it they slow down phones.

Find me evidence of an Android manufacturer admitting they slow down phones with updates and not conjecture.

 

[Analog Kid]

Now where you mention bigger battery would compromise.. Compromise what? The number game of thinnest phone? Is it not thin enough already? What happened to engineering a good product that can last?

A larger battery with a high peak current will allow the CPU to not SHUT DOWN after a year of usage with battery degradation factored in. The CPU does not operate "faster" with a bigger battery. It can only operate at peak frequency and consume its rated current.

No its common knowledge of how a CHIP works. Peak frequency comes with peak power. Just because I have a bigger battery doesnt make my CPU any faster, they are two independent components. The clock speed of the CPUs transistors, gate widths and switching speeds drive the CPU clock speed.

Also by increasing the battery by 20% it will not be a brick, were talking a mm here. Have you seen how thin the current batteries are? The iphone is like 7mm anyways... Would you not buy it if it was 8mm? LOL Another mm will be a huge surface area increase and capacity. You all put your phones in cases anyways..

It is common knowledge how a chip works. The max frequency is, in part, dependent on the operating voltage. If you allow it to run at a higher voltage it will switch faster and, for two reasons, draw more power. With a larger battery you could both run at a higher voltage and sustain more power drain while allowing the same run time. Until the battery degrades and you're forced again to choose between throttling and restarts.

Yes, thinness is one trade off being made. So is features, heat, performance, run time, cost, weight, form factor, robustness to environment, product life, communications speed, etc, etc, etc... You can't change one without changing them all. Apple chose an optimization point. Maybe you don't like the optimization point they chose, but to then claim that it's easy to make a single change and not having done so is a willful failure is either disingenuous or shows a lack of understanding of the complexity of a design like this.

Oh, and fwiw: I don't use a case.

 

[firewood]

Wrong, the throttling is unbearable, many will get replacements being that they are so cheap (I just got mine for $20 from ifixit) or ditch the phone and buy a new one. In both instances more waste is generated.

It's doubtful that your "many" is actually a large number. iFixit is a tiny company relative to Apple, and would not be if every iPhone customer was having them replace batteries. And stock analysts only report a small uptick, if any, in the percentage of Apple's customers upgrading per quarter, as that would significantly affect AAPL financials.

The typical customer not only bears it, but sticks with Apple at roughly the same rate as with prior products.

This appears to be yet another case of macrumors whiners stuck in an echo chamber and deluding themselves. Just like they did when demanding a PowerBook G5, or external antenna for an iPhone 4, or else Apple would go bankrupt.

 

[I7guy]

How does you finding evidence that an update slows down a particular Android phone proves anything? Using your logic it is all conjecture. However, it is no longer conjecture since Apple admits it they slow down phones.

Find me evidence of an Android manufacturer admitting they slow down phones with updates and not conjecture.

I'm surprised we have to get into this level of detail. However, OP was attempting to say android updates make a phone faster. As to the way I read it, IOS updates slow a phone down. So a natural follow-up question would be is this pretty much the truth or is this all over the map. This isn't my logic, it's someone else reporting.

And you are right, it proves nothing except perhaps android updates slow a phone down.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Easy,

Androids are 100% rootable

You can overclock an Android phone yourself if you wanted.
I base my facts on public knowledge, as Androids are very open book.

If people can find out that Samsung is overclocking their cpus for benchmark tests they can certainly find if OS updates are throttling your CPU.

Also its not happening because android OS updates do not slow

FACTS!!! I never had and official update or custom update slow any Android device I've had. And I've had tons.

 

[Act3]

http://appleinsider.com/articles/17...-slowing-down-iphones-with-depleted-batteries

that didn't take long

 

[Arty6]

So in other words: they are selling devices that after a couple of weeks deliver app. 50% of the promised power and call that a feature...

Where could you have possibly drawn that conclusion based on this article? Apparently we can just make things up and pull numbers out of thin air. YES a WEEK after buying your iPhone it will perform HALF as fast or have half the power or whatever you meant to say. That's why people buy iPhones. It's their genius business model. "half the power in one week!" Its in all the commercials. It's the key to their success! Talk about blowing things out of proportion. God forbid apple (and everyone else by the way) use batteries that conform to the laws of physics.