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Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Dec 20, 2017.
Thats a "no" then
Don't try to change words for the sake of winning an internet argument... Smartphones are absolutely computers, you don't define a computer by what software is available to it. You define it by what it is. (Merriam Webster states a computer is one that computes; specifically: a programmable, usually electronic device, that can store, retrieve, and process data)
All phones will become unstable at some point in time and throttling might be an acceptable solution (just like the battery saving mode is for low charge situation). It's just a matter when this happens. With small battery, high peak power consumption (CPU architecture) and flawed power management circuitry this may happen to phones with fairly new batteries. In this case it's a design flaw.
As far as Samsung phones are concerned, I can give you an example from personal experience. I purchased Note 3 when it was released (September 2013). I purchased the replacement battery in February this year. That's almost three and a half years. I also have Note 4. This one fared worse: October 2014 to March 2017 (it started shutting down at 20% charge from time to time). BTW, the replacement batteries from a reputable manufacturer (Anker) cost me just $20. This in part is the reason I do not want to replace these phones.
How was the user experience before you got a replacement battery? I was interpreting their complaints was that was just how new updates for Android works with older hardware.
That's an "i don't know" then.
--- Post Merged, Dec 28, 2017 ---
What problems do my other phones have? Or other phones by other customers?
--- Post Merged, Dec 28, 2017 ---
They start shutting down at 40% (or so) charge levels when the battery is still fairly young. That's a problem if you did not know it. And your question is stupid as the problem has been described by many MR posters in a lot of posts. Yet you keep pretending that people do not have problems with their iPhones. Apple already admitted the problem twice:
* first when hy released the phones without any throttling in the accompanying version of iOS
* second time - when they replaced 6s batteries. Then after they realized that this was not going to work they introduced throttling.
There are two points here and I'm sorry if you are not seeing it:
- The first point about the power management. No debate.
- The second point about the universe of affected customers. Whilst you might be affected I am not on any iphone I own. 5s, 6, 6s+, 7, 7+ as long as the phone is in a reasonable environment (for example, I have not tried the phones after throwing in a freezer for one hour). In three years, if apple starts to apply aggressive power management on these devices, I likely won't care. Whether or not something might change tomorrow, I'll have to reevaluate.
Quite frankly, where ever this goes, it goes. I am not one to buy new devices because my original ones are slow. I buy new phones because that's what I want to do.
Maybe apple should have been more transparent, but that's the way it goes. The courts will decide on the result.
In cases that require more extreme forms of this power management, the user may notice effects such as:
Longer app launch times
Lower frame rates while scrolling
Backlight dimming (which can be overridden in Control Center)
Lower speaker volume by up to -3dB
Gradual frame rate reductions in some apps
During the most extreme cases, the camera flash will be disabled as visible in the camera UI
Apps refreshing in background may require reloading upon launch
So there's more than CPU throttling? What about the other Apple products? Should I expect my watch brightnes to go down? Lower wifi range from my airport?
Is there any guarantee this is all they are doing in secret?
If a device battery has chemically aged far enough, power management changes may be more lasting. This is because all rechargeable batteries are consumables and have a limited lifespan, eventually needing to be serviced or recycled.
Confirmed planned lifespan of one year.
And they still want us to pay for our own dinner and hotel room while being f****d.
Also to note: there is no plan or commitment to design the next iPhone to last more than one year on its battery, it will be exactly the same underprovisioning.
Apple is reducing the price of an out-of-warranty iPhone battery replacement by $50 — from $79 to $29 — for anyone with an iPhone 6 or later whose battery needs to be replaced, starting in late January and available worldwide through December 2018. Details will be provided soon on apple.com.
Are they holding a gun to your head forcing you into this arrangement? Are there no other alternatives to this monstrosity of a company? Don't like it? Show them by spending elsewhere.
Does this only affect iPhones or iPads as well?
I have an iPhone 6 model MG4N2LL/A and after the iPhone 8's and X came out I noticed the described "throttling" symptoms. I am not getting the battery service warning at the top of the battery settings. I wonder if Apple is throttling the battery service indicators, like the way the auto companies throttle repairs of major recalls as not to overwhelm their service and retail locations.
If he owns the phone then he has no option than to be “forced into the arrangement” there are of course alternatives to this company but what about the device he currently “owns” that he most likely gave them shy of $1000 to own, Own but have no control over..apparently? I guess what you are saying is put it down to bad luck, live & learn, money down the drain and move on to pastures new?
Ya the good old days without a full qwerty keyboard where typing on the device took forever. When phones weren’t water resistant. Where the crap camera took wonderful pixilated photos. Where the only game available might be tic tac toe and the only things “smart” it could do was act as a calculator. Those were the days.
Luckily you can still buy those kind of phones.
So wait to update until you know what’s involved.
I feel your pain and suffered it well myself.
Just because some things are old does not mean that all old things are wrong.
Yes, some old items were bad, and we are so good we have moved on from those.
Mostly when it comes to technology and improvements in manufacturing.
Other aspects of brand new things can be far worse, than they used to be.
Like cheap build quality, where something bought 30 years ago for the home lasted you 20 years, but one bought today is cheaper but only built to last perhaps 3 years.
IMHO they were sealed inside too soon.
Logically, you would 1st perfect something, so it almost never needs any servicing/replacement. Like say computer chips, over old valves in TV's, and now you have super reliable chips, THEN you can seal them inside.
Batteries were sealed inside by Apple way too early, simply for cosmetic reasons.
If Steve Jobs personally believed himself that he wanted batteries always replaceable, that's where we would be today.
Yes, seal them in, but not till the tech has got to the point where they will last the lifetime of the product without degrading. Needing to un-glue waterproof seals after just 12 to 18 months is a unquestionable fail from a design/engineering point of view.
The S5 had removable back, is water resistant, takes great pictures and runs perfect on android nougat. My brothers s5 is as fast as any other flagship out there currently tbh. User Replaceable batteries can be done, with wireless charging, water resistance etc but the fact that my brother still owns and has no issues with a galaxy s5 in 2017/18 is exactly the reason manufacturers have made it extremely difficult for users to replace their batteries. It simply gets in the way of their upgrade strategies if users are able to just pop in a new battery every year or so.
You see, Its just not good for business dude. Apple were the first to lock down the battery and the majority of users consistently chose upgrade as opposed to swapping battery. Samsung and the others were looking on and decided they wanted a slice of that money spinning pie and so began locking down their batteries. Of course, batteries can still be replaced but no longer for 5 bucks and most users won’t be bothered with the inconvenience and so choose to upgrade the phone instead. Industry Wins.
Lower quality is often the price of cheaper goods.
Do please invent the longer lasting battery and save humanity. Apple doesn't make their batteries, they use outside manufacturers just like other phone makers, hence why every new phone will suffer from degrading lithium ion batteries. Batteries were sealed inside because people were crying for water tight solutions due to dropping their smart phones in the toilet or (insert body of water here). Needing to break seals to replace degraded batteries isn't failed engineering, it's a necessity due to current technological limitations.
Ahhh, and there I was thinking it was because Apple wanted to pay $5 for a battery on a $900 mobile phone, instead of paying $10 for a larger capacity battery.
From an engineering/design/money point of view, we know dam well what Apple is doing.
They are selecting a battery capacity, often considerable smaller than other brands, and it's now showing that these batteries simply don't have enough "slack" in them to perform well over what a typical customer would consider a acceptable lifespan of the product.
So their battery is just good enough to show off in early benchmark demos, showing how fast iPhones are. Which they are.
And they should last ok, for, lets say the 1st year, ish, before their small size, starts causing an issue.
There is zero stopping Apple, on the drawing board, designing for a slightly larger capacity battery, spending another $5 for the component cost, and selling you their next phone with a battery that has "more slack capacity" so it will be able to maintain the phones performance for longer.
Other brands fit larger capacity batteries.
And whilst I'm not saying Apple are now, out and out lying.
They are a business, and you can be sure if you went into the board room with my idea, and said:
"Hey Tim, I have this great idea, lets fit slightly more expensive batteries, so our new phone we're working on, lasts longer, and people won't need to have to upgrade so soon"
His eye's won't light up, and you will get a promotion.
Remember Apple is a excellent company, both in their design, but also their marketing and public face/statements to make themselves look good.
You can be sure, behind closed doors, a very few think in very different ways.
Actually, I would not at all be surprised if Apple DO make a BIG deal, this coming Autumn about they new LARGER battery they are fitting in the new iPhone 9 and X2 models.
They may well see this as a plus point to use to promote their phones as being even better this year.
What just does not match their words is that, how come, if their story is true, there are so many other mobiles out there. Non apple, that after 2, 3 years are performing on benchmarks just the same as when they were brand new?
Makes you think does it not? How could this be?
Either Apple is lying, and let's say they are not.
So we are left with the fact that batteries DO degrade as everyone would agree to some amount.
The only simple conclusion you can be left with, is what I said earlier.
Apple are fitting too cheap, too small a battery in their phones, which are only capable of keeping the phone running at good performance for, lets say around a year.
The answer = fit larger capacity batteries in the future, as other brands do, so the battery won't have such a hard life, be so strained, and start to die long before one would expect for such a high end product.
See what they have been doing:
The iPhone 8 will have a 1,821mAh battery, compared to the 1,960mAh battery in the iPhone 7.
The iPhone 8Plus will have a 2,675mAh battery, compared to theiPhone 7 Plus' 2,900mAh battery.
Even "IF" the iPhone 8 needs a little less power.
WHY would a company decide to do this?
Or how about the iPhone X 2,716 mAh
Galaxy Note 8 (3300 mAh)
Pixel 2 XL (3520 mAh).
Razor Phone (4,000mAh )
LG v30 (3300mAh)
BlackBerry KeyOne (3,505mAh)
See a pattern here?
Apple is supposed to be THE BEST
And they say again and again "they make the best products they possibly can"
Hopefully this will give them a kick in the ass they need to start fitting decent size batteries again so their "Premium products" will actually last longer.
I hope, but we shall see in around 10 - 11 months time what they do for their next phones.
Apple wouldn't be happy about your suggestion that people buy a different brand.
It's not about “love it or leave it”.
In real life, people are allowed to both like a product, and also have things about it that they dislike and/or want improved.
When they bought their batteries from Samsung they had no problem. but to save money, they buy cheap defective ones from China.LOL
I wanted to inform MacRumors that my question on Apple Support Communities, "Is iPhone 5 affected by the 'battery-age' slow down?" had been deleted by Apple, saying that my question is 'speculative'.
I am posting it here so everybody is aware of their heavy-handed approach.
I have rang Apple and made a Complaint, spoke to their Customer Relations Team. I am awaiting their response to my complaint.
I have an iPhone 5, with iOS 10.3.3. I know it's rather old, but I am otherwise happy with its capabilities as a secondary phone.
The announcement by Apple (A Message to Our Customers - Apple) regarding the 'slow down' only mentions iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, and iPhone SE. Apple did mention that this 'slow down' started from iOS 10.2.1. though.
Therefore, is the iPhone 5 on iOS 10.3.3 similarly affected?
Will changing the battery make it faster again?
rbrylawski 29/12/17 4.19pm
No it's not.
Kappy 29/12/17 4.20pm
No, it doesn't affect your model which isn't mentioned. A new battery in your phone will probably perk it up a little if the current one is getting pretty old.
rbrylawski 29/12/17 5.20pm
All we can tell you is iPhone 5 is not included in the battery price reduction program. It would stand to reason that since your phone cannot use iOS 11, which is what caused this uproar in the first place, it isn't included. iOS 11 is 64 bit architecture that requires a lot of processing power. Your phone is 32 bit, which is not as intensive. If you need any more information, you'll need to speak with Apple directly and neither Kappy or me are privy to information other than what Apple has posted.
Philip Varner 30/12/17 2.51am
5S runs 11 just fine. However I believe the phone is affected because both my wife and I saw our phones get slower with all past releases. It’s odd Apple doesn’t have the 5S on their list. We bought these new only two years ago.
SnowK9 30/12/17 4.47pm
My 5C has been getting slower and slower in the last year. The news I originally read seemed to indicate the 5 model was included but now I read it is not. I am not convinced it has not been affected. I was hoping to get a new battery at lower cost for it, but apparently that is not being offered.
BatteryGate2017 30/12/17 4.55pm
If iPhone 5 is not affected, that means something is very different (wrong) with iPhone 6 family. So this is a very good question for Apple to address. I haven't noticed slowdown in my iPhone 4 or wife's iPhone 5 performance, but I certainly did notice my iPhone 6 having degraded performance.
rbrylawski 30/12/17 4.58pm
Neither the 4 or 5 can use iOS 11. That's the difference. iOS 11 is 64 bit architecture and processor intensive in comparison to the iOS on a 5 or 4.
Dah•veed 30/12/17 10.28pm
Your battery is quite old and that in itself can be a reason for issues, but as the guys have noted your issues have nothing to do with the iOS 11 software.
Another company has offered a $29 price match and the offer includes batteries for older iPhones as well.
Late 2012 Mac mini, macOS 10.13.2; Watch, 38 mm AL, watchOS 4.2; iPad Air 2 & iPhone 7+, iOS 11.2.1; TV 4th Gen, tvOS 10.2.1; Airport Express
Briansyddall 30/12/17 11.42pm
All iphones & Android phones have a battery life of 2 /3 years.
Having a new battery will always make older phones run better.
Go to apps store download Battery life it will test your battery condition.
KodaineSyrup 3/1/18 9.41am
It is affected, i had to sell my phone a month ago so my girlfriend gave me her old phone (iphone 5) it was running just fine with an old version of iOS (don't really remember which one tho) just after i updated the phone i started seeing a downgrade on performance, didn't really know what was going on, the next day the stupid news about apple downgrading performance for battery life came out haha, but the only thing I'm not really sure yet is if getting a battery replacement will change that performance
rbrylawski 3/1/18 9.50am
iPhone 5 can't run iOS11, so whatever is slowing your phone it is not related to the iOS11 issue. Maybe it's just an, at this point, old phone, with an aging battery, but it's not the same situation. iPhone 5 was released 6 years ago. The useful life of most cell phone batteries is about 3 years before they start slowing down. You do the math.
BatteryGate2017 3/1/18 12.00pm
You can probably just purchase an external battery case for your phone like I did for my iPhone 6. That seemed to speed it up.
I just don't understand why my old external battery packs and battery case, despite being many years old and degraded, still have the ability to power my iPhones without causing unexpected shutdowns or slowdowns. My iPhones think they are plugged into AC when those are connected. What's in those batteries that isn't in my internal battery? Not to mention, I can actually replace those external ones easily myself.
rbrylawski 3/1/18 12.59pm
I could be wrong, but I believe external charging cases don't bypass your internal battery, they actually charge your battery. So it stand to reason, they phone sees a healthy battery because is is getting a more full charge from the external battery charger.
"I could be wrong, but I believe external charging cases don't bypass your internal battery, they actually charge your battery. So it stand to reason, they phone sees a healthy battery because is is getting a more full charge from the external battery charger."
They provide power. If your battery is fully charged and the device needs are met by the supply, then it won't need to tap from the battery. If it's not, then it will charge, but if the demands are high enough it might need a combination of the battery and external power supply. I would guess that there would be no need to throttle since it could probably meet all the needs with a combination of both supplies. But there are different supplies. I've actually seen my iPhone or iPad drop listed charge % while it was plugged into a supply. This can happen if it's not providing enough current to meet demand, so it taps into the battery. There's nothing inherently bad about it.
And in response to a previous post, if it's plugged in it's getting DC power - not AC. A portable USB power supply is by definition providing DC power.
Dah•veed 3/1/18 2.37pm
How iPhone batteries work, and how Apple manages performance over time (LINK)
Notification 3/1/18 5.14pm
We removed your post "Is iPhone 5 affected by the 'battery-age' slow down?" because it was speculative. We understand wanting to share experiences, but these forums are meant for technical questions that can be answered by the community.
We hope you’ll keep using our Support Communities forums. You can find more information about participating here: Apple Support Communities - Tutorials
If you have comments about any of our products, we welcome your feedback: Apple - Feedback
We’ve included a copy of your original post below.
Apple Support Communities Staff