Apple Addresses Alleged Throttling of iPhones With Degraded Batteries

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Bawstun macrumors 65816

    Bawstun

    Joined:
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    #1226
    You don't need to prove that. All you need to prove is that Apple potentially profited by masking its intentions to their customers. We've already had several different variations of users noticing a slowdown and wanting batteries replaced (at their own expense) and Apple refused. The suggested to buy a new device.

    The bottom line and the major component of the whole suit will be: the phones began shutting themselves off after a year of use. They ARE defective and badly made, that's indisputable. Phones should not power themselves off with 40% battery remaining. All anyone has to do is prove how costly it would have been for Apple to issue a 3 or 4 generation-wide iPhone problem and how they skirted around it: a software fix that downclocks your device. Them selling more phones *because* of the defect is and was just another plus for them. It's deceptive business practice and I have faith it will be deemed illegal in every way.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 22, 2017 ---
    Year-old iPhone 7's are running slower than iPhone 5S's. They are downclocking because the batteries or the CPU that powers them are defective. They hid all of this to avoid a costly recall and getting "egg on their face" as a brand. Apple is all about public perception. It's like Starbucks, it's just coffee, but it's PREMIUM coffee. Without the luxurious face of the public perception, Apple can't charge their premium prices. They did everything they could to avoid having this come to light.

    And make no mistake it has nothing to do with the "user experience". They HAD TO DO THIS because the phones POWER THEMSELVES OFF. It isn't about making your battery last longer - its about keeping your defective device from shutting down every single day 1 year after purchase. It's illegal.
     
  2. Aydy, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017

    Aydy macrumors regular

    Aydy

    Joined:
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    #1227
    Also of considering is why after the roll out of iOS11 the 6s was the only device to have an extended downgrade to 10.3 window that was open for some months after 11s release (potentially still open today IDK) No other device had this option after the initial 3 week window.

    Imo Apple wanted all 6s users to downgrade and left that window open so long in attempts to keep users from discovering exactly these inconsistencies that have been brought to light. They are coming clean now but wouldn’t have done so had they not been discovered. I think the 6s, specifically, should have been recalled as there is something going on with the battery in that particular iPhone. I think Apple have known for some time these batteries are problematic but have used skullduggery and software manipulation to cover or disguise issues.

    It may seem innocent enough to,some but when you consider how they have desperately tried to back pedal, coupled with their non disclosure of this information in the first place, It all starts looking quite grubby and devious.
     
  3. Act3 macrumors 68000

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    USA
    #1228
    except 10.3.3 had the throttling "feature" in it as well, the reason 10.3.3 reopened for 6s users was a problem with replacement screens not working on iOS which was patched in a later iOS 11 version
     
  4. I7guy macrumors P6

    I7guy

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    #1229
    Well this should be a piece of cake to prove. Apple should just declare themselves guilty and hand over the keys to the vault. Okay being mockingly derisive however I would believe Apple already this covered when they first started discussing how to improve the user experience as this went from concept to implementation.
     
  5. macmanmass macrumors member

    macmanmass

    Joined:
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    #1230
    Wheres the local people protesting outside Apple HQ over this? Oh wait, they're all liberal Californian Artsy Fartsys. They would never protest their own people.
     
  6. Aydy macrumors regular

    Aydy

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    #1231
    We only have apples word for that. We also are supposed to believe they have only been slowing processors since 2016 which I have a hard time believing. This has been all felt so familiar to many older iPhones I have used in the past and the slowdown theory/conspiracy has always been there only now that Apple have admitted the slowdown but been careful to insist that it began 2016..I cant see many people believing any of this tbf.
     
  7. Act3 macrumors 68000

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    #1232
    Check out geekbench's findings. Its more than apples words. 10.2.1 is when the speeds started suffering for the 6s.
     
  8. Leomon84 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    #1233

    YES i have a friend whos been complaining since Iphone 4S

    Someone needs to dig those phones out and do benchmark comparisons
     
  9. montycat, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017

    montycat macrumors 6502

    montycat

    Joined:
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    Florida
    #1234
    Are iPhone 7plus included? I just bought one last week for a gift and its still in an unopened box. Should I return it? Any suggestions? I spoke with Apple and they said my 7+ was newly manufactured and not old stock.
    Edit: Yes the 7 Plus is included. Im wondering about keeping it or not.
     
  10. DeepIn2U macrumors 603

    DeepIn2U

    Joined:
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    #1235
    Of course Samsung doesn't see the need to slow down the CPU on teh S8/S8+/Note 8 ... they have bitcoin mining maleware to do that for them lol.

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/19/16796084/backdoor-coin-mining-hacks-are-spreading-as-prices-rise

     
  11. DeepIn2U macrumors 603

    DeepIn2U

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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #1236
    a large diatribe to fit your argument. It's nicely done ... yet many forget how many issues with Batteries caused end users 10 years ago. Also I think the 'accessory' market that Nokia once pretty much survived and started cause them too many expenses.

    Nokia E71/72/73, and so many other S60 phones used the very same battery YET almost every model used a different charger. Great choice there for end users changing devices and keeping a battery, did little else than cost them more as the charger differed. They started the ringtone, and the case business, but the batteries and chargers where an absolute nightmare and landfill issue. Very easy to forget prior to 10yrs ago.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6945593.stm
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/nokia-recalls-batteries-at-risk-to-explode/
    Devices affected:
    Nevertheless, a bevy of Nokia devices are affected:
    Nokia 1100, Nokia 1100c, Nokia 1101, Nokia 1108, Nokia 1110, Nokia 1112, Nokia 1255, Nokia 1315, Nokia 1600, Nokia 2112, Nokia 2118, Nokia 2255, Nokia 2272, Nokia 2275, Nokia 2300, Nokia 2300c, Nokia 2310, Nokia 2355, Nokia 2600, Nokia 2610, Nokia 2610b, Nokia 2626, Nokia 3100, Nokia 3105, Nokia 3120, Nokia 3125, Nokia 6030, Nokia 6085, Nokia 6086, Nokia 6108, Nokia 6175i, Nokia 6178i, Nokia 6230, Nokia 6230i, Nokia 6270, Nokia 6600, Nokia 6620, Nokia 6630, Nokia 6631, Nokia 6670, Nokia 6680, Nokia 6681, Nokia 6682, Nokia 6820, Nokia 6822, Nokia 7610, Nokia N70, Nokia N71, Nokia N72, Nokia N91, Nokia E50, Nokia E60

    Kyocera - 2004
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/exploding-cell-phones-spur-recalls/

    Hey ....

    2005 Apple has it's own issues:
    Apple recalls some iPhone 5 models for battery problems
    http://blog.chron.com/techblog/2014/08/apple-recalls-some-iphone-5-models-for-battery-problems/
    Apple iPhone 6S Battery Issues
    http://www.siliconbeat.com/2017/02/...ing_wp_cron=1514002789.8998079299926757812500
    A VERY interesting article from 2010 to read ... with references !!
    http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason1/


    https://www.livescience.com/50643-watch-lithium-battery-explode.html
    Battery Recall List 2002-2017
    http://wemakeitsafer.com/Telephone-Cell-Phone-Recalls?start_index=24&view=lv&yeart=1&catt=1
     
  12. driveparty macrumors member

    driveparty

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    Russia / USA
    #1237
    Totally ludicrous. A5 in 4s indeed is fairly slow by today's standards, but in the same time it is much-much more power hungry due to 45nm tech process compared to 10nm today's for A11 in iPhone 8. Considering many other tricks like disabling some cores, throttling those by the task nature, using co-processors for data gathering from sensors & etc., the actual diffierence isn't ~4.5x but more likely to be a power of 10.
    And apple is tricking us here again. There's no problem with the degraded battery capacity, it's about impulse current the battery can deliver in the time of full load. It *MUST* be designed (and chosen from variety of chemistries & etc.) with 100% load in mind for its lifetime. In practice that means it must meet some 120-150% load requirements considering various usage scenarious (cold or warm weather, frequency of charging & etc.). And the pulse current the battery delivers DOES NOT necessarily degrade with capacity in a linear fashion! Those are related but not like 1:1!

    So what really happens here, and I'm sure due to personal experience with 6s service rejection before they admited the problem and recalled my device for battery replacement, is that they are intentionally hiding either battery related quality issues including any [possible] explosion / spontaneous fire, or just pushing users to buy new iphones / pay 'em for new batteries when out of warranty.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 23, 2017 ---
    Please stop spreading that bullsht. Again, the older CPUs (and memory, and many othe components involved!) are indeed slower but in the same time are about ^10 power hungry due to older (thicker) manufacturing process. It wouldn't be possible to make current A11 CPU as small as it is today. Should they use the A5 45nm tech process, the A11 alone would measure like 1/5-1/4 of the iphone 8!
     
  13. Phonephreak macrumors 6502a

    Phonephreak

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    #1238
    That has absolutely nothing to with Apple crippling your phone. Nice try
    --- Post Merged, Dec 23, 2017 ---
    Notice
    Notice that Nokia replaced 46 million batteries. Apple is fighting this.
     
  14. ArneK macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    #1239

    this is also hasn't been an issue with previous iPhone models. My personal guess is that Apple is so innovative that they invented new laws of physics that batteries have to follow these days...
     
  15. DeepIn2U macrumors 603

    DeepIn2U

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #1240
    My point was to show that going to Android there is a few other issues to face that will affect your cou cycles and performance, thought you’d like to know. Yes it doesn’t have to do with Apple crippling your phone.

    Nokia replaced batteries yes. This was in a time that had user replaceable batteries and the highest battery capacity was 1000mAh; not 1700+

    Did you also notice the amount of batteries needed to be replaced?! You failed to recognize that. Further, 46 million is a nightmare to replace, sure Apple could do a direct 1-to-1 for a new same product to replace (five iPhone 5S users an SE yet their not included for full support and Apple nor any other company is about freebies).

    The key take away here is Apple is doing what their understanding is a best solution by utilitzing their software expertise to manage a hardware issue discovered over time. Many of the affected devices may not be under warranty after 1 year and for those units Apple is unde no obligation to further support them; yet they are.

    There is no specifics of just how many devices are affected by degraded batteries after 1 year just the sheer spread of models.

    46million batteries replaced “could” be one of the few reasons Nokia didn’t survive the hardware cellphone space. Another company licenses rights to make their hardware now.
     
  16. ArneK macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    #1241
    THIS is exactly the big issue with this. Apple would have had to replace all those defective devices - if they hadn't developed a nice litte software update to delay the inevitable. Just so that most people wouldn't have warranty anymore. That is actually exactly what people are suing about. That apple tried to sneak out of the warranty zone so they wouldn't have to pay anything...!
     
  17. Phonephreak macrumors 6502a

    Phonephreak

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    #1242
    Nicely written post. So you admit that this is a hardware issue. Apple is using software “fixes” to manipulate thIs hardware flaw. Apple needs to open up the vaults and replace these batteries. This could have been avoided if Apple just admitted the error and made use of the vaulted customer service. Or is it customer service as long as it doesn’t cost them too much. Hell all I want is to pay for a new Apple battery. They won’t let me.
     
  18. DeepIn2U macrumors 603

    DeepIn2U

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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #1243
    The inevitable would reoccur again even if batteries where replaced to the tune of ALL affected units.

    Should Apple cover both the costs of battery replacements of in warranty and non-warranty devices or allow those none warranty devices to have cost of batteries replaced paid for by the end user?

    Most manufacturers have batteries under warranty by 1 year (in anything!)
    What Apples warranty clause for iPhone batteries?!

    Furious is your iphone under warranty?
    - mine is.

    If this really is a battery issue then the same issue after replacement will reoccur in 12mths. What do you think Apple should do then? What do you think the industry should do as clearly this isn't an APPLE ONLY ISSUE.

    I'm not admitting anything here cause its not my area of expertise. Most likely this is a battery issue. That said Apple is already using software to manage power consumption use and charging so it makes sense to manage the battery degradation by software as well.

    Replacing the batteries may or may not resolve the issue for long or only for 12 mths. Depending on your needs and others nobody else not even Apple will know if you'll upgrade this year or next or the year after. This means you'll be faced with the same performance or power issues in 12 mths. Moreover, would you rather have your device shock you picking it up from charging or potentially exploding or failed internal chipset where the device no longer works cause you only wanted to pay for a replaced battery. I think many people including Apple are missing the bigger picture here and that's you enjoying your device for as long as the OS supports it.

    Yes Apple should let you replace the battery, but not pay for the costs if your iPhone is out of warranty. I think a lot of people affected after hearing this news expects apple to absorb the costs or battery replacement for out of warranty devices. Either way the executive staff need to rethink this and do right by end users. Else we'll see huge drops in sales for the 2018 release.
     
  19. clauzzz203, Dec 24, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017

    clauzzz203 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    #1244
    It is a design flaw they hoped we would not see while they get away with scamming us.

    The older 4S goes by after six years on the original battery just fine with no throttling. It’s a 45 nanometer cpu (versus 16nm) so it is easily drawing more power than the newer ones.

    They knew the bateries would not be able to power the 6/6S/7 so they are covering it up just enough to be throttled after a year so we buy the next one.
     
  20. chukronos macrumors 6502

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    Location:
    Colleyville, TX
    #1245
    OR, go back to allowing users to replace their battery. That way, I can decide if I want my phone to function at full speed or not.
     
  21. mtneer macrumors 68030

    mtneer

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    #1246

    I still don't understand why Apple won't let me pay for a battery replacement if I feel the battery life is going down. Why should an opaque "battery diagnostic test" be the ultimate decider? I mean I want to pay for a replacement battery - not asking anything from Apple. Why do Apple geniuses dig in their heels and refuse customer pleas to replace batteries???
     
  22. Gilligan's last elephant macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    #1247
    An earlier poster stated that you can get your battery replaced under a "general failure" or some other term. Of course this costs more and is masking the fact that the battery had been replaced. Apple may not want instances recorded of users getting a new battery and the phones performance improving.
     
  23. DeepIn2U macrumors 603

    DeepIn2U

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    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #1248
    How is Apple scamming us (other than the perceived and personally agreed $1500CAN iPhone X 256GB model)?! Define his specifically beyond your personal feelings?

    You’re seriously trying to compare a single core iPhone 4/4S CPU at 42nm lithography to an iPhone 8 at 12nm multi-core, multi-threaded cpu paired with a mutli-core mobile GPU, and motion cpu? Seriously?! Lol

    The OS for starters has a much more complex code that is no longer supported on a 32-bit cpu that the iPhone 4 has. The capabilities that the iPhone 6/7/8/X can run even with iOS 10 (32-bit vs iOS 11’s 64-bit) far outweighs what the 4S’ cpu can even dream of being capable of. The feature set is not able to run on the 4S either, again if it’s coded in 32-bit to support that old cpu.

    This isn’t an Apples to Apples direct comparison simply because of processor use of electrical power, and anyone that believes so is truly naive and most likely has no reason to upgrade a working computer built in 2010. Try browsing today’s websites on the iPhone 4S vs the same sites on the iPhone 6 for example and you’ll definitely see the horrible speeds and rendering rates of the iPhone 4S. Keep in mind most mobile sites don’t issue Flash anymore that is supported in iOS 4 on the 4S vs more modern iPhones after the 6.

    The key and single fallacy of your argument, amongst many other glaring ones, is you’re complaining about the performance of a 32-bit processor phone hat is 7yrs old using a battery that old where even the OS no longer supports it. Like seriously, get a grip on reality for an iPhone 4S!

    I’ll agree the iPhone 4 granted iPhone users the best features and performance in its day for our dollar. It had more features presented than any other iPhone yet that’s mostly because the 3GS was so lacking in performance. Just remember call quality and reliability was hurting due to the frame being the antennae as well which pretty much affected user satisfaction. I personally had no idea wtf a Leica camera was until Jobs mentioned it. To this day I still have no idea how that camera would relate to picture quality.

    But I’ll not make the excuse that a 7yr old phone and it’s batteey should be supported by any cellphone company and complain that it’s performance is degraded by software to jump on a bandwagon.
     
  24. JackieInCo Suspended

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Location:
    Colorado
    #1249
    I had this experience with my 6S+ battery.

    The capacity had dropped down to 70% and Coconut battery would report that it was even lower then that at times. Apple ran a diagnostic on the phone in a support chat one morning and told me there was no problems reported with the battery. I ended up getting it replaced about a month ago locally and the phone is now like new again. I never noticed any slowdowns with the old battery though so if it was being throttled, it was undetectable to me.
     
  25. clauzzz203 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    #1250
    You should re-read my post and think again.

    Edited it now to be 100% clear.
     

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