Apple Again in Talks for Peer-to-Peer Mobile Payments, May Launch Its Own Visa Debit Cards

[avanpelt]

This is largely because of banking cartels boycotting Apple Pay.

The banks are trying to protect their incumbency status by not offering Apple Pay services to their customers.

That's not the issue in the U.S. Tons of banks are on board with Apple Pay -- including many, many small local and regional banks.

The problem with Apple Pay in the U.S. is that many merchants are not on board with it either because they don't want to update their POS equipment to equipment that supports NFC or, if they do upgrade their POS equipment, they purposely disable NFC on it because they want to be able to track the purchases their customers make (which I gather they can't do if the customer uses Apple Pay).

 

[Beerstalker]

I think it would be pretty easy for them to do something like this where they let two people send money from each other's iTunes account balances. For example say I have $58.71 balance on my iTunes account and I owe a buddy $40. I double tap my home button, choose my iTunes account and type in $40, then hold my iPhone next to his and it moves $40 from my iTunes account to his.

The part I'm not sure about would be them letting you remove money from your iTunes account and deposit in your bank, withdraw at an ATM, etc.

 

[mazz0]

Don't most banks let you easily send money to a phone number from within their own app anyway? Mine does, and I think most in the UK do. Is that not a big thing in the US?

 

[drewyboy]

Don't most banks let you easily send money to a phone number from within their own app anyway? Mine does, and I think most in the UK do. Is that not a big thing in the US?

Mid to later this year top 20 banks in the US will be rolling it out for instant payment.

 

[avanpelt]

I'm not sure how most of Apple's customers in North America would benefit by Apple reinventing the wheel here. I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of Apple's North American customers over the age of 18 have a checking account. I can already transfer money fee-free to someone if they have a PayPal account (which is pretty ubiquitous and is platform agnostic) and the money can be in their checking account as quickly as the next business day.

I, personally, don't see the need for another card in a digital wallet. I already have all my debit and credit cards in the digital wallet on my iPhone. They work great -- when I can find a merchant that has NFC-equipped POS equipment or hasn't purposely disabled NFC.

 

[lunarworks]

Um, no. I have never found an ATM that dispenses cash for free. I have an agreement with my bank that reimburses me for two withdrawals per 6 months (or something like that) but they all cost money so far as I've ever seen. Maybe different where you live.

Where do you live? Banks in Canada generally allow unlimited transactions through bank-owned ATMs.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Debit card seems a bit complicated -- it either has to be linked with a bank account or pre-funded. No thanks to either. I don't really get the need for this at all. Plenty of good services out there now.

The more Apple tries to mimic 3rd party apps and services built on the iOS ecosystem the more is dissuades devs from creating those apps and services because it becomes a proof of concept and once it's proven Apple pounces with a carbon copy and wipes the entrepreneur out. This isn't new for Apple -- happened all the time with OS X in the Jobs era. But Apple is more dependent on devs now than with OS X which thrives more on Adobe and MS.

 

[tmiw]

ACH is insanely outdated. That's why the banks have worked to make clearXchange or to the consumer, Zelle. Instant among the top 20 banks in America.

Sounds good, but what about the other 7000+ or so banks and credit unions out there?

 

[lunarworks]

ACH is insanely outdated. That's why the banks have worked to make clearXchange or to the consumer, Zelle. Instant among the top 20 banks in America.

ACH is why it takes up to 5 business days for money to get from PayPal to your bank account, which is completely insane in 2017.

 

[dontwalkhand]

I would really like the ability to withdraw cash from a bank ATM using iPhone without my debit card. Maybe you could log into your banking app with Touch ID and request a code which you enter into the ATM giving access to your account. Even if it only lets you withdraw £50 that would be really useful.

Wells Fargo and Chase do that already here in the US.

Bank of America stuck NFC readers on the ATM itself.

 

[ackmondual]

That's not the issue in the U.S. Tons of banks are on board with Apple Pay -- including many, many small local and regional banks.

The problem with Apple Pay in the U.S. is that many merchants are not on board with it either because they don't want to update their POS equipment to equipment that supports NFC or, if they do upgrade their POS equipment, they purposely disable NFC on it because they want to be able to track the purchases their customers make (which I gather they can't do if the customer uses Apple Pay).

Some of the places I talked to say they need equipment or software in order to use the chip reader, so I figured some those may be preventing Apple Pay.

 

[jarman92]

It's about damn time...Apple should have done this a year ago. I use Venmo through iMessage all the time, and a native solution would be even better. Apple should also hurry up adding support for loyalty cards and especially those HID badges everyone uses. A rewards program like Samsung has would also be nice...

 

[Shark5150]

W

I would really like the ability to withdraw cash from a bank ATM using iPhone without my debit card. Maybe you could log into your banking app with Touch ID and request a code which you enter into the ATM giving access to your account. Even if it only lets you withdraw £50 that would be really useful.

Wells Fargo in US now allows this.

 

[big-ted]

Um, no. I have never found an ATM that dispenses cash for free. I have an agreement with my bank that reimburses me for two withdrawals per 6 months (or something like that) but they all cost money so far as I've ever seen. Maybe different where you live.

Must be a US feature, most other countries allow you to use any banks ATM for free with no service charge

Apple mobile payments wouldn't work in the U.K. Too many people I'd want to pay are very happy with their Android handsets and trying to remember who has an Apple device makes it too difficult

 

[arkitect]

ACH is why it takes up to 5 business days for money to get from PayPal to your bank account, which is completely insane in 2017.

That is insane!
One thing at least in the UK it takes 2 hours, maximum. Usually it is instantaneous.

5 business days?
[doublepost=1493311241][/doublepost]

Must be a US feature, most other countries allow you to use any banks ATM for free with no service charge

Yup. Unless it is one of those kiosks inside a shop or such, sometimes they charge.
And of course overseas withdrawals.

 

[jarman92]

Agreed entirely.

Wouldn't it just be easier to run the transaction ACH instead of through a credit card? Maybe I'm not aware of the costs associated (financial or risk-wise), but it seems like they should have made Apple Pay into a front end for ACH instead of a front end for CC/debit.

ACH is just garbage. The Target RedCard uses ACH and is takes foreverrrrrr to clear my checking account. It's also not secure and usually lacks the fraud protection of CCs.
[doublepost=1493311408][/doublepost]

I probably wouldn't use it. Why? It's not cross platform. When it comes to money, it needs to be as easy as cash to anyone on any platform.

I imagine if Apple did something like this they would add support for Android somehow. The biggest reason they haven't moved iMessage to Android is because there's no upside...but if they could make money off the iMessage transactions it would be a big incentive.

 

[lunarworks]

That is insane!
One thing at least in the UK it takes 2 hours, maximum. Usually it is instantaneous.

5 business days?

Well, up to 5 business days, usually 2 or 3. It annoys me every time I sell something on eBay.

Europe has a different, more modern banking system, which PayPal takes advantage of over there. PayPal in Canada is unfortunately tied to the US' garbage ACH, even though our banks up here are modern.

 

[ackmondual]

Debit card seems a bit complicated -- it either has to be linked with a bank account or pre-funded. No thanks to either. I don't really get the need for this at all. Plenty of good services out there now.

The more Apple tries to mimic 3rd party apps and services built on the iOS ecosystem the more is dissuades devs from creating those apps and services because it becomes a proof of concept and once it's proven Apple pounces with a carbon copy and wipes the entrepreneur out. This isn't new for Apple -- happened all the time with OS X in the Jobs era. But Apple is more dependent on devs now than with OS X which thrives more on Adobe and MS.

Most recent example was something called "flux", but with punctuation? Critics say they didn't do anything... all they did was take research about blue colors making it harder for you to sleep and put that into a jailbroken iPhone. Well, I'd counter saying it's not like they just snapped their fingers and it happened. They still had to figure out the tech end of things to implement it.

And the fact that Apple took the idea and implemented it normally via Nightshift just shows "they didn't do anything" is quite false when uses it, and leaves the original devs out in the dust storm.

 

[djlythium]

Yup, it's called business. If you think for two seconds that Apple really cares about you, I've got a bridge to sell. Apple isn't some savior.

I'd personally like to stick with the banks solution which has been in the works for a few years and will be available mid to late this year. It's called Zelle. Heck, if you're using one of the major 20 banks an using their internal p2p, that's actually Zelle. They just haven't official allowed cross payments and formally launched the brand yet.

Word. I look at it as the lessor of the evils.

 

[Ramchi]

Cash wallets are available in India where you can transfer funds peer-to-peer wallets or pay out merchandise at Gas Station or Grocery Shop or pay utility bills. You don't have to carry cash but secure your transaction without having to reveal the Bank or Credit Card details to the merchandise. Apple is perfectly placed to implement similar stuff due to its strength in security but it has to be cross platform ready and must promote adoption level. For example PayTM is getting launched in Canada. You literally do not need to carry cash and you can load cash in these wallets in small numbers - don't keep more than $50-$75 at any given point.

 

[ke-iron]

I'm not sure how most of Apple's customers in North America would benefit by Apple reinventing the wheel here. I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of Apple's North American customers over the age of 18 have a checking account. I can already transfer money fee-free to someone if they have a PayPal account (which is pretty ubiquitous and is platform agnostic) and the money can be in their checking account as quickly as the next business day.

I, personally, don't see the need for another card in a digital wallet. I already have all my debit and credit cards in the digital wallet on my iPhone. They work great -- when I can find a merchant that has NFC-equipped POS equipment or hasn't purposely disabled NFC.

The Answer is easy. Apple will somehow make the process more simple and quicker all at the same time more secure. This is what Apple does best, improve greatly on already existing technologies or features we have.

 

[neoelectronaut]

As someone who just picked up an iPhone SE, my first NFC-enabled iPhone, I'm rather disappointed how little seems to be compatible with Apple Wallet.

My Chase Visa went on there just fine and I was able to add my AMC Stubs card but otherwise nothing else seems to be compatible. A great idea that just doesn't really work in real life.

 

[apolloa]

Will never use it, in the UK it's utterly pointless and just a money grab by Apple because all the banks offer these services already. Apple really is just after the money, I mean a consumer electronics giant offering financial services... I've seen a few random companies offer credit cards and always think money grab.

 

[blacktape242]

im down with this, now if apple pay was accepted in more places i shop.

 

[alayal]

If this is true Apple Cash will launch in 2018, UK 2019, some few countries in Europe, Asia and Oceania by 2020, Spain 2022, the whole world by 2050.

Seriously speaking I hope they do this because it could allow apple to launch it faster than Apple Pay as they only depend on VISA and will accelerate Apple Pay expansion and adoption