VW and Ford are just as integrated. Tesla sources its component from all over the world and assembles the vehicles. Do you think that Tesla is manufacturing the front wishbones, tires, wheels, plastics etc?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Allegedly Discussing Apple Car With Automotive Suppliers, TSMC Working on 'Self-Driving' Chips
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Can't wait for the innovative charging method...
As someone with a deep tie to the economics of the automotive industry, let me help you out a bit with your confusion. An ICE vehicle has many thousands more parts, especially “moving” parts compared to an electric vehicle which has about 20. Every manufacturer can easily switch over to electric vehicles, they are much easier to build; the challenge is that you’ll lose money for each one you sell,if you can sell any, because demand isn’t there and the cost of the battery pack makes them a car for the relatively wealthy. Tesla recognizes that at some point the other manufacturers are going to jump in as battery costs decline, so they’ve poured money into software for autonomous driving as a differentiator, as well as design.
Apple has no intent on going into manufacturing, but is making a smarter bet (remember Tesla is billions in debt and loses money)will simply compete with Tesla on design and software technology and go any number of car manufacturers to sub the simple part, the assembly.
That’s exactly what they do with everything else, stay with me, great design, superior technology integration, and pay an assembler to put together the best tires, wheels, brakes, motor, Italian leather car seats, etc., in Apple’s design and with the software they have spent a few billion on to date running everything.
even electric cars are not "simple" to produce, yes a few components less but still a car that needs to meet safety standards and such ... traditional car manufacturers have stayed away as they didn't take electric car serious, not Tesla is there and now environmental mandates are there so they do not have a choice.
design-wise, it is way to personal that Apple would make it a differentiator, look at Bugatti, Maybach etc, some like it, others don't ... on the SW side, well Tesla again is leading the pack with updates, something the traditional manufactures have totally ignored ...
and yes, they will need a dealer network, people will want (and need) the ability to bring their car into the shop, a Genius Bar is not going to cut it, nor will remote diagnostics, while electric cars have smaller maintenance once needs, they still have them. And you know that this site is full of complaint about bugs, both HW and SW, and with a car, now there is potential life at stake. And Tesla has dealerships (for lack of better word) all over the place, call them service stations or whatever is more appropriate.
and re leasing to Uber, fleets - traditionally those are mostly low end spec cars and the manufacturers do that cause it keeps the assembly line going, they need volume ... you think Apple wants that?
You make some good arguments, I do however still not believe that we will see an Apple car in 2024/5 or whenever
It’s easy on a relative basis. That’s why you can build a factory almost anywhere in The world and be up soon producing cars— there are factories all over the world making over a hundred million cars a year. What’s difficult is to make a profit.
There are many car manufacturers that will be fighting to partner with Apple to produce the car Apple designs. Apple and
VW are a likely partner. That’s a smarter path than Musk took- Tesla has lost billions. Apple will make billions.
I would much rather onlyy keep a car until it’s bumper to bumper insurance runs out, which is about the same period as the manufacture maintenance plan
What exactly will Apple be contributing? Take a look at the ID.4. What is missing?
Elon would disagree with you. He and others have said that manufacturing vehicles is one of the most difficult undertakings.
And manufactured entirely in Guangdong Province with one US dollar per hour labor.
I'm probably going to buy a new car in a few weeks (been test driving Tesla, Mercedes, and Audi's) and hopefully I'll be able to trade it in for an Apple Car in a few years. I don't expect an Apple Car to be less than $80,000. Apple and Tesla should merge but then Apple gets Elon who's kinda like Steve2.0 in changing the world but also being divisive.
No idea if Apple will end up building a car, but while it is possible they will work with someone for a prototype (think of the Motorola Rockr), if they get into the space, the first car to carry the Apple name will be all theirs. The second thing of which I am sure is that it is not too late and will never be too late. Apple entered the portable music market way after others. They entered the mobile phone space way after others. They entered the smart watch space way after others.
They will be successful if they build a quality product that improves on what is available. I have no idea if they can do that, but I would neither state that I would buy one today if they made one, nor that I would not. I think they have the potential to do something interesting, but that does not mean they will actually do something interesting.
While I will never say it is impossible, I think purchasing Tesla is highly unlikely. The stock price is too high (driven up by individual investors - mostly fans), and has no real connection to its prospects. Apple rarely makes big purchases and the cultures between the too companies are way too different.
People on here who keep saying that the car market is too regulated and Apple could not make that work, seem to forget that Apple makes a watch that required FDA clearance. Over all much harder than getting DoT clearance.
As for those who say that Tesla is so far ahead and has gained all this experience by experimenting on their customers, I will just point out that that was what Nokia and Palm both felt. Apple does its major testing in private, and if they are sure they can make it work, we will see it when they are ready to introduce it.
They will be successful if they build a quality product that improves on what is available. I have no idea if they can do that, but I would neither state that I would buy one today if they made one, nor that I would not. I think they have the potential to do something interesting, but that does not mean they will actually do something interesting.
While I will never say it is impossible, I think purchasing Tesla is highly unlikely. The stock price is too high (driven up by individual investors - mostly fans), and has no real connection to its prospects. Apple rarely makes big purchases and the cultures between the too companies are way too different.
People on here who keep saying that the car market is too regulated and Apple could not make that work, seem to forget that Apple makes a watch that required FDA clearance. Over all much harder than getting DoT clearance.
As for those who say that Tesla is so far ahead and has gained all this experience by experimenting on their customers, I will just point out that that was what Nokia and Palm both felt. Apple does its major testing in private, and if they are sure they can make it work, we will see it when they are ready to introduce it.
And if it doesn't sell, no big, just buy back more stock and sell more dongles to keep that stock price soarin. Why risk innovating when you can just inflate the stock price and get the same bonus.
Yep, China is making huge strides in automobiles. I work with a Chinese vendor based in Hong Kong and Shenzhen, not in auto, but I trust what he says (truest rags to riches story I've ever encountered, all through brain power and will), and according to him China has plenty of auto-makers comparable to Tesla.
That said though, along with tariffs, it's very difficult to get consumers to purchase foreign manufactured vehicles, at least in the U.S. market. There are plenty of Americans who only consider foreign models when they are manufactured in the U.S. (for many, assembled won't cut it) It's why auto companies have advertised their U.S. manufacturing heavily. Hyundai even made their U.S. factory the centerpiece of an ad campaign a decade or so ago. It also royally pisses off unions, so if Apple doesn't build at least the cars intended for sale in the U.S. domestically, the UAW and wider AFL-CIO will make it known.
Last edited:
Apple pretty much saved the music business at a time when the ASP for music was fast approaching free. Apple showed that people were willing to pay as much for their music as they ever did, as long as it was convenient.
Agreed Tesla is priced out of range and well beyond its value. I also agree that the idea that no one can catch Tesla is wrong— it’s always easier to catch up than lead.
I think we’re a long way from a real product though. Uber pretty much admitted that when they divested from their self driving tech. I also kind of think that Ive would have stuck around if he had the opportunity to design a car.
Cruise started unmanned trials recently, but driving around one city is a long way from being ready for production, especially when that city has no weather.
True, but the music industry didn't take Apple seriously and arrogantly gave them a sweetheart deal. Apple was still saddled with its 1990s reputation, Jobs had only been back a few years, it wasn't the company it is today. Music execs didn't understand that people were willing to still pay for individual songs, just not always whole albums. At the time, they thought if they could just shut down p2p software, full album sales would return. It was only after iTunes took off like a rocket and eclipsed CD sales that they screamed bloody murder and got Apple to agree to changes. It's how we went from every song being $0.99 to the three tiered $0.69, $0.99, or $1.29. The television and film industries, seeing this, were much more hesitant when Apple expanded the iTunes Store, and most other industries have been as well. Not to say they aren't interested in working with Apple, they're just more cautious.
Last edited:
And it will ship with, at max, a 5w adapter.*
*Magsafe Pro Fastcharge Max S+ adapter sold separately, available from Apple for $49,999.99.
Last edited:
A very good summary. I would also add that the money mostly flowed to Apple and not the music business and the artists.
Exactly, they gave Apple a sweetheart deal thinking the revenue would be essentially negligible. There is an argument to be made that the industry was desperate and Apple took advantage, but from what I understand the music industry didn't do its due diligence before signing the contracts because they didn't think iTunes would be as successful as it has been. The artists would have likely been screwed regardless, as labels were already trying to find contractual loopholes to distinguish digital sales from physical media sales, and continued to do so with their share of iTunes revenue.
Last edited:
Apple uses the same 70%/30% revenue split on iTunes that they use on the App Store (except that there is a cost to maintain an album on the store for the artist - about $35 a year), so I am not sure how you justify your statement.
Yes, but prices of albums and tracks came down and the music industry and artists got less.
See CthuluLemon's post above.
**Apple reserves the right to keep a 30% cut from each energy charge.