Apple and Amazon Adopt Opposing Strategies as Smart Home War Heats Up

[thisisnotmyname]

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Alexa interfaces with the bridge you choose, not the devices.

I do know what I'm talking about, Alexa has been licensed out to third parties and is being incorporated into many devices other than Amazon's Echo, Echo Dot, and Tap. Here's one example as reported by our very own Mac Rumors....

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/03/ces-2017-lenovo-alexa-smart-speaker/

Thanks for the condescension though.
[doublepost=1485562260][/doublepost]

Lol. Security and linking your home to the internet shouldn't even be in the same sentence no matter which companies gear you use. You would be a completer moron to trust door locks, window locks or garage doors to the internet. If you want secure stay off line no matter who tells you their stuff is more secure it will never be more secure than using your keys.

As opposed to that physical lock that can be picked or kicked in. Or the big window just beside that door. or or or... By your logic we should all disconnect from the internet entirely as it's inherently insecure so not place to do our banking or store our personal photos or communicate or make purchases or any number of the things done by literally billions of people daily.

No system is perfect, including physical solutions, that doesn't mean that we need to be neo-luddites and live in fear of cyber criminals entering our homes at will if we make use of home automation. Buy from reputable brands that focus to secure solutions and live your life.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Why can't Apple just require it's chip in specific devices that deem security?

 

[Abazigal]

Apple can try to justify Homekit all they want but the fact is that, currently, the Amazon device is much more versatile. Amazon has developed the Echo to the point where anyone can use it easily and it controls just about everything. Sorry Apple, your blowing it on this one.

As far as security? Sure, it would be nice if Amazon had more emphasis on security but for me, I can care less if someone wants to turn my living room light on and off.

Security never matters until it does.

It's easier to start with a secure platform, then work on making it more convenient and versatile, then start with an inherently insecure platform and hope to patch it after the fact.

Just look at the whole ios vs android paradigm. Ios is rapidly gaining more functionality without compromising its secure core. Conversely, Google practically has no leverage when it comes to getting its software updated. Once the genie is out of the bottle, there's no putting it back.

Apple is playing the long game here. Remember, it's not a matter of who does it first, but who does it better.

 

[shaunymac]

I care whether someone can unlock my doors. I also care whether my devices become part of a bot net. I also care whether an IoT device becomes a hole in my overall network security. Alexa will not be part of my home.

This! I think the people who are declaring "I don't care if someone wants to turn my light on/off" get that all these "smart devices" are essentially connected to your home network to work. If you don't care about someone peeping from any of your cameras, messing with door locks, etc. on your network then I for it.

I too have been staying on the sidelines. I'm in the middle of a renovation and I really wanted to implement some of these tech pieces but I think I'm okay having a dumb home until the la landscape changes a bit more.

Fwiw, this is coming from someone who has tape on most of my cameras. I don't trust what can be done even though I'm running iOS and macOS.

 

[dilbert99]

Unless a piece of kit works with all phones, its a non starter for me (at least while we still have android phones and iPhones in the house)

 

[ani4ani]

There will be a very hard difference between Pro HomeKit people and those who are against it. I value security and privacy over technology which is why I only use HomeKit devices.

More expensive, less choice, lots of issues but hearing Apple's requirements makes me a proud HomeKit user. I don't want someone watching me eat or sleep or unlocking my deadbolt or turning my house into a dance party w/o my permission.

The failure of HomeKit is perfectly aligned with how iOS, Siri and CarPlay have failed (compared to the Android counterparts). Apple puts privacy over functionality and this hurts them in the long-run. I applaud Apple's commitment to privacy.

I am not exactly sure they do put security or privacy ahead of functionality; they just wheel out the claim once they fall behind.

 

[dogslobber]

More Internet of ****. There's no way my home will have this junk. It's a fad just like 3D TV.

 

[aPple nErd]

Apple should have realized this back in the 80s when the pc won over. It still is winning today. Apple's going to lose the home market too if they don't open up a little. Amazon is going to be the new microsoft

 

[drewyboy]

Yet, another person who's "whistling as they walk past the graveyard." It's a defense mechanism when someone recognizes they may have made a mistake regarding their purchase. For example, when folks can no longer deny to themselves that Apple phones are more secure, they say "well I don't have anything to hide, or I don't think there's anyone at Google who wants to read my scanned emails. "

Well, back to the HomeKit issue. Here's some comments from a friend "in the biz"

Most burglars are younger people who easily adapt technology for their needs. You assume they have to be the hacker, when what is very likely is that their will be easily available software tools that allow groups of burglars, (yes, not all, but a large percentage of home burglaries are done by gangs and other criminal groups that share techniques and tools) or individuals to go on line to see when you are gone, turn off security systems, or look through your cameras to see if there is anything they want to steal or worse, anyone they want to rob or rape.

But, you also make a huge mistake when you limit your concern to burglars breaking in. Think of all the people who would love to be able to listen and watch what goes on in your home. This could simply someone who wants to harass you by posting on line photos, recordings, etc., of what is going on in your home, a nosy neighbor, or a likely scenario would be perverts who want to watch you or your children, but it also could be identify thieves, rapists as mentioned above, or more sophisticated criminals who want to blackmail you. What if you work for Microsoft in a sensitive position, once it is easily done on a large scale, who might want to record everything that is said or done in your home?

There's a lot you can read about this topic, here's just one of thousand articles on this topic. Amazon is telling you up front their stuff is not secure, kudos to them for admitting it, it's not too late to switch to HomeKit devices if you care about your and your family's privacy and security.

http://www.businessinsider.com/internet-of-things-hack-shows-cybersecurity-importance-2016-10

Funny that you think your crap is actually secure. Listen, apples security isn't going to stop someone who wants your info. If they really want it, they get it one way or another, period.
[doublepost=1485570626][/doublepost]

Lol. Security and linking your home to the internet shouldn't even be in the same sentence no matter which companies gear you use. You would be a completer moron to trust door locks, window locks or garage doors to the internet. If you want secure stay off line no matter who tells you their stuff is more secure it will never be more secure than using your keys.

Yet you trust the internet with your bank account, social security number and all other personal pieces of information that can f up your life. And let's not forget how much you get paid, your w2/w4, taxes, etc.

It's quite unbelievable the holier than though attitude so many have here and their view of HomeKit vs the competition.
[doublepost=1485570776][/doublepost]

More Internet of ****. There's no way my home will have this junk. It's a fad just like 3D TV.

You are so wrong.

 

[macsrcool1234]

I do know what I'm talking about, Alexa has been licensed out to third parties and is being incorporated into many devices other than Amazon's Echo, Echo Dot, and Tap. Here's one example as reported by our very own Mac Rumors....

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/03/ces-2017-lenovo-alexa-smart-speaker/

Thanks for the condescension though.

Uh, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Alexa doesn't directly control anything.

Try again.

 

[dogslobber]

You are so wrong.

Citation needed!

 

[avanpelt]

Exactly. I love the idea of homekit and I've invested in it heavily. But the more devices I get, the less reliable they all are. Something like this need to have a near 100% success rate for people to really start relying on it over traditional hardwired systems.

I keep waiting and hoping homekit will get better. So far progress has been very slow.

This right here is the reason I'm glad I haven't made the substantial financial investment and time commitment that's needed to transition from my existing Insteon system to a comparable HomeKit-compatible solution.

I've had an Insteon system in place for five years now. In that time, I've accumulated probably close to 15 Insteon devices -- indoor power modules, an outdoor power module for Christmas lights, light bulbs, and leak sensors. Is the Insteon iOS app pretty? Nope. It's very utilitarian. I'm sure Apple's Home app is far more aesthetically pleasing.

However, in five years, I can count on one hand the number of times I haven't been able to control the devices in my home that are hooked up to the Insteon system; and at least twice, the problem was due to my home internet connection being down -- which is the achilles heel for all IoT stuff. That's not a bad track record, if you ask me. For the time being, I would rather be invested in an ecosystem that's reliable (though admittedly less secure) than Apple's more secure, but seemingly less reliable ecosystem.

 

[PizzaBoxStyle]

Security extends much further than that. Would you be bothered if an exploit in your light lead to being able to open your door?

For me, the best security is none of these devices right now. The market as a whole is underwhelming and overpriced. On top of that, having listening devices on 24/7 in my house, especially from companies that love data farming? No way.

I mean, I don't much care if others want to use this stuff or how. I'm a fan of choice. I'm also a fan of not choosing.

Agreed. We've got to get this right, right off the bat otherwise it'll doom the whole concept.

But if Apple is to abandon desktop computing, they need to start doing everything it takes to get HomeKit off the ground.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple should have realized this back in the 80s when the pc won over. It still is winning today. Apple's going to lose the home market too if they don't open up a little. Amazon is going to be the new microsoft

Apple is earning more than Microsoft. They continue to vacuum up the lion's share of the industry's profits despite having smaller market share while the rest fight over table scraps.

Just saying.

Funny that you think your crap is actually secure. Listen, apples security isn't going to stop someone who wants your info. If they really want it, they get it one way or another, period.

That's like saying there is no point to locking your main door because any crook dedicated enough will eventually break into your house. No reason to make it any easier for them than it needs to be.

And maybe better locks will serve enough of a deterrent to give the robber second thoughts about targeting my household.

I also don't mind HomeKit having better security so would-be hackers think twice about targeting it over other less secure alternatives. This is definitely a premium I am willing to pay.

 

[Abazigal]

I saw an excellent counterpoint on Reddit and I am going to repost it here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/5qjskd/comment/dczu2cu?st=IYGS5RRM&sh=a2fd7e1c

It's actually astounding to me that there's people in the Macrumors comments who think Apple's approach isn't the right one and that they're somehow going to "lose".

This is exactly the Android vs iOS fight over again. Android and Amazon didn't pick their strategies because that's what they wanted, it was a necessity if they wanted to compete. No one was going to use Android if it wasn't free and if Google wasn't willing to share revenue split three ways with carriers and OEMs. Likewise Amazon *must* be open if they want to get any adoption. Amazon has no leverage to entice IoT makers to support Echo/Alexa in the same way Apple imposes requirements on HomeKit makers. If there were an installed base of 800 million Echos in the world already then they would. And its obvious they'd follow Apple's strategy if that were the case because the user experience would be better and it would be secure.

With HomeKit my garage door opener or front door won't just open up for a hacker, my fridge won't take part in a [DDOS attack](https://arstechnica.com/security/20...ws-from-notorious-mirai-infects-3500-devices/) and my toaster isn't going to get a virus.

Apple's not going to lose because they have leverage. An installed base of 800 million iOS devices is leverage. Having aggregated the most affluent customers is leverage. IoT makers are like developers, they'll jump through whatever hoops Apple requires.

 

[Fenez]

Funny that you think your crap is actually secure. Listen, apples security isn't going to stop someone who wants your info. If they really want it, they get it one way or another, period.
[doublepost=1485570626][/doublepost]

Yet you trust the internet with your bank account, social security number and all other personal pieces of information that can f up your life. And let's not forget how much you get paid, your w2/w4, taxes, etc.

It's quite unbelievable the holier than though attitude so many have here and their view of HomeKit vs the competition.
[doublepost=1485570776][/doublepost]
You are so wrong.

We weren't talking about anything other than doors and windows. No one here or anywhere else can seriously make a claim that any Internet connected lock is anywhere as secure as a standard deadbolt, no matter who makes the connected system.

 

[Targets R Us]

HomeKit without MacOS support makes it a non-starter for me. I want the ability/option to *not* have to be connected to the Internet or someone's cloud for these devices to work. Today that's the case if I leave home and take my iPhone. If Apple is really serious about security then they need to provide a MacOS-based solution.

-Jeff

 

[cult hero]

Agreed. We've got to get this right, right off the bat otherwise it'll doom the whole concept.

But if Apple is to abandon desktop computing, they need to start doing everything it takes to get HomeKit off the ground.

Apple's commitment to privacy is a big deal to me. And their security record in the mobile space is also pretty good. They're by no means perfect but Google, Amazon, and Microsoft are really in the, "eh, whatever" space.

But still, this stuff is neat and all but... I'm not sure I'm actually thrilled living in a time where my watch needs rebooting, my monitor CABLE has a firmware version, and my lightbulbs have an IPv6 address. Haha.

 

[44267547]

More Internet of ****. There's no way my home will have this junk. It's a fad just like 3D TV.

It doesn't seem very appealing at the moment. But I do see this becoming more relevant overtime. I think this is an expansion of HomeKit and Apple Trying to compete in such a ever changing market.

 

[Gueeds]

Locks aren't secure, they are just deterrents. If someone wants to get into your home, they can easily break a window to do it. If they really really want to get in, they are probably experts and know how to compromise security anyways. Nothing is impenetrable in today's age.

 

[sir1963nz]

I think NOT all smart home solutions require a great deal of security other than entry points (Door/Windows). Most of the Alexa users may be using SMART Home solutions such as energy consumption, powering on-off devices at home....measure water consumption and measure power consumption etc...Most of these applications may not require strict security requirements

The DDOS attacks that were generated using webcams and other IoT devices says you are wrong.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3134...artly-behind-fridays-massive-ddos-attack.html

As we let more devices into our lives the more secure they need to be.

There is ZERO chance of me having an Amazon device, the security is simply not up to scratch. They are willing to risk/sacrifice my security over bulk quick/cheap sales.
[doublepost=1485593301][/doublepost]

Locks aren't secure, they are just deterrents. If someone wants to get into your home, they can easily break a window to do it. If they really really want to get in, they are probably experts and know how to compromise security anyways. Nothing is impenetrable in today's age.

There is a difference between a expert hacker and a script kiddie.
Sure you may not keep th expert out, but the 99% who are script kiddies are worth blocking

 

[threesixty360]

Not sure if this is about apples approach to security. It seems more about actually having a killer app or product to drive the interest and subsequent development effort.

Alexa is a "killer app". Like the iPod was, or gmail was. It solved the biggest issue Siri has: reliability. No one wants to tell something multiple times to do a task and the function needs to be available all the time. Alexa having multiple microphones and being plugged into the wall at your home solved the friction that Siri has.

So now amazon are building on that's rapidly by using what they are great at. Helping third parties to use their infrastructure to exploit a service they have built. Just like AWS or the amazon store.

Apples issues stem from the fact that everything has to interface with the iPhone because it's their halo device. But that presents issues that mean it couldn't go in the direction that amazon did with Alexa in the first place. Which has lead to a compromised Siri experience (iPhone has no ambient mic, no permanent network and power).

Apple will lose this and other battles unless it tells its designers to forget that the iPhone actually exists! Things like the watch and whatever else they come up with need to divorce themselves from that halo device because it will end up restricting them in the long run (as it's doing now).

 

[macs4nw]

Another market Apple passes by focusing more on earnings and milking customers. Once they were on the forefront. Today Apple solutions are over expensive and stalling compared to the competition. Apple is slowly eroding it's brand and has become a money driven soulless company.

How I wish you were wrong, but I'm afraid your assessment is pretty accurate. The company lately seems to lack focus and appears to be lost at sea. Dabbling everywhere, but no longer excelling anywhere. Whatever happened to the old mantra of a thousand noes for each yes, concentrating on only a few things, but doing them exceptionally well?

A laser vision and focus which is essential to Apple's continued success, seems to be missing of late. Tim, by all accounts a caring and decent human being (who has admittedly done an excellent job of riding out Steve's 'pipeline'), is probably not the visionary who could propel Apple to even greater heights.

What really disturbs many lately however is the seeming obsession with nickel-and-diming. Technological trailblazing seems to have given way to shareholder glee. Consumers were once willing to pay premium prices for sleek, premium, innovative, one-of-a-kind products. The premium prices have remained, but the products seem no longer worthy of those elevated prices.

Credit where credit is due, the product warranties are still amongst the best in the industry, but once those are pared down in the quest for additional profits, other company's products may very well suddenly become a viable alternative for many currently still die-hard Apple enthusiasts. That will be a sad day for a company that once prided itself on having the most loyal customer base.

 

[0098386]

Hopefully this huge push from Amazon causes Apple to look into how they can improve their practice.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

I don't care about Siri, but I do care about a Homekit Hub that is not a 179 euro Apple TV or a 500 euro iPad. Make this 79 like the old Apple TV and I'll get one for sure.