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Originally posted by sturm375
P4 2.8GHz @ $385
Athlon 2700 XP (333 FSB) @ $352
G4 ????

How much does it cost to buy just a G4 processor? The prices above are from www.pricewatch.com, and I am sure that big OEMs get better pricing then the above.
I'm sure it's approximately close to:

NEW! PowerForce G4 Series 133
867MHz $449
1000MHz $699

NEW! PowerForce Dual G4 Series 133
Dual 867MHz $799
Dual 1000MHz $1199

So around $600 for a single 1 GHz Motorola PowerPC G4 7455. Ouch.

This is the only real way to get PowerPC chips, since stupid Apple solders the friggin processors. C'mon. I recently upgraded from Athlon 1.4 GHz to Athlon XP 2100+ rated at 1.733 GHz for $90. That's a 333MHz jump and about same percentage of jump you'd get from Dual 800 to Dual 1 GHz [1000/800 = 1.25, 1733/1400 = 1.24] all for $1100 more than a single Athlon XP 1.73 GHz processor. Same figures are true for single processor 800 MHz G4 to single processor 1 GHz G4, except it's $600 more!

To give this a better perspective, the Athlon 1.4 GHz and Power Mac G4 Dual 800 were in the same time frame basically. I chose my Athlon 1.4 GHz over the Power Mac G4 Dual 800 MHz, and I've upgraded already to 1.73 GHz, and if I had gotten the Dual 800 MHz, I'd have to pay $1100 [oops, was thinking the single processor] more for the same percentage of jump. Ridiculous! Besides, I'd have paid more for the Power Mac than this Athlon.
 
Originally posted by sturm375


P4 2.8GHz @ $385
Athlon 2700 XP (333 FSB) @ $352
G4 ????

How much does it cost to buy just a G4 processor? The prices above are from www.pricewatch.com, and I am sure that big OEMs get better pricing then the above.

You picked pretty weird prices to prove your point.

An Athlon XP 2000 = $79
A Pentium 4 2ghz = $140 or 173 depending if it is sock 478 or not
A G4 500mhz = $279

And we all know the XP 2000 KILLS a 500mhz G4. It kills a 1ghz G4 even.

G4 chips are -expensive- and not very fast compared to Athlons and Pentium 4s... it's that simple.
 
Originally posted by MacCoaster

I'm sure it's approximately close to:

NEW! PowerForce G4 Series 133
867MHz $449
1000MHz $699

NEW! PowerForce Dual G4 Series 133
Dual 867MHz $799
Dual 1000MHz $1199

So around $600 for a single 1 GHz Motorola PowerPC G4 7455. Ouch.

This is the only real way to get PowerPC chips, since stupid Apple solders the friggin processors. C'mon. I recently upgraded from Athlon 1.4 GHz to Athlon XP 2100+ rated at 1.733 GHz for $90. That's a 333MHz jump and about same percentage of jump you'd get from Dual 800 to Dual 1 GHz [1000/800 = 1.25, 1733/1400 = 1.24] all for $1100 more than a single Athlon XP 1.73 GHz processor. Same figures are true for single processor 800 MHz G4 to single processor 1 GHz G4, except it's $600 more!

To give this a better perspective, the Athlon 1.4 GHz and Power Mac G4 Dual 800 were in the same time frame basically. I chose my Athlon 1.4 GHz over the Power Mac G4 Dual 800 MHz, and I've upgraded already to 1.73 GHz, and if I had gotten the Dual 800 MHz, I'd have to pay $600 more for the same percentage of jump. Ridiculous!

It's a RIPOFF! I sold my dual 450 and bought a NEW dual 867 and the difference was $150 LESS than the upgrade price! Plus I have a bigger HD, more RAM, better graphics card, faster system bus, etc!

Anyone who upgrades their dual machine is on crack.
 
Originally posted by springscansing


You picked pretty weird prices to prove your point.

An Athlon XP 2000 = $79
A Pentium 4 2ghz = $140 or 173 depending if it is sock 478 or not
A G4 500mhz = $279

And we all know the XP 2000 KILLS a 500mhz G4. It kills a 1ghz G4 even.

G4 chips are -expensive- and not very fast compared to Athlons and Pentium 4s... it's that simple.
I wouldn't say weird. The processors are all one of the latest possibilities. I think he wanted to compare to the current 1.25 GHz G4.

Btw, I bought the 2100 for $79 or was it $89... yeah... point is... dirt cheap!
 
Originally posted by MacCoaster

I wouldn't say weird. The processors are all one of the latest possibilities. I think he wanted to compare to the current 1.25 GHz G4.

That's not really valid though since the latest P4, while the same price as the 1.25 G4 maybe, kills it speedwise.
 
Originally posted by sturm375


P4 2.8GHz @ $385
Athlon 2700 XP (333 FSB) @ $352
G4 ????

I think I read they are $350, depending on quantities/speed. Remember they are really embeded processors so are used in low cost applications as well.
 
If you had to make a bet for a million dollars and you only got it if you guessed Apple's next move, who would bet the million on the next processor family being the PPC 970 and who would bet it will be x86....just curious...

I would take my chance and bet for the PowerPC 970, at least I hope that is the road Apple takes, it sounds like it will work great for them and it just makes a lot more marketing sense IMO. Anyone think there is a better chance they will actually go x86 across the board next year and change their whole platform?
 
Originally posted by sturm375

At this point, no-one wants a home-built Apple. Mac means simplicity, thus the iMac. Apple does the work for you, so you don't have to.

I dont think the announcement of AMD as their processor means we will be able to build our own Apple computers. It just means AMD will be under the hood of a proprietary Apple box instead of motorola.
 
Re: Re: AMD vs Microsoft

Originally posted by MacCoaster

Btw, AMD isn't on IA64. That's Intel. AMD's Hammer series are x86-64.

Besides, if Microsoft thinks Mac OS X is a serious threat, why make Microsoft Office for it?

I think it's a great way to get out of the PowerPC hell. But as far as how they plan to do it or even if they plan to is still totally up to Apple and we don't know what they are exactly yet.

PowerPC 970 is an alternative, guys, but it still isn't a confirmation. 2003 will prove to be a very interesting year, no? :D

i86-64, yup, my brains gone. IA64 is 'Itanic'.

Microsoft had to make Office for 5 years and would look bad legally if it dropped support now. It also makes them money, more importantly.

We're not in PowerPC hell! We're in Motorola hell but the IBM 970 looks promising, and although it hasn't been confirmed, who else needs Altivec?

2003 does look like fun! Here's hoping not too late into '03!
 
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
If you had to make a bet for a million dollars and you only got it if you guessed Apple's next move, who would bet the million on the next processor family being the PPC 970 and who would bet it will be x86....just curious...

I would take my chance and bet for the PowerPC 970, at least I hope that is the road Apple takes, it sounds like it will work great for them and it just makes a lot more marketing sense IMO. Anyone think there is a better chance they will actually go x86 across the board next year and change their whole platform?

Strange, I probably would have chosen the 7457 as the next upgrade to the 7455s.

And you did say the NEXT move.
 
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy


If this happens get ready to throw every PPC box in the trash in 6 months to a year, software development for the PPC will head the same way OS9 development has.

Hmmm. Well, considering the PPC-x86 shift would require little more than a recompile, I don't think that many developers would drop PPC support immediately. It would "fade" as apps get optimized for the other architecture, but not dropped, probably for a few years at least. Think about it: at what % of the Mac population do you cut PPC off? 50%? 10% ? 1%? There is a cost/benefit analysis there, and I just don't see the costs being very high except in the QA department.


Also the shift would have to be product wide, you can't just put an x86 in a PowerMac and leave a G4/G3 in the consumer products, you then have two platforms and two different software requirements, hell you have two Macs that are not even compatable with each other!!!!!

Why not? I mean, XServe for instance doesn't generally share apps with your home iMac, right? I would expect all new apps to be PPC/x86 fat, and remain so for quite a while.

...this will be a huge mess and we don't even know how these chips will perform on OSX. What if the same chip runs OSX slower then it does XP?

Ummm ... then Apple doesn't use that chip until OS X is marketable against Windows? I mean, you do understand that Apple will test these machines before selling them, right?

That could really happen you know, then Apple has some serious issues, because they will then be benchmarked right up with XP because the system will be exactly the same except for the OS.

I don't get this. On an application level, you could always benchmark Photoshop performance in Windows versus a Mac. On an OS level, you can always benchmark OS X performance versus Windows. How does it help knowing that under the OS is an x8 processer instead of a PPC? It changes nothing whatsoever.

If OS X is "slow" because of the PPC architecture or because it is poorly written, that does not matter for the end user. All that matters is, is a Mac fast enough for me, and if not, is a Windows machine faster?

I mean, Linux and Windows share processors and even often dual-boot on the same machine. And yes, Linux file browsers (KSE Konqueror and Gnome Nautilus) are slow compared to Window's Explorer, but that doesn't even register in most people's minds as a reason not to use Linux.


Dumb Dumb Dumb Steve Jobs, you brought Apple back from Dead with the G3 and the iMac, but you are going to kill it just turning it into another Wintel box maker.....duh!

Personally, I am giving Jobs the benefit of the doubt here. Until we know that Apple is scutting its hardware business to go full time into selling and promoting OS X on Intel/AMD franken-machines, and that OS X is indeed ten times slower than Windows on equivalent hardware, I am willing to believe that Apple's engineers will do their work and due dilligence.
 
Originally posted by rugby
Quad-Hammer
Serial-ATA
onboard 7.1 THX sound
HT through the motherboard
PC400 Dual channel DDR RAM
8XAGP
700w PSU ;)
and OS X

Sounds good to me.

That is kind of what I am thinking... But I still want my next comp
to have a 64 bit processor. If apple 'switches' :D to x86, then
prices will go down, and speed will go up. It sure does sound
good to me.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Apple at Comdex

Originally posted by springscansing


The rumor said shattering... and there's nothing shattering about a 802.11 improvment... maybe this is it, but I doubt it. I doubt AMD chips in Macs too though. Hell, it might be nothing. Let's wait.

Hmmm ... Well, if Apple was to license AMD's chips for Airport instead of the Orinoco line, that would indeed be big news about an unexpected licensee.

Shattering? No.

Is Apple relocating to Boston? I doubt it.

I don't think Apple and AMD will announce any kind of partnership/deal here.
 
Solaris runs on two CPU types

I think that if Sun can run solaris on x86 machines and SPARCs, that Apple could easily have an OS that runs on both platforms. I would hope that a properly written application would run just fine with either system. Apple would have to rewrite the microkernel, and update some things like the IOkit, but I would think it would be a fairly smooth thing. It would certainly put more pressure on Motorola, if one of their OEMs stopped buying as many chips.
 
Re: Solaris runs on two CPU types

Originally posted by peterjhill
I think that if Sun can run solaris on x86 machines and SPARCs, that Apple could easily have an OS that runs on both platforms. I would hope that a properly written application would run just fine with either system. Apple would have to rewrite the microkernel, and update some things like the IOkit, but I would think it would be a fairly smooth thing. It would certainly put more pressure on Motorola, if one of their OEMs stopped buying as many chips.
And Linux runs on a million different CPUs. Let's port Mac OS X to every single CPU Linux supports! :rolleyes: :p
 
The shattering news is that Apple will lower the price of the powermac to about $200 or $250 above a similar spec brand name PC. Or maybe not. If they know they will lose the processor race for the next few years, they will lower prices. If they have a new chip to announce, they will keep the prices the same and announce a chip that really stands up to the PC chips.
 
I think apple should definitely consider this, and let motorola know
that they are serious about this, and get moto to get nervous
and actually put some brains into their microprocessor
manufacturing. The more compitition, the better is what I say...
 
Re: AMD / Apple

The AMD line is Alpha derived. OSX could be rewritten/recompiled to run on AMD chips. The AMD chip could have the X86 compatibility stripped off and make it even easier for the OSX port, BUT, the 970 should be a better chip than anything used in desktop/ workstation environment and will not need a rewrite/recompile. If you read the specs and between the lines, Apple is already contracted to use the 970.
Please people, get over your PC envy or sell your Macs and actually buy and use a pc daily, then report back in 6 mos.

My guess is the AMD chipset for 802.11 and a hypertransport chipset.
 
I'm going with the WiFi thingy...new Airport base station/card thats smaller and uses less power blah de blah de blah...full rendezvous support etc would certainly make sense of all the mentions for "connectivity". Would this new chipset make Airport cards more power efficient and cheaper?

Either that or Hypertransport obviously...

I personally can't see Apple announing an x86 switch at this time, unless the machines are ready to roll tommorow and that seems very unlikely from both a manufacturing and marketing point of view.
 
It does seem sort of weird for apple to switch from moto to AMD
to IBM all in such a short period of time. I don't see it happening
even though I would like it to happen. I am not going to get a
new computer for a while, so it doesn't even matter to me...:rolleyes:
 
Screen Savers is fueling the rumor

Tonight on Screen Savers, Leo from Comdex said it was expected that Apple is the unamed partner with AMD.
 
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