Oh you’re one of those people, never mind then. Mortality rates, rates of infection etc are what matter. If you can’t tell the difference and are comparing the normal flu and car accident deaths to a global pandemic then there’s no helping you.For some perspective, from October of 2019 to April of 2020, there have been as many as 740,000 hospitalizations from the flu in the US and as many as 62,000 deaths. Where is the tracking device for the flu? Where are the flue quarantines? Where were all of the hysterical masked people?
Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates
CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.www.cdc.gov
Btw, flu vaccine is not even 50% effective, so you can't really count on that to protect you: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm
1.35 million die each year worldwide from car accidents, why don't we make speed limits everywhere 10 miles per hour? https://policyadvice.net/car-insurance/insights/how-many-people-die-in-car-accidents/ Maybe google and apple can get together and figure out how to do that.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple and Google Launch COVID-19 Exposure Notification API, Over 20 Countries Have Requested and Received Access
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I cited actual numbers from legitimate sources. If you don't want to believe that this has turned into a combination of entities trying make money off of the situation and entities trying to use it for political purposes -- as well as the media fanning the flames for click bait -- I guess actual numbers and facts won't matter to you.
My point about car accident deaths that you missed is that we don't really care about saving every person, if we did something like more restrictive speed limits would certainly do that. Where is the push from Google, Apple, CNN, etc for that?
Last edited:
You didn’t really just say the flu is treatable and isn’t lethal did you? I’m gonna assume you’re 7 years old and no prior education or concept of reality.
Each year up to 650,000 people (almost twice the number of covid deaths) die per year worldwide from the flu with up to 5 million cases. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal)
To me, this is the biggest article of the week. Two major powerhouse ‘tech manufacturers’ coming together and giving the necessary tools for us to move forward given C/19 Will always be with us no matter what, but if we can be proactive about it by having resources like ‘notification exposure’, And further educating others around us how to utilize this tool, the better off we will be in our Communities.
Yes, people die of the flu, but not on the scale of Covid19 (I meant to imply it's not as lethal mortality wise). I poorly wrote that and I apologize. But it is far more treatable then covid is, which has no kind of vaccine or over the counter remedies in comparison to the flu as well, which is also what I meant but didn't elaborate on either.
This is just wrong. According to the data coming out from USC, Stanford, New York, Dade County, Pennsylvania, etc., coronavirus infections are much much more prevalent than previously reported, and death rates may be artificially inflated.
Early antibody testing suggests COVID-19 infections in L.A. County greatly exceed documented cases
USC and L.A. County Department of Public Health officials have released the preliminary results of their antibody tests, which show a surprising number of residents have been infected with the coronavirus.
New York Finds Virus Marker in 13.9%, Suggesting Wide Spread
A New York study seeking to measure the spread of the new coronavirus found that 13.9% of 3,000 people tested across the state had signs of the virus, one of the biggest U.S. reviews to date.
Iceland lab's testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases have no symptoms
There's a lot about Iceland that other countries could envy: Its spectacular natural surroundings, its place among the world's happiest countries, and, now, its large-scale testing for the novel coronavirus, which could influence how the world understands the outbreak.
Pa. removes more than 200 deaths from official coronavirus count as questions mount about reporting process, data accuracy
The past five days have been a roller coaster of confusion involving the state health department, marred by retracted statements, reporting lags, and angry coroners.
Up to 650 000 people die of respiratory diseases linked to seasonal flu each year
Up to 650 000 deaths annually are associated with respiratory diseases from seasonal influenza, according to new estimates by the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (US-CDC), WHO and global health partners.
Miami-Dade has tens of thousands of missed coronavirus infections, UM survey finds
About 6 percent of Miami-Dade’s population — about 165,000 residents — have antibodies indicating a past infection by the novel coronavirus, dwarfing the state health department’s tally of about 10,600 cases, according to preliminary study results announced by University of Miami researchers.
There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
Opinion | Do Lockdowns Save Many Lives? In Most Places, the Data Say No
The speed with which officials shuttered the economy appears not to be a factor in Covid deaths.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/50-percent-of-people-with-covid19-not-aware-have-virus
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/03/change-to-death-certificates-could-boost-covid19-counts
Last edited:
It's kinda sad that neither Apple or Google would have been willing to come up with this API and functionality in their mobile OS's before CV19 broke out because if you'd gone to them a few years back and said "hey, here's a great idea. It'll save 1,000 of lives at some future point in time", they'd have said no.
Their primary reason for saying no would have been that they'd (rightly) fear a general misconception that this was really some big brother government attempt at tracking everyone.
Your government already tracks you using cell tower triangulation. It's just not accurate enough for CV19 contact tracing.
Their primary reason for saying no would have been that they'd (rightly) fear a general misconception that this was really some big brother government attempt at tracking everyone.
Your government already tracks you using cell tower triangulation. It's just not accurate enough for CV19 contact tracing.
Not this again.
Yes, the flu can kill 62,000 people in a year, but Covid-19 killed 90,000 in just 3 months, and that's with a national lockdown that does severe harm to the economy. Without the lockdown, the numbers would be even higher, the healthcare system would be overwhelmed, and there would be no hope of reopening at least parts of the economy. We have to use every measure we can to fight this thing, and contact tracing is one of the few instruments we currently have.
Not this again.
The flu killed 62,000 people this flu season in six months. There is no evidence that the lockdown has prevented significant deaths.
There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.
Opinion | Do Lockdowns Save Many Lives? In Most Places, the Data Say No
The speed with which officials shuttered the economy appears not to be a factor in Covid deaths.
There are all kinds of things we can do to prevent deaths, I mentioned lockdowns and masks during flu season and more restrictive speed limits, and I'll bet you can think of some too. Why aren't we doing those if every life is important.
Last edited:
No, it has killed 62,000 in an entire year. It's a seasonal disease. You can't just selectively count the months were it's prevalent and then compare it to Covid-19, which is obviously not limited to the flu season.
Geez. Have you somehow missed all the stats and curves? The lockdowns absolutely worked, and are the only thing that keeps the case numbers from growing exponentially like they did before the lockdowns.
Go back and look at the number of people with covid antibodies in places like California, (Stanford and USC study), New York and Dade County Florida, etc.. The lockdowns didn't do much to prevent exposure in those areas, that's for sure.
Btw, here is some good news I'm sure you won't want to hear: https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-...s-not-spread-easily-via-contaminated-surfaces
Right. And I guess New York hospitals teetering on the brink of collapse before the lockdowns, and slowly stabilizing afterwards was just a hallucination. You should listen to experts, not the idiot talking heads on Fox News.
Where are all those hospitals in the US -- there must have been a lot of them? Actually hospitals have been laying people off and more people are dying because they are not getting routine health care during this fiasco and from suicide from losing their jobs, and retirement savings. Why are you not advocating for flu lockdowns and 20 mph speed limits, because we know that would save lives?
Cash-starved hospitals and doctor groups cut staff amid pandemic
Remaining workers face longer hoursand in some cases, pay cuts and reduced benefits.
www.washingtonpost.com
Unfortunately I don't think that's going to be the takeaway. Props to Apple and Google for coming up with a framework, but the reliance on apps that are developed and maintained by local governments is a HUGE limitation. As of right now this is a system that cannot the used by anyone. I hope that changes in the future, but the thought of each US state developing their own app that will in all likelyhood user different verification methods and identifiers does not fill me with confidence. The fact that none of these apps seem to be available at launch makes me think this is going to be a drawn out process.
You are everything that is wrong with society in the Trump era. You believe crazy conspiracy theories, such as that the wordwide lockdowns are somehow instigated by a cabal of evil geniuses for their own ends, while denying what's right in front of your eyes. Discussion useless.
For some perspective, from October of 2019 to April of 2020, there have been as many as 740,000 hospitalizations from the flu in the US and as many as 62,000 deaths. Where is the tracking device for the flu? Where are the flue quarantines? Where were all of the hysterical masked people?
Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates
CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.
Btw, flu vaccine is not even 50% effective, so you can't count on that to protect you: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm
1.35 million die each year worldwide from car accidents, why don't we make speed limits everywhere 10 miles per hour? https://policyadvice.net/car-insurance/insights/how-many-people-die-in-car-accidents/ Maybe google and apple can get together and figure out how to do that.
That isn't perspective, those people died of the flu AND we also had 90,000+ (as of today) people die of Coronavirus in the United States. WTF are you talking about? We had something appear that killed 90,000 people in the United States alone that didn't exist in this country 6 months ago.
Car accidents!1.35 million die in car accidents a year. What is that as a percentage of the number of people that get into a car daily? Best guess? 2.6 Billion a DAY. https://www.quora.com/How-many-car-journeys-are-made-globally-every-day
So, let's see... that makes it roughly 949,000,000,000 car trips annually.
SO! 1,350,000/949,000,000,000 = 0.00000142255 ... or 0.000142255% mortality rate for riding in a car.
In other words, NOBODY WOULD RIDE IN A CAR IF YOU HAD THE SAME CHANCE OF DEATH AS YOU DO WITH COVID-19!
How is that for perspective?
The flu is not “treatable”. The flu has a vaccine that is around 30% effective on good years but last year was about 6% effective. Once you have the flu, there is no treatment unless of course you get tested within 72 hours of first symptoms(which are the same symptoms of the common cold) and then you can take tamiflu which only reduces the severity and longevity of the symptoms but still isn’t 100% effective. The flu kills upwards of 60K people a year in the US and that’s WITH a vaccine. You cannot look at the numbers for COVID related deaths because they are simply not accurate. It’s no secret that Medicaid pays $13,000 for a COVID death and around $3k for pneumonia. That’s common knowledge. It’s also common knowledge that Dr Brix states that they are taking a very “liberal” approach to labeling COVID as the cause of death. This is certainly another serious coronavirus that will cause many deaths each year, but to assume that we are going to get a magical vaccine when even the flu vaccine isn’t 100% effective is naïve. This might just be something we will have to live with. Just like the flu, death is unfortunately inevitable.
How many people died of the Spanish Flu last year? Even if everything you’re saying is true, and you’re not actually an idiot, all the more reason for a privacy focused way of contact tracing. We can use it for the flu too!
In response to Alfred E. Neumann “What, Me Worry?” who seems to be trolling us with large font, Fox Fake News and rightwing sources...
His effort at reductio ad absurdum is an abject failure!
Flu is serious; and it is deadly; we should do social distancing and wear masks during flu season, too (we're going to have to do it this fall and winter, anyway, when the second COVID-19 wave hits). We also should provide better protection for those in high risk groups during the flu season and limit the spread of the flu; we need a massive public education campaign about how serious and deadly flu is; and we need a massive investment to improve flu vaccines.
Vehicular deaths are out of control, too. Strict enforcement of *existing* speed limits and laws against tailgating — along with much tougher DWI sentencing and license revocation would make a huge difference, especially as something like half the deadly car accidents involve alcohol or speeding; plus, many involve younger drivers, so action needs to be taken there, too. (The nonsensical example of lowering speed limits to 10 mph is a classic case of hyperbole and a strawman argument gone wrong!)
COVID-19 is horrific and far more lethal than the flu. Anyone who denies that needs to read real news and take a couple of courses in basic statistics, logical reasoning, and introductory epidemiology. (They could benefit from a course in public health policy, too.)
Quarantining and stay-at-home orders have worked. In places where they were not issued or not enforced, there have already been spikes in cases and major hot spots and outbreaks. That's true in states where governors were soft on the virus and reopened too soon, without following CDC guidelines. The numbers are rising and the problem is going to get worse as people from neighboring states cross lines and spread the virus elsewhere. Those governors are even firing health directors and willfully massaging data and changing expert statistics — rearranging timelines, closing down offices, and tossing out cases to make the numbers look better.
——————————
By the way, I just discovered a bug in the MacRumors software. I was drafting the above comment, then decided against posting it. So, I logged out (without closing the textbox in which the draft was), and MR posted it, anyway!
I only discovered the bug when I moments later decided that such a laundry list of propaganda should be countered and logged back in.
Imagine my surprise when I discovered that MacRumors had already posted it, anyway, even though I had not clicked Post!
On a related note, I recommend ACORN TV's multicultural family drama “Indian Doctor” that was produced back in 2010; 2012 and 2013. It takes place in a Welsh community. The show's pretty good, even often fun and delightful (Season 1 opened well), but it never lived up to its potential. I mention it, though, because Season 2 is all about a smallpox epidemic in the village and is scientifically grounded and eerily prescient! All the major things we've been experiencing — political and religious cross currents, rebelling against medical authority, ignorance, the need for us to rely on scientific and public health experts, and even 6' distancing are all there.
We should have and could have been better prepared!
who seems to be trolling us with large font, Fox Fake News and rightwing sources...His effort at reductio ad absurdum is an abject failure!
Flu is serious; and it is deadly; we should do social distancing and wear masks during flu season, too (we're going to have to do it this fall and winter, anyway, when the second COVID-19 wave hits). We also should provide better protection for those in high risk groups during the flu season and limit the spread of the flu; we need a massive public education campaign about how serious and deadly flu is; and we need a massive investment to improve flu vaccines.
Vehicular deaths are out of control, too. Strict enforcement of *existing* speed limits and laws against tailgating — along with much tougher DWI sentencing and license revocation would make a huge difference, especially as something like half the deadly car accidents involve alcohol or speeding; plus, many involve younger drivers, so action needs to be taken there, too. (The nonsensical example of lowering speed limits to 10 mph is a classic case of hyperbole and a strawman argument gone wrong!)
COVID-19 is horrific and far more lethal than the flu. Anyone who denies that needs to read real news and take a couple of courses in basic statistics, logical reasoning, and introductory epidemiology. (They could benefit from a course in public health policy, too.)
Quarantining and stay-at-home orders have worked. In places where they were not issued or not enforced, there have already been spikes in cases and major hot spots and outbreaks. That's true in states where governors were soft on the virus and reopened too soon, without following CDC guidelines. The numbers are rising and the problem is going to get worse as people from neighboring states cross lines and spread the virus elsewhere. Those governors are even firing health directors and willfully massaging data and changing expert statistics — rearranging timelines, closing down offices, and tossing out cases to make the numbers look better.
——————————
By the way, I just discovered a bug in the MacRumors software. I was drafting the above comment, then decided against posting it. So, I logged out (without closing the textbox in which the draft was), and MR posted it, anyway!
I only discovered the bug when I moments later decided that such a laundry list of propaganda should be countered and logged back in.
Imagine my surprise when I discovered that MacRumors had already posted it, anyway, even though I had not clicked Post!
On a related note, I recommend ACORN TV's multicultural family drama “Indian Doctor” that was produced back in 2010; 2012 and 2013. It takes place in a Welsh community. The show's pretty good, even often fun and delightful (Season 1 opened well), but it never lived up to its potential. I mention it, though, because Season 2 is all about a smallpox epidemic in the village and is scientifically grounded and eerily prescient! All the major things we've been experiencing — political and religious cross currents, rebelling against medical authority, ignorance, the need for us to rely on scientific and public health experts, and even 6' distancing are all there.
We should have and could have been better prepared!
Last edited:
Too bad everyone will want to turn it off, making this whole endeavor essentially useless.
I hope I am wrong, though. I think contact tracing will be extremely helpful but it will require people to participate and not be so paranoid.
I hope I am wrong, though. I think contact tracing will be extremely helpful but it will require people to participate and not be so paranoid.
So for you it is a quantitative issue not a qualitative issue? Nearly 70k dying from the flu wouldn't warrant masks, distancing, and lockdowns, but 100k would? Do you not care about the people that die from flu? Clearly some distancing and lockdowns would save lives. This doesn't fit your political narrative, I'm quite sure, though.
[automerge]1590015360[/automerge]
In response to Alfred E. Neumann “What, Me Worry?”
If that was directed towards me, I cited Washington Post, Bloomberg, CNN, WHO, etc... Where is your authority?
Last edited:
