Apple and Google Launch COVID-19 Exposure Notification API, Over 20 Countries Have Requested and Received Access

[ian87w]

I have reservation about this.
Seems like it relies on people updating their devices, download the authorized app, opt in and input the data themselves. What's the risk for false positives? Eg. a prankster can input his/her data as positive, then roam around the neighborhood. Add an overly paranoid people or two, it can be disastrous. I'm probably being overly negative, but the scenario is possible, no?

For countries with nationalized health care database, wouldn't it make more sense for the data to be inputted by the health care provider that diagnosed the individual? Or will that be another can of worms?

 

[Brandhouse]

I have reservation about this.
Seems like it relies on people updating their devices, download the authorized app, opt in and input the data themselves. What's the risk for false positives? Eg. a prankster can input his/her data as positive, then roam around the neighborhood. Add an overly paranoid people or two, it can be disastrous. I'm probably being overly negative, but the scenario is possible, no?

For countries with nationalized health care database, wouldn't it make more sense for the data to be inputted by the health care provider that diagnosed the individual? Or will that be another can of worms?

Fair comments ian87. Australia launched its own app recently and it's already showing results of successfully using contact tracing. It's a possible scenario, but you'd hope that the most likely use case is those who download it are doing it for the intent that app was created in the first case.

 

[Trik]

I have reservation about this.
Seems like it relies on people updating their devices, download the authorized app, opt in and input the data themselves. What's the risk for false positives? Eg. a prankster can input his/her data as positive, then roam around the neighborhood. Add an overly paranoid people or two, it can be disastrous. I'm probably being overly negative, but the scenario is possible, no?

For countries with nationalized health care database, wouldn't it make more sense for the data to be inputted by the health care provider that diagnosed the individual? Or will that be another can of worms?

You can’t prank, it requires a unique one time use code from the testing site you used to confirm you are positive for Covid-19.

 

[ncc1701d]

Unless I’m not understanding - I think Apple and google should have made a primary app and individual health departments access that, not the other way round. It doesn’t help international travelers and possibly even interstate travelers unless they are running each country and states app.

 

[ian87w]

You can’t prank, it requires a unique one time use code from the testing site you used to confirm you are positive for Covid-19.

Okay I didn't know that. Thanks for the additional info. So if you are tested by a participating institution, you will be given a "token" code? Good to know.

Then that leaves it up to the individual to opt in. In a nation with a nationalized healthcare system, wouldn't it be more prudent for the diagnosing provider to just input the data?

 

[7149041]

I want to see Apple remove the API and not allow it to be "repurposed".

There is a big fat switch turning the whole thing off. If they let me, I'll keep it on forever. This is not the last outbreak we will see - and I live in Asia.

 

[BuffaloTF]

For some perspective, from October of 2019 to April of 2020, there have been as many as 740,000 hospitalizations from the flu in the US and as many as 62,000 deaths. Where is the tracking device for the flu? Where are the flue quarantines? Where were all of the hysterical masked people?

Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates

CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

Btw, flu vaccine is not even 50% effective, so you can't count on that to protect you: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm

1.35 million die each year worldwide from car accidents, why don't we make speed limits everywhere 10 miles per hour? https://policyadvice.net/car-insurance/insights/how-many-people-die-in-car-accidents/ Maybe google and apple can get together and figure out how to do that.

...There absolutely is tracking for the flu, gathered and compiled by your county Department of Health...

https://nyshc.health.ny.gov/web/nyapd/new-york-state-flu-tracker

There's New York's.

People do wear masks in flu season. And there are quarantines on small scales when needed.

Sorry about your theory. A quick Google search would've cleared up any confusion.

As for cars and speed limits, we do lower speed limits considerably in densely populated areas. And even more, like to your proposed 10 mph, in areas where those not yet wise to cars and roads - like school zones - would have potential to be in the roadway without checking.

And the reason we do these things, is because of the cost to society when one gets the flu, or into a car accident, and -- in case you haven't seen the unemployment numbers -- covid 19. It costs society tens of thousands of dollars for a single car accident, and that's one of the cheapest public incidents there is.

 

[Saturn007]

Buffalo, you're absolutely right!

• Anyone who claims that COVID-19 is less serious and less deadly than the typical seasonal flu — or even similar in its severity — is clearly cherry-picking evidence and selectively reading news stories — and doing so to fit his preferred, preconceived position.

• Anyone who suggests that the quarantining, stay-at-home orders, and wearing masks is an overreaction, especially because we in the U.S. don’t do it for the flu, has it EXACTLY BACKWARDS! We need safe distancing and mask wearing during flu season here, too. The typical flu is quite serious and we are killing tens of thousands of people by not practicing good public health during the flu season as well.

• Anyone who mocks current public health efforts— which have proven so effective — by arguing that, if we really cared about lives, we should lower the speed limit to *10 mph* is being silly and sophomoric, trafficking in a strawman argument, and not engaging in reasoned debate.

The analogy breaks down, in any case. Just because we need to do more to address traffic fatalities is no reason to abandon strong, effective public health efforts now. These measures are buying us time, are part of a longer-lasting vanquishing of the virus, and can let us eventually return to normal. In contrast, lowering the speed limit temporarily to 10 mph would have no *lasting* impact and would not put an end to most fatalities once we returned to 55 mph.​

​

Instead we need to step up our efforts in what works — making vehicles safer; mandating new safety features; reducing traffic and designing pedestrian-centered cities; increasing the use of mass transit; deploying autonomous vehicles; improving driver's education; strongly enforcing existing speed limits (and even lowering some by 5-10 mph); cracking down harder on speeders, drunk drivers, tailgaters, and young offenders, etc. All that would substantially lower traffic fatalities.​

The second wave of COVID-19 cases is coming — all because of sel–centered myopic perspectives, a far too quick reopening of the economy, and the failure of certain state leaders and one national one to take the matter seriously and listen to the advice of public health experts and epidemiologists.

Alas, the Apple-Google API exposure notification system will be of little help. It is rife with flaws, its take up rate will be low, and public health experts have already pointed out its deep weaknesses.

 

[dilbert99]

I love this and will be using it dispute everyone freaking out about there privacy being invade (those people know nothing about how it works OBVIOUSLY).

I use the COVID-19 app in my country. People's trust is not about how the app works but how a piece of technology can be misused.

But I’m going to be a bit contentious here and say that 15mins is way to long. If someone coughed near me I would be infected in seconds -

I'm not so sure they know exactly how long it takes. But if someone coughs, you have a greater chance of picking up from touching a surface they cough on then touch your face than you do from droplets in the air, except from maybe coughing on public transport.

if I hug a friend (I know I’m not supposed to but people are stupid) I could be infected.

Well if you live in the UK or the US, maybe you are one of the people spreading it if you are going around hugging people. Just think of the people who may lose their life as a result, not from your choice to hug who you want but from the people that you transmit it to unknowingly after that.

I live in a country where there are many days with no new infections. It still puzzles me as to what that actually means from the point of view of where is the virus if there are no new infections, for example say there were no new positive tests in 3 weeks. The virus has not disappeared and new cases can still arise meaning that the virus has the ability to be carried in a person for long periods or can live on some kinds of surface for long periods. Or it is doing the rounds without many people showing symptoms.

 

[V_Man]

I have warmed to this idea as time has gone on. However...once we have the situation under control to the point where this would no longer be necessary...I want to see Apple remove the API and not allow it to be "repurposed". Whether you want to see it or not, allowing this even to begin with for this situation is a slippery slope. When you consider how much Apple always touts their respect for privacy and security...they have a LOT to lose here if something goes wrong.

I trust that Apple made it as secure as possible and kept privacy as a priority. I do not, however...trust the security and privacy of an app that will utilize this...especially one created by a state (especially mine, if they go that route. Exhibit A...unemployment recently revealed private information for countless people) or anyone connected at the federal level. This API would be like a wet-dream to pretty much ALL of the leadership in my state. If my state were to develop an app using this...they can kiss my ass.

The API will never be pulled. We all know that. Big brother for the win.
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Exactly. I've been looking at things a bit differently. I'm not denying the severity of the situation. I'm in healthcare. I've seen all there is to see with this. It ain't pretty. But think about when people talk about the climate. The argument is always "think about the world we're making for our children and grandchildren. If that world scares you, then we're doing something wrong".

Well...look at the world we are allowing our fear to create right now. We are allowing a pretty scary level of control. Governments don't have a good history of relinquishing control once they have it. If people are so worried about the world we're creating for future generations...they need to look at the one we're creating right now. We are willingly creating a world of constant surveillance and tracking "for the greater good". We've heard that "for the greater good" countless times in the past. And quite a few times...it wasn't "good". There will be a time in the future where we will look back on the things we allowed to be done now and say to ourselves "maybe we shouldn't have done that". Give an inch...they go a mile.
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Key word..."volunteering". It may be voluntary right now. But someone will find a way to make it "mandatory". (I could see my governor making things like this mandatory, simply because he's a power hungry douchebag who is LITERALLY threatening anyone and everyone who "defies" him. And yes..."defies" him are his actual words). Which is exactly why I want to see it removed when the situation improves enough to warrant that.

I trust Apple's API. I don't trust some of the people who will be utilizing it. It is plenty possible to fit into both of those categories. Especially because I work in healthcare. I've seen, firsthand, some pretty sketchy **** from my state's health department. So when the release notes mention "API to support COVID-19 contact tracing apps from public health authorities"...I will be skeptical.

Come on man. Apple built it, for some that is all they need to know. Apple could take their home thru eminent domain And they would come up with a spin that Apple was right to do it.

 

[dilbert99]

Anyone who claims that COVID-19 is less serious and less deadly than the typical seasonal flu

I wonder what the ratio of apple fans is that claim the opposite. I would have thought that Apple fans were above average intellect but reading some of these threads, I'm not so sure.

Some people are just idiots a bit like the people that say the flu vaccine might be good against COVID-19 or that UV light shone inside your body kills it, or maybe injecting disinfectant will kill it or that Hydroxy-Chloroquine is a great idea because you heard nice things about it.

I think the majority of people understand and like anything, it is the small but vocal minority that everyone hears. So keep the faith in humanity...Darwin will choose who to keep ;-)

 

[planteater]

.

 

[I7guy]

I wonder what the ratio of apple fans is that claim the opposite. I would have thought that Apple fans were above average intellect but reading some of these threads, I'm not so sure.

Some people are just idiots a bit like the people that say the flu vaccine might be good against COVID-19 or that UV light shone inside your body kills it, or maybe injecting disinfectant will kill it or that Hydroxy-Chloroquine is a great idea because you heard nice things about it.

I think the majority of people understand and like anything, it is the small but vocal minority that everyone hears. So keep the faith in humanity...Darwin will choose who to keep ;-)

Tough to tell, the critics claim what you are saying, but of themselves reading some of these thoughts, makes me wonder.

The OP was right, people are cherry picking evidence to prove their point. And even given the alleged downside of this API, knowing something (meaning in contact with a potential infection) is better than knowing nothing.

 

[Tor Eckman]

...There absolutely is tracking for the flu, gathered and compiled by your county Department of Health...

https://nyshc.health.ny.gov/web/nyapd/new-york-state-flu-tracker

There's New York's.

People do wear masks in flu season. And there are quarantines on small scales when needed.

Sorry about your theory. A quick Google search would've cleared up any confusion.

As for cars and speed limits, we do lower speed limits considerably in densely populated areas. And even more, like to your proposed 10 mph, in areas where those not yet wise to cars and roads - like school zones - would have potential to be in the roadway without checking.

And the reason we do these things, is because of the cost to society when one gets the flu, or into a car accident, and -- in case you haven't seen the unemployment numbers -- covid 19. It costs society tens of thousands of dollars for a single car accident, and that's one of the cheapest public incidents there is.

I don't think I ever said there was no tracking for the flu, but apple and google certainly have not pooled their resources to develop a tracking app/device they want everyone to use, so I'm not sure what your point is. I was in the grocery store yesterday and 2/3 of the people and all of the employees had on masks and most gloves -- and that's the case in most of the country right now. We clearly need to be doing exactly that every flu season too, right? As far as the lockdowns and quarantines, it's good to know we are doing this to mass amounts of healthy non sick people of all ages during flu season, thank you for information -- we need to do more, though, to prevent some of the 62k deaths through April this flu season. Btw, the speed limit example is an analogy illustrating that we are not doing everything we can to save every life and we never will. The biggest cost to society for 19 is the lockdowns of business and healthy people. Nearly 40 million unemployed and counting. Btw, suicides are up and treatable health condition related deaths are up due to 19 restrictions. I cited links for that info above if you are interested.

 

[BuffaloTF]

I don't think I ever said there was no tracking for the flu, but apple and google certainly have not pooled their resources to develop a tracking app/device they want everyone to use, so I'm not sure what your point is. I was in the grocery store yesterday and 2/3 of the people and all of the employees had on masks and most gloves -- and that's the case in most of the country right now. We clearly need to be doing exactly that every flu season too. As far as the lockdowns and quarantines, it's good to know we are doing this to healthy non sick people during flu season, thank you for information -- we need to do more, though to prevent some of the 62k deaths through April this flu season. Btw, the speed limit example is an analogy illustrating that we are not doing everything we can to save every life and we never will. The biggest cost to society for 19 is the lockdowns of business and healthy people. Nearly 40 million unemployed and counting. Btw, suicides are up and treatable health condition related deaths are up due to 19 restrictions. I cited links for that info above if you are interested.

The questions you posed
**Where is the tracking device for the flu?**
**Where are the flue quarantines?**
**Where were all of the hysterical masked people?**

All three of those exist.

-The tracking device is a computer, where a human logs all of the data.
-The "flue" quarantines are all over the place. An airplane being one that hit the news a few years back. Cruise ships get them all the time. Nursing homes and hospitals get quarantined often. They're shorter periods of time and localized, a week at most.
-People wear masks in locations of flu outbreaks. It's standard droplet precaution and just the smart thing to do. Go into other countries and they just wear them, period, all flu season. We have poor discipline here.

The transmission rate for this is considerably higher. The fatality rate is many orders of magnitude higher. There's NO VACCINE and no antibodies from prior infections to assist the body.

62000 deaths for a year with a disease that is everywhere already in a year the vaccine totally missed the mark and mutates every year, with scientists working 2 years in advance to map out what they believe the mutations will be so a mass produced vaccine can be ready in advance of that coming season.

We're approaching 100,000 for 3 months for a disease that needed to travel and we put all these restrictions in place you're saying we don't do for the flu ... and don't know yet if it's going to mutate and people are equating it to being similar to the flu still? Asinine.

This isn't the flu. It isn't anywhere close to the flu. Quit comparing it to the flu. If we shut down the nation at the start of the flu season for a week, there'd be next to zero flu cases. This isn't a flu, people can't stress that enough apparently.

 

[Mr. Heckles]

What app are people using for this?

 

[Rigby]

But I’m going to be a bit contentious here and say that 15mins is way to long. If someone coughed near me I would be infected in seconds - if I hug a friend (I know I’m not supposed to but people are stupid) I could be infected. It should be a matter of minutes and you get a warning. 15 mins seriously?

The API allows the app to specify the relationship between exposure duration and infection risk. So it's not just using a fixed value of 15 minutes. The idea is that health authorities like the CDC can adjust the value over time in their apps as they learn more about how the infection spreads to find a good balance between false positives/negatives and sensitivity.

 

[Ben...]

Despite being “warmed up to this idea”, you still don’t understand how this works. The API is useless to governments if people aren’t reporting COVID-19 positive results in the app, which they of course wouldn’t be doing in the future if there are no infections. So the API cannot be repurposed because nobody will be volunteering the information, hence they get no data.

This API was brilliantly designed. Kudos to Apple and Google.

It's not the API you have to worry about, it's the additional functionality incorporated into the government app that you have to worry about.

It would have been better if Apple and Google had created their own standalone app that worked independent of all governments and did only what this API does. Then it could even operate globally and you would not need a different app every time you crossed a border.
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I love this and will be using it dispute everyone freaking out about there privacy being invade (those people know nothing about how it works OBVIOUSLY).
But I’m going to be a bit contentious here and say that 15mins is way to long. If someone coughed near me I would be infected in seconds - if I hug a friend (I know I’m not supposed to but people are stupid) I could be infected. It should be a matter of minutes and you get a warning. 15 mins seriously? I’m not living with these strangers I’m passing them on the street or in a supermarket I haven’t seen anyone but my wife and kids for more than 15 mins in 9 weeks! It’s insane.
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YES THIS ALSO. It must be removed after a period of time!

It's not the API you have to worry about, it's the additional functionality incorporated into the government app that you have to worry about.

It would have been better if Apple and Google had created their own standalone app that worked independent of all governments and did only what this API does. Then it could even operate globally and you would not need a different app every time you crossed a border.

 

[Rigby]

It's not the API you have to worry about, it's the additional functionality incorporated into the government app that you have to worry about.

What specifically do you worry about? The API is designed to limit what information the apps can access, and Apple has stated that they will not approve apps that do things like requesting the user's location.

It would have been better if Apple and Google had created their own standalone app that worked independent of all governments and did only what this API does. Then it could even operate globally and you would not need a different app every time you crossed a border.

I think this would be very difficult, since different countries have different health laws, regulations and policies.

 

[Ben...]

Unless I’m not understanding - I think Apple and google should have made a primary app and individual health departments access that, not the other way round. It doesn’t help international travelers and possibly even interstate travelers unless they are running each country and states app.

100% agree.

It's not the API we have to worry about, it's the additional functionality incorporated into the government apps that we have to worry about.

It would have been better if Apple and Google had created their own standalone app that worked independent of all governments and did only what this API does. Then it could even operate globally and we would not need a different app every time we crossed a border.
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What specifically do you worry about? The API is designed to limit what information the apps can access, and Apple has stated that they will not approve apps that do things like requesting the user's location.
I think this would be very difficult, since different countries have different health laws, regulations and policies.

It would be simple to do globally because it does not record or even exchange identifying information.
It would effectively be benign and could never be misused.

Many of the apps in development by governments of various nations or states aren't so benign. They exchange personal identifying information with nearby devices that centralized authorities can then access.

 

[Ben...]

I love this and will be using it dispute everyone freaking out about there privacy being invade (those people know nothing about how it works OBVIOUSLY).
But I’m going to be a bit contentious here and say that 15mins is way to long. If someone coughed near me I would be infected in seconds - if I hug a friend (I know I’m not supposed to but people are stupid) I could be infected. It should be a matter of minutes and you get a warning. 15 mins seriously? I’m not living with these strangers I’m passing them on the street or in a supermarket I haven’t seen anyone but my wife and kids for more than 15 mins in 9 weeks! It’s insane.
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YES THIS ALSO. It must be removed after a period of time!

It's not the API you have to worry about, it's the additional functionality incorporated into the government app that you have to worry about.

It would have been better if Apple and Google had created their own standalone app that worked independent of all governments and did only what this API does. Then it could even operate globally and you would not need a different app every time you crossed a border.

Shame we dont get to use this as the uk government is making their own botched version that most people won’t be using... Hope it helps people in the other countries

It's not just the UK doing that.

 

[Rigby]

It would be simple to do globally because it does not record or even exchange identifying information.
It would effectively be benign and could never be misused.

This is over-simplified. Once the user shows symptoms or has received an exposure notification, they need to go to a healtcare provider to be diagnosed before they can be authorized to upload their identifiers to the public database to warn others. At that point the user will obviously no longer be anonymous. This interaction is controlled by the apps. Different countries with different healtcare systems will likely have very different procedures and regulations to handle this. Every country will have their own requirements for the app, which makes it pretty much impossible to have a globally unified app.

Many of the apps in development by governments of various nations or states aren't so benign. They exchange personal identifying information with nearby devices that centralized authorities can then access.

Those apps will not receive the entitlements required to use Apple's API because they don't meet Apple's guidelines.

 

[19callum93]

I wish the UK government would have requested Apple/Google’s API, instead of making their own app 😩

 

[fraslo]

Perfect App for totalitarian regimes!

 

[Ben...]

Fair comments ian87. Australia launched its own app recently and it's already showing results of successfully using contact tracing. It's a possible scenario, but you'd hope that the most likely use case is those who download it are doing it for the intent that app was created in the first case.

About one quarter of the Australian population downloaded it (if you believe the government figures). Pretty much everyone else distrusts the government too much to risk downloading it.

Of those that did download it many subsequently deleted it.

The app has only just had its first confirmed coronavirus case.