Apple and Google Launch COVID-19 Exposure Notification API, Over 20 Countries Have Requested and Received Access

[H.E. Pennypacker]

How many people died of the Spanish Flu last year? Even if everything you’re saying is true, and you’re not actually an idiot, all the more reason for a privacy focused way of contact tracing. We can use it for the flu too!

For your knowledge, the Spanish flu was H1N1 which to my recollection infected over a billion people worldwide around 200,000-500,000 of those died from that pandemic back in 2009-2010. You’re relying on contract tracing when some people won’t report properly and many people show no symptoms at all? You don’t really believe the info you’re giving is truly “private” 😂

 

[xander49x]

I have warmed to this idea as time has gone on. However...once we have the situation under control to the point where this would no longer be necessary...I want to see Apple remove the API and not allow it to be "repurposed". Whether you want to see it or not, allowing this even to begin with for this situation is a slippery slope. When you consider how much Apple always touts their respect for privacy and security...they have a LOT to lose here if something goes wrong.

I trust that Apple made it as secure as possible and kept privacy as a priority. I do not, however...trust the security and privacy of an app that will utilize this...especially one created by a state (especially mine, if they go that route. Exhibit A...unemployment recently revealed private information for countless people) or anyone connected at the federal level. This API would be like a wet-dream to pretty much ALL of the leadership in my state. If my state were to develop an app using this...they can kiss my ass.

you can turn it off at any time or delete the app, you have all the control.

 

[Tor Eckman]

He’s a trump supporter.

I support myself, and I understand that the whole world is political. I stopped being an ideologue years ago. This fiasco is destroying industries, crashing the stock market, and causing millions and millions of people to be unemployed. Who is going to pay the rent, the mortgages, and buy groceries, gas, clothes, etc., for everyone? I am disgusted by the overreaction to this, and even more disgusted that we keep it up even in light of facts that show the virus is not particularly dangerous except for a limited demographic. And I am challenging anyone who disagrees to explain why 70k people dead from the flu in the US this season, is not enough to justify lockdowns and quarantines every flu season from now on? I'm not being political, but you are.

 

[Brandhouse]

This is just wrong. According to the data coming out from USC, Stanford, New York, Dade County, Pennsylvania, etc., coronavirus infections are much much more prevalent than previously reported, and death rates may be artificially inflated.

Early antibody testing suggests COVID-19 infections in L.A. County greatly exceed documented cases
USC and L.A. County Department of Public Health officials have released the preliminary results of their antibody tests, which show a surprising number of residents have been infected with the coronavirus.


New York Finds Virus Marker in 13.9%, Suggesting Wide Spread
A New York study seeking to measure the spread of the new coronavirus found that 13.9% of 3,000 people tested across the state had signs of the virus, one of the biggest U.S. reviews to date.


Iceland lab's testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases have no symptoms
There's a lot about Iceland that other countries could envy: Its spectacular natural surroundings, its place among the world's happiest countries, and, now, its large-scale testing for the novel coronavirus, which could influence how the world understands the outbreak.


Pa. removes more than 200 deaths from official coronavirus count as questions mount about reporting process, data accuracy
The past five days have been a roller coaster of confusion involving the state health department, marred by retracted statements, reporting lags, and angry coroners.


Up to 650 000 people die of respiratory diseases linked to seasonal flu each year
Up to 650 000 deaths annually are associated with respiratory diseases from seasonal influenza, according to new estimates by the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (US-CDC), WHO and global health partners.

Miami-Dade has tens of thousands of missed coronavirus infections, UM survey finds
About 6 percent of Miami-Dade’s population — about 165,000 residents — have antibodies indicating a past infection by the novel coronavirus, dwarfing the state health department’s tally of about 10,600 cases, according to preliminary study results announced by University of Miami researchers.


There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.



Opinion | Do Lockdowns Save Many Lives? In Most Places, the Data Say No
The speed with which officials shuttered the economy appears not to be a factor in Covid deaths.


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/50-percent-of-people-with-covid19-not-aware-have-virus

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/03/change-to-death-certificates-could-boost-covid19-counts

No empirical evidence for lockdowns, so that's why I didn't work in Australia and New Zealand.
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I support myself, and I understand that the whole world is political. I stopped be an ideologue years ago. This fiasco is destroying industries, crashing the stock market, and causing millions and millions of people to be unemployed. Who is going to pay the rent, the mortgages, and buy groceries, gas, clothes, etc., for everyone? I am disgusted by the overreaction to this, and even more disgusted that we keep it up even in light of facts that show the virus is not particularly dangerous except for a limited demographic. And I am challenging anyone who disagrees to explain why 70k people dead from the flu in the US this season, is not enough to justify lockdowns and quarantines every flu season from now on? I'm not being political, but you are.

If you lost a loved one, they can't come back from the dead, but the economy will come back.

 

[Tor Eckman]

No empirical evidence for lockdowns, so that's why I didn't work in Australia and New Zealand.
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If you lost a loved one, they can't come back from the dead, but the economy will come back.

That was actually the title to an article about a study done by an actual college professor, cited by me above. Click the link, you may find it interesting. Btw, considering all of the people who have tested positive for the antibodies, and considering how contagious 19 is, we know there have been millions and millions of people already exposed -- look at the links to the USC and Stanford studies, the data from New York and Dade County, Florida, etc. The great majority of people never have symptoms, or symptoms so mild they don't ever get any health care. The lockdowns did not prevent mass exposure to 19 and those studies prove that.

As far as losing a loved one, what about masks and lockdowns during flu season, will you advocate for that from now on?

More to think about:

For every percentage point increase in the unemployment rate, there is about a 1.6 percent increase in the suicide rate. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/04/mental-health-coronavirus/

Many non-COVID-related deaths may be happening because people are delaying or avoiding healthcare appointments due to fears of contracting the virus. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/excess-deaths-from-covid19-pandemic#Overcoming-the-fear

"We are alarmed at what appears to be the lack of consideration for the future health of our patients," the doctors say in their letter. "The downstream health effects ... are being massively under-estimated and under-reported. This is an order of magnitude error." https://www.foxnews.com/politics/do...lth-effects-of-continued-coronavirus-shutdown


What about these people Brandhouse? Do you care?

Back to that article by an actual professor, who did actual multivariate regression analysis on actual data; He concluded with this cautionary statement "It should not be taboo to discuss these facts." He better not come around macrumors forum with that sort of nonsense!

 

[Brandhouse]

That was actually the title to an article about a study done by an actual college professor, cited by me above. Click the link, you may find it interesting. Btw, considering all of the people who have tested positive for the antibodies, and considering how contagious 19 is, we know there have been millions and millions of people already exposed -- look at the links to the USC and Stanford studies, the data from New York and Dade County, Florida, etc. The great majority of people never have symptoms, or symptoms so mild they don't ever get any health care. The lockdowns did not prevent mass exposure to 19 and those studies prove that.

As far as losing a loved one, what about masks and lockdowns during flu season, will you advocate for that from now on?

More to think about:

For every percentage point increase in the unemployment rate, there is about a 1.6 percent increase in the suicide rate. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/04/mental-health-coronavirus/

Many non-COVID-related deaths may be happening because people are delaying or avoiding healthcare appointments due to fears of contracting the virus. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/excess-deaths-from-covid19-pandemic#Overcoming-the-fear

"We are alarmed at what appears to be the lack of consideration for the future health of our patients," the doctors say in their letter. "The downstream health effects ... are being massively under-estimated and under-reported. This is an order of magnitude error." https://www.foxnews.com/politics/do...lth-effects-of-continued-coronavirus-shutdown


What about these people Brandhouse? Do you care?

Back to that article by an actual professor, who did actual multivariate regression analysis on actual data; He concluded with this cautionary statement "It should not be taboo to discuss these facts." He better not come around macrumors forum with that sort of nonsense!

Utter rubbish that lockdown didn't flatten the curve!!! Unless someone was in lockdown with an infected person, or had COVID-19 before they went into lockdown. Tell me how it didn't work then in Australia and New Zealand?! The world is watching on in horror how the US are reacting to this because of the garbage that you and other are peddling.

 

[Tor Eckman]

Utter rubbish that lockdown didn't flatten the curve!!! Unless someone was in lockdown with an infected person, or had COVID-19 before they went into lockdown. Tell me how it didn't work then in Australia and New Zealand?! The world is watching on in horror how the US are reacting to this because of the garbage that you and other are peddling.

Did you read the article? The professor compared states in the US (and other countries like Japan) and applied actual science to analyze the data and found no real difference in states that had severe lockdowns, mild lockdowns, and no lockdowns. He has challenged others to refute his conclusion -- maybe you will accept the challenge, Brandhouse?

Australia and NZ are reopening now (Australia was never as restrictive as NZ, btw, and got essentially the same result). 19 didn't go away though, so what is going to stop it from ramping back up in those countries? There is no cure and no vaccine so shouldn't they stay locked down until there is a cure/vaccine? Should we look on in horror? What if the vaccine that eventually comes is only 25 percent effective like flu vaccine many years? Stay locked down forever? Who is going to pay for all of this? Do you have any answers? Does anyone you trust have any answers?

Will you advocate for lockdowns during flu season or will you argue that those lives don't matter??

 

[Brandhouse]

Did you read the article?

Australia and NZ are reopening now (Australia was never as restrictive as NZ, btw, and got essentially the same result). 19 didn't go away though, so what is going to stop it from ramping back up in those countries? There is no cure and no vaccine so shouldn't they stay locked down until there is a cure/vaccine? Should we look on in horror? What if the vaccine that eventually comes is only 25 percent effective like flu vaccine many years? Stay locked down forever? Who is going to pay for all of this? Do you have any answers? Does anyone you trust have any answers?

Will you advocate for lockdowns during flu season or will you argue that those lives don't matter?

The flu has a vaccine, COVID-19 does not have a vaccine and it's certain that the world is going to have to adapt and change until a virus is found. If no vaccine is found, then the world will have to change. It's ridiculous to think that we can go back to normal and accept a certain leader's assertion that some people will just have to die.

What will stop it ramping up? People being responsible and vigilant. But maybe I should get a gun, protest at a governor's house that you're stealing my 2nd amendment?

 

[Tor Eckman]

The flu has a vaccine, COVID-19 does not have a vaccine and it's certain that the world is going to have to adapt and change until a virus is found. If no vaccine is found, then the world will have to change. It's ridiculous to think that we can go back to normal and accept a certain leader's assertion that some people will just have to die.

What will stop it ramping up? People being responsible and vigilant. But maybe I should get a gun, protest at a governor's house that you're stealing my 2nd amendment?

Stop being blinded by politics and look at the data. I cited a lot of it from liberal and conservative outlets and from colleges and medical experts. You are likely getting your information from editorial pages and XM radio hosts.

The flu vaccine is quite ineffective many years (less then 50 percent this season), and we know nearly 70k died in the US this flu season, do I need to cite the CDC source for you again? Why won't you call for lockdowns during flue season? Do you accept those flu deaths? Can you link all of the forum posts you made crying that we have to wear masks to stop all of the flu deaths? Did you ever think about any of this before it became politicized?

 

[0924487]

Despite being “warmed up to this idea”, you still don’t understand how this works. The API is useless to governments if people aren’t reporting COVID-19 positive results in the app, which they of course wouldn’t be doing in the future if there are no infections. So the API cannot be repurposed because nobody will be volunteering the information, hence they get no data.

This API was brilliantly designed. Kudos to Apple and Google.

It gives away an ephemeral social web, and the strength of this web can be used to predict riots and other potential social dynamics.
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The flu vaccine is quite ineffective many years, and we know nearly 70k died in the US this flu season, do I need to cite the CDC source for you again? Why won't you call for lockdowns during flue season? Do you accept those flu deaths?

I think most people who died in those flu seasons are either not vaccinated or are dying for other reasons anyway.

I had a really bad flu a few years ago, and the year after I got my flu shot, and I haven't been sick for any cold or flu-related reasons at all after I got my flu shot. I even skipped a year and I'm still fine.

Flu shots do work when the potential flu viral strain is relatively stable and does not mutate every few months. We don't know if this is the case for COVID-19 yet. I don't think it will be a stable virus given how global it is, and how isolated we are. I think the virus will split off in each region and mutate in separate ways, which makes it more difficult to develop a working vaccine, we may need more than one shot to have full-spectrum protection.

 

[Tor Eckman]

I think most people who died in those flu seasons are either not vaccinated or are dying for other reasons anyway.

I had a really bad flu a few years ago, and the year after I got my flu shot, and I haven't been sick for any cold or flu-related reasons at all after I got my flu shot. I even skipped a year and I'm still fine.

Flu shots do work when the potential flu viral strain is relatively stable and does not mutate every few months. We don't know if this is the case for COVID-19 yet. I don't think it will be a stable virus given how global it is, and how isolated we are. I think the virus will split off in each region and mutate in separate ways, which makes it more difficult to develop a working vaccine, we may need more than one shot to have full-spectrum protection.

It is a fact that the flu vaccine is less than 50 percent effective almost every season. So there are likely many people dying who were vaccinated. And there are people who simply will not get the vaccine and will not vaccinate their children. As far as people dying from other conditions with the flu, the overwhelming majority of 19 deaths include comorbidities too. At any rate if lockdowns are preventing 19 deaths then why shouldn't they be implemented during flu season too to prevent flu deaths.

If we do not have a very effective 19 vaccine, then what? Long term? Brandhouse has told us we will have a new normal and the world will have to change, but he has failed to tell us how; He as also failed to tell us why we shouldn't lower speed limits when that would clearly save many lives. How many preventable deaths have to occur before it's immoral and requires a new normal? 62k flu deaths this year is not enough so we know that, and 1.35 million car wreck deaths worldwide is not enough? What is the number?

 

[0924487]

It is a fact that the flu vaccine is less than 50 percent effective almost every season. So there are likely many people dying who were vaccinated. And there are people who simply will not get the vaccine and will not vaccinate their children. At any rate if lockdowns are preventing 19 deaths then why shouldn't they be implemented during flu season too to prevent flu deaths.

If we do not have a very effective 19 vaccine, then what? Long term?

If I have the power I would do what China did for Wuhan. Lockdown 1000% for 21 days, pour in more resources than you would normally budget for 20 years worth of medical care funding, mobilize all doctors in the country and military medics, and army corps of engineers. Then it will drop to 5% or less pretty quickly just like China. Then life can be back to normal for everyone, just like what is like in China right now.

Debating and dragging along will only bankrupt all of us.

 

[Tor Eckman]

If I have the power I would do what China did for Wuhan. Lockdown 1000% for 21 days, pour in more resources than you would normally budget for 20 years worth of medical care funding, mobilize all doctors in the country and military medics, and army corps of engineers. Then it will drop to 5% or less pretty quickly just like China. Then life can be back to normal for everyone, just like what is like in China right now.

Debating and dragging along will only bankrupt all of us.

China is apparently under a second wave:

More than 100 million people in China face new lockdown as second wave of COVID-19 cases emerge

Nearly 108 million people in China's Jilin province could be forced back into lockdown after a growing group of new coronavirus infections triggered a backslide in the nation's push to return to normal.

www.fox5dc.com

Curious if you would, in addition to locking (many many healthy) people in their homes at gunpoint, allow citizens to travel all over rest of the world infecting them before disclosing information about the virus?

 

[Jakewilk]

Is this a free api? If so I really can’t see any reason not to use it

 

[Tor Eckman]

Is this a free api? If so I really can’t see any reason not to use it

It could cause a false sense of safety. I was at Wal Mart today and it looked like black friday but no problem visiting grandma tonight because my app didn't go off. Opps, turns out I walked by 5 people with 19 that didn't even know they have it because up to 80 percent of people infected never have symptoms, and 2 people that have it and didn't tell the app. Oh well...

 

[Trik]

Stop being blinded by politics and look at the data. I cited a lot of it from liberal and conservative outlets and from colleges and medical experts. You are likely getting your information from editorial pages and XM radio hosts.

The flu vaccine is quite ineffective many years (less then 50 percent this season), and we know nearly 70k died in the US this flu season, do I need to cite the CDC source for you again? Why won't you call for lockdowns during flue season? Do you accept those flu deaths? Can you link all of the forum posts you made crying that we have to wear masks to stop all of the flu deaths? Did you ever think about any of this before it became politicized?

Are you anti vaccine in general? Measles, mumps, rubella, etc?

If a peer reviewed article comes out saying they have a 90% effective vaccine for Covid-19 sometime over the next 24 months, will you take it?

What do you do for a living? I work in IT Security / Privacy, have read the API documentation at length, and yes, I do believe the way it is implemented manages to protect end user privacy while also providing another avenue for contact tracing as we attempt to open up the economy so you can get back to studying virology at Trump University.

 

[Tor Eckman]

Are you anti vaccine in general? Measles, mumps, rubella, etc?

If a peer reviewed article comes out saying they have a 90% effective vaccine for Covid-19 sometime over the next 24 months, will you take it?

What do you do for a living? I work in IT Security / Privacy, have read the API documentation at length, and yes, I do believe the way it is implemented manages to protect end user privacy while also providing another avenue for contact tracing as we attempt to open up the economy so you can get back to studying virology at Trump University.

What have i posted that makes you think I'm anti vaccine? I haven't cited Trump anywhere, and I'll tell you I voted for Obama twice, and wrote in my daughter in the last election, so stop it with the name calling. Trump and the cons are totally complicit in this mess and are doubling down to justify their actions. How well is that app going to work with people refusing to self report and 80 percent of the infected walking around with no symptoms?

btw because you asked I'm an attorney and a tech nerd from way back. I know Richard Stallman and used to give advice on the GPL to coders interested in the license.

 

[Trik]

What have i posted that makes you think I'm anti vaccine? I haven't cited Trump anywhere, and I'll tell you I voted for Obama twice, and wrote in my daughter in the last election, so stop it with the name calling. Trump and the cons are totally complicit in this mess and are doubling down to justify their actions. How well is that app going to work with people refusing to self report and 80 percent of the infected walking around with no symptoms?

btw because you asked I'm an attorney and a tech nerd from way back. I know Richard Stallman and used to give advice on the GPL to coders interested in the license.

What name did I call you?

In your scenario, it won’t work at all, ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy? Maybe stop spreading your false equivalencies on a Macrumors forum and spend that time encouraging people to use the api so we can hit the 60%+ number we need to for it to start being effective.

Or not, go tell everyone that suicide kills 800,000 people a year, and ask... why haven’t we made banned anything that can be used to kill ourselves?!?!

 

[Tor Eckman]

What name did I call you?

In your scenario, it won’t work at all, ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy? Maybe stop spreading your false equivalencies on a Macrumors forum and spend that time encouraging people to use the api so we can hit the 60%+ number we need to for it to start being effective.

Or not, go tell everyone that suicide kills 800,000 people a year, and ask... why haven’t we made banned anything that can be used to kill ourselves?!?!

The Trump university quip is the equivalent of name calling. Why not just stick to the material? Again, if the majority of people never have symptoms from 19, and no matter what I post in here, many people will not report it to the app even if they know, apple is never going to have anything like 60 percent plus accuracy. Btw, the suicide number is climbing due to unemployment due to lockdowns at a rate of 1.6 percent per unemployment point increase.

 

[Henrytanner]

How we can use this API?

any tutorial on this?

 

[Rigby]

If I have the power I would do what China did for Wuhan. Lockdown 1000% for 21 days, pour in more resources than you would normally budget for 20 years worth of medical care funding, mobilize all doctors in the country and military medics, and army corps of engineers. Then it will drop to 5% or less pretty quickly just like China. Then life can be back to normal for everyone, just like what is like in China right now.

Life in China is not back to normal. The only thing that currently keeps the virus in check are various degrees of lockdown and social distancing. Lift them completely, and the virus starts spreading faster again. There will not be a permanent "going back to normal" until a vaccine is found. It doesn't need to be anywhere near 100% effective, just enough to push the virus' reproduction number below 1.0 without lockdowns.
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How we can use this API?

any tutorial on this?

As an independent developer you can't. Apple will only give the necessary permissions to public health authorities.

 

[Tor Eckman]

Life in China is not back to normal. The only thing that currently keeps the virus in check are various degrees of lockdown and social distancing. Lift them completely, and the virus starts spreading faster again. There will not be a permanent "going back to normal" until a vaccine is found. It doesn't need to be anywhere near 100% effective, just enough to push the virus' reproduction number below 1.0 without lockdowns.

Less than 50 percent of US will get a flu vaccine, what if, even if we get a somewhat effective 19 vaccine in two years, that same number refuse to take it? Would you support forced vaccinations?

 

[malkovich87]

I’m sure Apple and Google will eventually be forced to “enhance” the API so it can be used for “crime fighting”. No way it’ll ever be used for completely seamless mass surveillance. Perhaps ad a government microphone drop-in feature so all social “tracing” can also be auditory?

 

[DeepIn2U]

I have warmed to this idea as time has gone on. However...once we have the situation under control to the point where this would no longer be necessary...I want to see Apple remove the API and not allow it to be "repurposed". Whether you want to see it or not, allowing this even to begin with for this situation is a slippery slope. When you consider how much Apple always touts their respect for privacy and security...they have a LOT to lose here if something goes wrong.

I trust that Apple made it as secure as possible and kept privacy as a priority. I do not, however...trust the security and privacy of an app that will utilize this...especially one created by a state (especially mine, if they go that route. Exhibit A...unemployment recently revealed private information for countless people) or anyone connected at the federal level. This API would be like a wet-dream to pretty much ALL of the leadership in my state. If my state were to develop an app using this...they can kiss my ass.

which state might in question are you referring to?

 

[Brandhouse]

Would you support forced vaccinations?

YES!!!!!!!!