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Apple and Google Partner on Opt-In COVID-19 Contact Tracing Technology to Be Added to iPhone and Android Smartphones
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If the warrant is accompanied with probable cause and signed by a judge, then yes, of course. As it should be.
Similarly...if someone is accused of committing a crime, and there is probable cause that person's safe deposit box at the local bank contains evidence of that committed crime, then as with the above, a warrant signed by a judge will permit the police to open and search the contents of that safe deposit box at the bank.
The way this reads to me is that location tracking is not a requirement. Seems like it just uses bluetooth to see who you have been around. Sure, that still could be dangerous because your phone might put you near someone who committed a crime.
This is correct. Do any of you seriously think you cannot be tracked right now? Because if you carry a phone, you can.
This does nothing to further erode your privacy. It may, however, help save lives AND allow the US to reopen the economy months before we otherwise could.
U.S. has "at will" employment. If they don't fire you, and you transmit Covid-19 to another employee or student that dies, they could be hit with another lawsuit. Choose your poison.
The solution proposed to implement this contact tracing does NOT require recording a user's location, neither by governments, nor Apple, Google, etc.
The way it works is that every phone transmits a random ID (and no other information) to nearby devices, with the ID changing every, say, 5 minutes (so nobody can track movements of the same phones). It also records all the IDs it sees broadcast by other phones and retains them locally in a list for 14 days.
If a person then is tested positive for the virus, they can upload their own IDs (and only those, not location or anything else) of the last few days to a central database.
Every phone with the app checks this database regularly and compares entries with the list of random IDs it has seen from other phones over the last 14 days.
If there are matches, it can alert you and tell you you've had contact with an infected person. You can then self-quarantine before symptoms start, helping slow the spread.
https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/ also explains it nicely.
The way it works is that every phone transmits a random ID (and no other information) to nearby devices, with the ID changing every, say, 5 minutes (so nobody can track movements of the same phones). It also records all the IDs it sees broadcast by other phones and retains them locally in a list for 14 days.
If a person then is tested positive for the virus, they can upload their own IDs (and only those, not location or anything else) of the last few days to a central database.
Every phone with the app checks this database regularly and compares entries with the list of random IDs it has seen from other phones over the last 14 days.
If there are matches, it can alert you and tell you you've had contact with an infected person. You can then self-quarantine before symptoms start, helping slow the spread.
https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/ also explains it nicely.
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If they can tell you what to wear on your personal body (dress code, uniform), they can also tell you to install App X on your personal phone while at work.
Yep! I’m happy at least one other person here understands this. A lot of uninformed conjectures and conspiracy theories are being thrown around and we need to have a reasoned debate about this as a country. It’s a very useful tool and likely the only one we have to get back to something close to normal economically sooner than the 12-18 months it’ll take until a vaccine or treatment is developed and proven safe and effective and production is scaled.
More analysis will be needed once the technical details are available, but this is where I see the first problem. The server you upload the data to will at the very least see your IP address, and voila, with help of your carrier it knows who you are, can link the random keys to your identity, and to other people who have done the same.
I would be much less concerned if this was *not* embedded in the OS, but just an app that the user can uninstall ...
Leaving my home to go to work isn't a crime. 🤷♂️ I can guarantee that someone in the government knows that I leave my house at the same time every day, spend 14 hours at the hospital, and come home at the same time. And they probably know exactly what roads I take to get there. Hell...they probably know that I stop at the same Starbucks drive thru at roughly the same time each commute. All of which was done without this opt-in technology from Apple and Google.
I'm getting really sick of people who try to justify us not having any privacy. If you want every detail of your life out there...by all means, put it out there. I'm an innocent, law-abiding citizen. But guess what? I appreciate some privacy, considering I have a right to it.
I could EASILY see this happening. The word "voluntary" has been mutilated to the point of being unrecognizable. It no longer means "of your own free will", it now frequently means "to avoid consequences". Want to join the company wellness program? It is completely "voluntary" but if you don't volunteer we will raise your healthcare premiums 25%. Oh, wait, I got that completely backwards. Your healthcare premiums are going up 25% unless you voluntarily join the wellness program - that sounds much better.
Additionally, I guarantee you law enforcement agencies across the country are already trying to figure out how to get and keep access to this type of data long after COVID-19 is a distant memory. I have no doubt Apple and Google are doing this with good intentions, it is a shame that others will use those good intentions as paving stones to build a road.
I want everyone to be healthy and safe, including my own family, but I’ll be passing this up... hard pass...
I hope everyone's concerns are alleviated, but once again, combating the virus isn't about you. IT's about those around you and the community. It's sad to see that when events require us to come together as a community, everyone can't think beyond themselves.
This will only work if poeple trust it and I hope Google / Apple does a good job communicating that.
This will only work if poeple trust it and I hope Google / Apple does a good job communicating that.
This is where I see the problem being. I would confidently say that a majority of people trust Apple. But the majority do NOT trust Google. Given the option, I won't be opting in. But I DO think that people might be more willing if this was only Apple doing it (but that brings with it the issue of it only working for Apple devices). Adding Google into the mix kind of sours it for me.
Lots of FUD over the privacy implications of this which completely ignores how it’s actually going to be implemented. A few key points that render most of it useless:
I deeply care about digital privacy and have spoken about it at length here. Having looked over the documentation on how it actually works, this is a solution that’s consistent with what we’d expect from Apple, and honestly I’d feel comfortable enabling it.
- Location Services is not used. This system cannot be used to track anyone’s location, period.
- No PII is involved at all. No name, location, contact information, or anything of the like.
- What is tracked? An anonymous, ephemeral Bluetooth beacon transmitted by the device that changes every 15 minutes. Even the most oppressive government couldn’t use this to track anyone’s contacts over time.
- You must install an app (or later, when it’s built into iOS and Android, opt-in) to use this feature, and even then, when diagnosed, the user’s consent is required to actually share the data to notify exposed individuals. (The device sends a ~14-day temporary store of keys for devices whose owners were exposed.)
I deeply care about digital privacy and have spoken about it at length here. Having looked over the documentation on how it actually works, this is a solution that’s consistent with what we’d expect from Apple, and honestly I’d feel comfortable enabling it.
Right. So the server now knows you've tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 (or at least you're claiming so). They don't yet know who you are, because to get your name, they have to get a court order, or be some authority (police, FBI, and so forth) that automatically has the powers to obtain personal information for an IP address.
But let's say the server was run by the government, and they could easily get this data... the thing is, a lab has already tested you positively for SARS-CoV-2 by analyzing your blood sample. Name, address, everything included.
Which is much more reliable information that just your address (which doesn't even necessarily identify you as an individual) that the government could obtain just as easily. If you upload the info from a Starbucks WiFi network, they don't even have that.
And even if they did go through all that trouble, all they know is that you, John Doe, were infected. After two weeks, you're most likely all good again, and also immune.
Where exactly is the dystopian privacy nightmare here that leads to dissidents being rounded up and shot by "deep state" thugs in a dark alley? Or whatever folks on the first few pages of this thread are imagining when they're saying "no thanks I don't want the government to spy on me"?
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Just to make this very clear: this technology can not be repurposed in the future to perform, say, contact tracing of journalists and dissidents (in authoritarian countries where dissidents are a concept in the first place). A user has to actively share their random ID history in order to notify people they were in contact with that they were, well, in contact. Without knowing who these people are, and without revealing their identity to these people.
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I'll have to take some time to actually read into it. I do admit that while skeptical of the inclusion of Google...maybe Apple could kind of pressure Google into honoring privacy. Apple spends a LOT of time advertising about how they value privacy...and a mistake from Google on this can totally blow it for Apple in terms of trust. Maybe this partnership will bring about a change for the better in how Google handles privacy. Apple is actually putting a lot of trust at stake by partnering with Google. They have a lot to use if their stance on privacy can't "rub off" on Google.
These things start out in a subtitle way, it is being proposed as a health and safety tool, when I say common sense is what is needed. What good is a software or hardware solution if I cannot follow basic personal hygiene practices. Seriously what is the point of this other than to remove or encroach on people’s personal liberties.
If you want to be tracked by CCTV in public spaces or have your entire life tracked digitally may I suggest moving to UK or China.
This is a classic example of double-think:
“Contact tracing can help slow the spread of COVID-19 and can be done without compromising user privacy.”
But tracing IS an invasion of privacy...
The devil is in the detail: user privacy. The concept of aggregate privacy also exists, which in this case is violated.
“Contact tracing can help slow the spread of COVID-19 and can be done without compromising user privacy.”
But tracing IS an invasion of privacy...
The devil is in the detail: user privacy. The concept of aggregate privacy also exists, which in this case is violated.