DaveN
macrumors 6502a
So if you are going to commit a crime, don’t enable it.
Apple and Google Partner on Opt-In COVID-19 Contact Tracing Technology to Be Added to iPhone and Android Smartphones
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Maybe people view 2 as an issue because the companies that die...won't be the multi-million dollar ones. It'll be the ones that people rely on to make money so they can live. Yeah...you'll survive this by being out of work. But you also need to be able to survive AFTER. If this shutdown were to continue for a year...literally every business in my town would shut down...except for Walmart and McDonalds. That's all we'd be left with. And then we have an entirely NEW problem.
Wow just wow! I have many friends who are not Filthy rich And own small businesses like taco trucks who are struggling like crazy. These people started out as a cook for someone else and now employ dozens of workers. I guess it’s ok for everyone just be living off the government’s teat? Not everyone works for a bad corporation like Walmart or Goldman Sachs. And just like the poster above said, the small businesses have a much much higher chance of going under, further making corps even stronger. Geez
B4U
macrumors 68040
But it sure would turn off the Android one. 😛The joke's on you.Airplane mode no longer turns off Bluetooth on iPhones (presumably because it would disconnect Apple Watches, Airpods etc.).
I don't trust this to be opt-in.
There's been an extreme overreach of government into our liberties and privacy due to this outbreak.
In the UK people are being fined for buying non essentials like wine or crisps. They've been fined for driving their cars (to and from their house in order to get out). They've been fined for playing with their kids in their own garden away from anyone. Using drones to follow people in the countryside on walks who aren't in contact with anyone.
The rate at which our governments have suspended basic liberties in such an overbearing way for an admittedly serious threat is something that shouldn't be happening.
They've been using phone data to track people in the US - which without a warrant is a gross violation of civil liberties.
We've become so used to an easy and soft lifestyle that we've become unable to properly gauge risk. I understand the need for strong measures to deal with this crisis caused by the Chinese Communist Party but the extreme many governments have gone to is not something that should ever happen in the West. We've shut down our economies to prevent the spread. We should've copied the Swiss approach and only put people who currently have the virus or who are vulnerable on lockdown and continued as normal but with social distancing and cleaning measures.
There's been an extreme overreach of government into our liberties and privacy due to this outbreak.
In the UK people are being fined for buying non essentials like wine or crisps. They've been fined for driving their cars (to and from their house in order to get out). They've been fined for playing with their kids in their own garden away from anyone. Using drones to follow people in the countryside on walks who aren't in contact with anyone.
The rate at which our governments have suspended basic liberties in such an overbearing way for an admittedly serious threat is something that shouldn't be happening.
They've been using phone data to track people in the US - which without a warrant is a gross violation of civil liberties.
We've become so used to an easy and soft lifestyle that we've become unable to properly gauge risk. I understand the need for strong measures to deal with this crisis caused by the Chinese Communist Party but the extreme many governments have gone to is not something that should ever happen in the West. We've shut down our economies to prevent the spread. We should've copied the Swiss approach and only put people who currently have the virus or who are vulnerable on lockdown and continued as normal but with social distancing and cleaning measures.
cmaier
Suspended
What information is the government collecting here?
Disease is a human condition and has no nationality. But if you want to point fingers at governments, its better to ask what is the value of a government that treats health as a luxury good and has no concept of a public interest in health and wellbeing.
But in any case what Snowden revealed a decade ago is that the US government has never needed any additional excuse to spy on people. One would think Apple should understand that...
4jasontv
Suspended
If the only companies in your town that people value are Walmart and McDonalds than doesn't it make sense that they survive?
now i see it
macrumors G4
Obviously this virus can be transmitted by other means than nearby coughs & sneezes- too many people are getting nailed by it. It has been postulated that it can be carried in the air/breeze for quite a distance before being inhaled into a person's lungs.
If so, (and it seems likely) who've you been near won't mean squat when the viri can travel who knows how far (across the street? Streets?) to infect someone else.
Clearly the "6 ft rule" isn't working at all. ( likely the distance needs to be hundreds of feet).
A Bluetooth app won't help with that
If so, (and it seems likely) who've you been near won't mean squat when the viri can travel who knows how far (across the street? Streets?) to infect someone else.
Clearly the "6 ft rule" isn't working at all. ( likely the distance needs to be hundreds of feet).
A Bluetooth app won't help with that
4jasontv
Suspended
I don't think a taco truck is more important than a person. It doesn't matter how you frame it.
well.. cell providers already know this, and more . how do we feel about that?
Personally, anything Apple does may be good, (not good for me, but probably good in general) but i only wished Apple went solo here.... Google will abuse it. We've known that from their own apps previously....
Personally, anything Apple does may be good, (not good for me, but probably good in general) but i only wished Apple went solo here.... Google will abuse it. We've known that from their own apps previously....
code-m
macrumors 68040
Small pox is deadly compared to SARS-CoV-2, it’s not even in the same league. That’s like comparing Ebola or HIV which destroy the body rapidly through hemorrhagic fever and bleeding, which COVID-19 does not. Chances are if you can sit at home for two weeks waiting to monitor symptoms of you recover or it gets worse then it’s nowhere in the same league as Small pox.
SARS-CoV-2 is part of the corona virus family that includes SARS-1 and MERS, remind me of the world has developed a vaccine for those, I am aware that there were in development before the US government withdrew funding from it being tested. SARS-CoV-2 does one thing similar to the common cold/flu virus It spreads quickly but is not as fatal as other viruses that you are trying to elude to, if that were the case we would have a lower recovery rate compared to death and no not all those recoveries have been through hospital admission so maybe stop spreading the fear. If you knew anything about a cytokines storm you would understand that putting people on ventilators might not be a good idea.
We don’t know what the true mortality rate of CORVID-19 as everything is being lumped into it. Have you compared the numbers of the seasonal cold/flu, have you noticed the numbers lower compared to prior years. Is this a coincidence we don’t know. What if someone has an immune suppressed system catches the seasonal cold/flu virus needs to be admitted and every other year it’s reported as cold/flu but this time around their also happen to also get COVID-19 and now it’s reported as that vice seasonal cold/flu. The reported numbers are not as simple as what if being reported but go head believe it’s some big bad virus.
If no one had or developed an immunity to SARS-CoV-2 then we would not have recoveries and asymptomatic cases which far outnumber the death. Get your facts straight and stop fear mongering. The economy is a made up system, it can be reset. Many economies of the past have failed and new ones have taken its places, this present economic monetary system was bound to collapse it has been artificially propped far too long. The world is not going to end, just relax and have a relaxing beverage.
I came to same conclusions.
But my remaining concern, as of now at least, is the initial phase implementation. (Also, my gut feel is that they may potentially never get to the next phase, embedded in iOS, for several reasons).
Specifically, that a 3rd party app (from “Public Health authorities” ) needs to be installed for it to work. Such app will be provided by a developer who will design it as instructed, ie by the government.
That app could certainty have access to actual Location data, just like other apps.
TheRealTVGuy
macrumors 6502a
You guys are about nine days too late for the annual April Fool’s stories, aren’t you...?
code-m
macrumors 68040
If you compare the percentile or infected with those that have died you will get a number greater than 1% so saying that is the number is also inaccurate as it all depends on demographic, geographic and health care system established. My R0 number of 2.2 was estimated by the medical community and yes we agree it varies on location. The people mainly effected are the marginalized who have poor diets/nutrition and are employed in low income jobs that require interaction with effected people. Being on a ventilator does not guarantee a COVID patient will survive, this misinformation needs to stop.
It is very challenging to get any clear numbers from the origin of initial outbreak (Wuhan) as the Chinese government (CCP) does not count or report asymptomatic patients. We must also look at people who recovered and have been reinfected in the place of outbreak origin, however good luck getting anything from CCP there have been reports from Wuhan but the information released is carefully curated and released. Do a quick online search there are some reports?
The medical investigation relating to Wuhan, Italy, Spain, New York, Germany is underway it would be premature to conclude anything at this time.
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Civil liberties and freedom gone with this type of perceived for the good of public health is pushed. Next you will find yourself fined or possibly in prison for being asymptomatic and going about your daily business because other non-asymptomatic people happen to cross your path.
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Nope
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There is a reason why Apple and Google are partnering on this because they make mobile OSes, this will become part of the OS and will have a switch to turn-on and off by user intent initially eventually it will be pressured by authorities to make it permanently on without users consent.
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Nope, because the only reason our other businesses are closed right now...is because the governor forced them to. And for those who fit under the “essential” category...they are still suffering due to the fact that people aren’t going out right now due to the threat of a fine or arrest. As far as we’re concerned here...f*ck Walmart and McDonald’s. Small businesses bring in a LOT of money to our town under normal circumstances. They are taking a huge hit. If they all shutter...Walmart and McDonald’s won’t save us. My state as a whole is already a financial toilet bowl and it was before this virus. We literally can not afford to lose small businesses.
This is the problem with some people. You’re only focused on the situation as it is NOW. While totally ignoring what inevitably will come after. Yes...we need to survive this virus in the NOW. But we also need to have jobs to go back to afterwards so we can continue to live when it’s over. Lucky for me...that’s not a worry of mine. My nursing job sure as heck isn’t going away. My wife’s teaching job...isn’t going away. But the people who’s small business is their entire livelihood? We need to worry about them, too. Clearly...you aren’t. A lot of these people risk being put out on the street when this is over because their business didn’t survive this and they have no income to keep their home.
Are you familiar with the law of unintended consequences? This entire scenario is a poster child for it. What we’re left with when this is over...won’t be good. It’s going to be a whole new MAJOR problem that will be just as difficult to bounce back from as what we’re dealing with now.
In our clinics that we've been testing for COVID, we do both Flu and Covid testing for every patient suspected as having Covid. So far we have not had a COVID positive patient while flu was also positive, it's either one or the other. Our clinic has only tested a few hundred so our sample size is small. How do you explain Italy and New York's death rates? We either have Spanish Flu 2.0 or it is from Covid causing the high death rates.
We are getting high recovery rates as most do survive it, but one theory why there's young fatalities is that some people are lacking the genes that are able to respond to Covid. Theory is that leads to the immune system being overwhelmed and leads to a cytokine storm that destroys the organs starting with the lungs which is ARDS
Also men are dying disproportionately more even when accounting for preexisting conditions. Considering that many of the immune system's genes are coded from the X chromosome is may be part of the answer.
I agree with the ventilator situation. Cuomo who keeps talking about how 10,000 ventilators save 10,000 lives is full of it. You'll be lucky if you save 3,000 if you had to intubate 10,000. Once you get on a vent you're most likely going to die. We're just delaying the inevitable. That's why the death rate will continue to go up as the ones who've been hanging on in the ICU are finally going to give out (It's usually the heart that gives up and goes into failure as it's trying to make up for the low amount of oxygen by pumping itself to death)
Finally, usually "resetting an economy" usually comes with bloodshed is not a peaceful transition, so be careful what you ask for.
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code-m
macrumors 68040
Are those COVID tests know if this is SARS-CoV-2 (strain S or L), it would be interesting to know as the initial outbreak had strain L which was restricted with immediate action while strain S has been short after. It would be interesting to know which type has been affecting Italy, Spain, New York, France, Germany compared to Wuhan (strain S). Because if a vaccine is being developed for one strain we will see the mutative strain L resurface later on.
Not necessarily the world and society is not going to result in mass bloodshed there are transitionary mechanisms available that may not have been considered or available in the past. One can expect panic and fear which are natura human emotions, not all nations are gun happy or irresponsible. I have used semi-automatics and pistols on the range, am very comfortable using them but I don’t like them in my house. To me it belongs on the range or for a specific purpose the house is not one of them and no I don’t live isolated in the woods.
QCassidy352
macrumors G5
Ok well I work in criminal law, and I can assure you that the very thing you say cannot be done is done every single day in the United States and has been for over a decade. The technology has been described in countless cases. And I'm sure you'll say "they're just lawyers; they're getting it wrong." To which I would say, no, that's not how this works. Judges don't make up how they think technologies work and then write that in their opinions. The parties call expert witnesses, like FBI technical agents, who explain how the technology works, and then the judges parrot those explanations in public filings.
I've posted link after link saying that what's happening is GPS pings, and your response has just been "no it isn't," so sure, go with that.
Yes that's true, but that's even rougher than triangulation. With that method, all they know is which 120 degree face of a given tower you're connecting to, but that leaves a huge area in which you could be physically located. Especially because you might be pushed on to one tower that isn't the closest one, depending on network load. And, that only works if your phone is communicating with the network. So if you're neither sending nor receiving messages/calls/whatever, then there's no data. And it also doesn't work when the phone is using wifi to connect instead of the cellular network.
Passive in the sense that the devices are doing all the work; neither Apple/Google, nor the carrier, nor the user needs to take any action once the application is running. Pings, by contrast, must be set up for each user individually at the carrier level.
I had a client found by police to within a few meters. I saw the technical reports generated from that. They knew exactly where he was.
No, because - again - law enforcement needs a warrant to compel a carrier to start a ping. And a warrant requires particularized probable cause for a single person.
Who do you think works at companies? Dogs? Who do you think gets hurt when companies go under?
Maybe if the market were operating normally, but it's not. Small businesses are being forced to shut down by the government, not because consumers aren't choosing them. And small businesses don't have massive cash hordes to weather the storm. Big companies do.
A taco truck is usually a very small business owned by… a person. If the taco truck fails, the owner is out of work and can't pay his rent, buy his groceries, etc. When enough small businesses fail, and enough people become unemployed, then there isn't enough buying power in the economy, and other businesses start to fail. Like maybe the taco truck guy's landlord can't pay the mortgage on the building, and it gets foreclosed. Maybe the corner store he goes to loses so much business that it closes. And then what do the landlord and the corner store owner do? Well now they can't pay for their essentials. And more businesses close.
The dichotomy between a business and a person is false. When the economy goes in the tank, it doesn't hit either people or businesses; it hits both.
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Rainshadow
macrumors 6502a
I don’t care how Apple operates in China. Honestly. If you think China needs Apple for their survelillance, you would be wrong. Apple is obligated to follow the laws of that country. Don’t blame Apple. Blame China.