Apple and Nike?

[Sabenth]

oh joy fantastic fan fare and look at the fuss its already got and the attention just from here its already working

 

[gelbin]

Er, excuse me, my post with no reference to anyone and with no quote just happened to appear under yours. I certainly was not talking to you. If you actually got off your ass good for you. Its quite hard to bring down a big corporation though that was no doubt doing its own style of profiteering way before it ever became public knowledge. But if you are into tilting at windmills like the majority of well meaning activists hard pushed to balance their beliefs against a backdrop of a comfy existence, I wont laugh at you.

btw if you can tell me something even more naive than offering to go work in the place of the employees of a sweatshop in the name of improving the job opportunities for the local people, I would love to hear. Send your plane fare to someone local so they can set up something constructive.

first, i work to take down big corporations. i do it with the law. and let me clarify, i work to get corporations to follow the law, to respect life, and to respect human rights. i got an education, quite a bit of it. and i am trying to work within the system to bring about justice and change. i appreciate the windmills reference though, but i will bring change, and any excuse that you may have to stand by silent i reject.

there is nothing naive about offering to work for nike in a factory, in order to test their claim that they are not sweatshops and that they are good, clean, healthy, factories. they offered to do it, and when nike refused after several offers, the two went to live on the wage to see if it was purely a matter of the cost of living conversion (as many people suggest, here and elsewhere) and they found that they could barely survive, loosing like 20 lbs in a one month period due to starvation.

 

[erova]

I thought they attracted a kinda 'think different--think for yourself' crowd. The kind that sort of shuns places Nike, which uses sweatshop labor.

now there's a logical connection.

 

[erova]

the two went to live on the wage to see if it was purely a matter of the cost of living conversion (as many people suggest, here and elsewhere) and they found that they could barely survive, loosing like 20 lbs in a one month period due to starvation.

amazing what happens when a mcdonalds isn't on every corner, huh?

doh.

 

[coolsoldier]

Amazing how this turned into a discussion on corporate ethics...

Seriously, do you really buy your computers based on principle? Or based on quality/value?

If you buy based on principle, I suggest you buy from the kid down the street building computers in his basement. We know he is satisfied with his working conditions and we know his computers are made in the USA. Apple is not the model of ideal working conditions any more than any other international company. If you boycotted any company that was associated with a company that used less-than-ideal working conditions you would never buy anything.

If you buy based on quality/value, then this whole discussion of sweatshop labor is completely off topic. The quality/value of Apple products doesn't change because of a marketing deal with Nike. The mindshare of Apple products does. That makes this a good marketing deal for Apple.

 

[amnesiac1984]

Contrary to popular belief, child slave labor is actually quite beneficial to both the corporation and the 3rd world country: http://www.childslavelabor.com.

I truly hope you are joking, have you read this site?

ok... how to put this while not breaking the rules and getting banned.... "workers being paid handsomely by that countries' standards"? hmm. how about not being allowed to organize? how about being tortured and raped in the factories? how about working in awful conditions that lead to cancer and other deadly illnesses? how about being scared to speak up because of possibly losing a job, or a limb, or worse..?

sorry, but just because they make more than joe fruit stand worker in the streets of beijing (assuming you are right) doesn't mean that 1. it's a better life or 2. it's something that can be praised.. i'm not satisfied with the status quo and it makes me sick that some people can turn a blind eye to the truths of the situation.

but you do make a great point, how can nike rationalize charging 100+ for a shoe that costs them less than 5 to make?

this partnership is gross.

here here, thankyou jello, the question is not whether they are making enough money to live in their country, but can you really sit by while these foreign CHILDREN labour away while our kids play in the back yard?

I just think it's naive to think that not buying Nike shoes - or even, say, preventing Nike from using labor in those countries - will in any way improve the standard of living for those people. The only way to do that is to get the governments of those countries to change. Boycotting a shoe manufacturer isn't going to help anything at all.

hmmm So every 3rd world government is corrupt and evil, where did you here that? Maybe they are in the crap house because the US and other western countries have been crapping on them for the past 150 years.

(1) Dude, if it weren't for capitalism, we'd all be "third world" and we'd all use child labor. Bad or good by itself, the capitalist-driven industrial age gave us the machines that got us past child labor. Unless you're Amish (doubtful, given the email... ), capitalism has improved your life.

I don't really see how this is the case to be honest. Yes these things happened under capitalism but why could they not have happened under an alternative economic system? Also, The Soviet Union was very industrialised.

(2) Hey, man, it doesn't bother me that democrats are "purchased and paid for". I'm a capitalist, so I'm cool with that.

I pray to God, Allah, Buddha and Steve Jobs that you were having a laugh with this one.

 

[amnesiac1984]

I think they mean in the Apple Stores where the promotions are. Not on our HOME computers.

I can't seriously believe you thought that...

fair enough I see that now but I read the article again and my interpretation is entirely plausible IMO, in fact it's the type of thing that goes on all the time, I just didn't think Apple was that kind of company, so no need for any nasty shenanigans okay?

 

[jsw]

hmmm So every 3rd world government is corrupt and evil, where did you here that? Maybe they are in the crap house because the US and other western countries have been crapping on them for the past 150 years.

Ummm... I didn't say that the governments were corrupt or evil. I said that change wouldn't occur without changing the governments of those countries. "Change" doesn't mean "overthrow". I simply meant that they need to operate in a different manner. "Change" could also imply actions on behalf of NATO countries to forgive debt, etc. However, I do believe a number of those governments are corrupt or at least that they turn a blind eye to things.

I don't really see how this is the case to be honest. Yes these things happened under capitalism but why could they not have happened under an alternative economic system? Also, The Soviet Union was very industrialised.

(a) They didn't happen under any other economic system; (b) the Soviet Union pretty much goes to show that industrialization without capitalism doesn't work - as I recall, they don't exist anymore, and shortages ran rampant even though natural resources were plenty.

In any event, Apple is a capitalist company, and I'm happy to support them by buying their products. I think they provide good value. I think the world is, overall, a better place because of Apple, and, since they yield a net good, I have no problem buying their products. I personally don't think that, overall, the world is a worse place due to Nike, so, again, I have no problem buying their products.

 

[7on]

Has anyone just think Jobs likes wearing Nikes and the Nike CEO likes using Macs?

And you can't tell me that this shoe isn't awesome to the max,

 

[jsw]

(2) Hey, man, it doesn't bother me that democrats are "purchased and paid for". I'm a capitalist, so I'm cool with that.

I pray to God, Allah, Buddha and Steve Jobs that you were having a laugh with this one.

I was, since I don't think that either party here is completely "purchased and paid for" and, regardless, I at least can pick what I think is the lessor of two evils right now.

Plus, of course, Apple's pro-Democrat.

 

[Kagetenshi]

It is my view of the world. NOT some scientific setup. I AM intitled to my opinion, am I not? My view of the world breaks down some of the sterotypes when it comes to economic classes. I invented the 5th World, and I fear, that if we continue this bickering there will develop a 6th world... The Internet.

TEG

You're entitled to your opinion, but this isn't a matter of opinion. You're using preexisting terms that are very clearly defined. It's like my deciding to call England Nebraska. I can do that all I want in private, but if I tell anyone else that Heathrow Airport is in Nebraska, they will (quite correctly) tell me that I am wrong.

~J

 

[autrefois]

Apple's retail site mentions a new Nike-Apple promotion:



According to one report sent to MacRumors, Apple Store employees will be wearing the Nike ID shoes in stores along with Nike tie ins (Nike website as default on Safari) in a cross promotion effort lasting until May 18th.

I decided to look at the actual site itself to see what Apple was saying, and I don't see Nike mentioned anywhere on the retail site. Is it possible they took it down?

When I do a search (on the bottom of the retail site), the second link that comes up in the results is titled "Apple Store" and says:

"... you? That you’re a fan of USC? That you adore the color pink? With NIKE iD, you can personalize your shoes to represent you. Visit an Apple Store and ask a ..."

And when I click on it, it brings me to the retail site, which has no mention of Nike anywhere.

Am I just missing it somewhere? Or maybe they've cancelled the promotion!?!

 

[alphaq619]

If I had to guess, all the employees get something free. Like shirts with the Nike logo instead of the Apple. And in turn, all the stores have nike.com set as the homepage.

 

[kotovasii]

Are you certain that even Apple is completely responsible in this area?

What I attempted to say is that Apple is just another big corporation; and just because they make the best computers and actually think of their customers, does not necessarily mean we have to support them all way long. People and even businesses DO make mistakes (such as this co-project with Nike – which I am totally against!)

 

[kotovasii]

You're entitled to your opinion, but this isn't a matter of opinion. You're using preexisting terms that are very clearly defined. It's like my deciding to call England Nebraska. I can do that all I want in private, but if I tell anyone else that Heathrow Airport is in Nebraska, they will (quite correctly) tell me that I am wrong.

~J

Thank You! Kagetenshi!

 

[barrancs]

Sell out losers.

Yeah why not, I mean apple already supports slave labor in Taiwan. Just goes to show how Steve Jobs is just another Bill Gates, only one with half as much success. Sold your soul for a buck. It's ok, though once emagic makes samplitude a competitor apple is screwed anyway. You've got Premier on a PC who needs Final **** Pro.

 

[Nermal]

**** it, I'm going Linux.

Have fun. SuSE is the best.

Why do I have this strange feeling that we're going to have a "post pics of your shoes" thread?

 

[neon]

if you dont care about sweatshops, fine, but pretending they're nice is something else

it's like dressing up your apathy and it stinks

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I'm not pointing fingers at Nike alone... I'm sure any electronics company--Apple too--has some things going on overseas (with suppliers at the very least) that don't bear scrutiny.

What the hell are you talking about ? What do you mean with going on overseas ?
Pls explain