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Apple and Samsung Respond to the $1 Billion Patent Verdict
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Are the lyrics the same? Is the melody the same? If any of the pieces are the same, you'll need to give credit where it's due. It's like references in journal articles.
There's a lot of songs with the same name. But I wouldn't call that stealing.
In that sense, aren't we all copying each other just by using words and sentences? Shouldn't we reference every person who invented each word, and every sentence we write, because surely someone somewhere has written the exact same thing to some extent.
All of our arguments are null and void at this point if that's true.
My cube mate at work bought the Nexus 7. Brought it in yesterday. A nice device, to be sure.
Though he couldn't get on our corp wifi... No support for Enterprise level Encryption. All the tips we found online failed to work.
Just putting this out there as a "buyer beware" not a dig at android.
Samsung is playing victim but they have filed numerous suits against Apple. They got caught...they need to be responsible.
What you forgot to mention of course is that Steve Jobs himself famously quoted this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
Copying is not innovation, of course. That goes without saying. But what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that no innovation, no invention, ever happened in a vacuum. No one has ever invented something new by starting from scratch. Every inventor, every innovator who ever lived, piggy-backed off previous ideas from other people. That's how humankind makes progress. So yes, when one company comes up with a great idea, and others are prevented from using it, it can hamper overall progress, because people are now investing energy into making products different for the sake of being different, not necessarily better.
The problem is not that copying removes the potential for innovation. It doesn't. The problem is that people (and companies) need an incentive to innovate. When that incentive is financial, the fact that you could invest 10 years of your life into developing a great idea into a saleable product only to see others sweep in and copy it in 12 months, is something of a disincentive! That is the reason we have intellectual property law, including patents.
Now, Apple say their motivation is creating great products and seeing consumers delight in them, and I don't doubt that is a primary motivation for guys like Jonathan Ive (and Steve Jobs when he was alive). But it's clearly not the only motivation. Jobs was obviously very competitive too, and absolutely hated to see companies like Samsung benefit commercially from Apple's ideasalthough of course, Apple has benefited from the ideas of others as have all companies. I'll say it again No innovation ever happened in a vacuum.
This is a poor decision, and no, I am not an "Apple Hater" but I do have extensive experience with smartphones, dating back into the earliest models.
So I am a bit more experienced with the issue than those who jumped on the bandwagon in 2007. Here is my synopsis and a general outline.
Apple designed a GREAT phone, but not an amazing one. Am I the only one who remembers an iPhone you couldn't customize the ringtone on? An iPhone that could not send or recieve MMS? iPhones that could not record video?
These were all standard on almost any phone, and apple copied them later. Does this mean apple ripped someone else off? NO!
I think what we see is that an idea has its time, and while some companies nail it down a little better (Apple for example almost always makes the most refined product of any category) very few of them are truly creating something out of nothing. As a society we build upon prior discoveries, advancements and technology. If every company had to reinvent the wheel, we would still be in the dark ages.
And as technology matures, certain ideas and things become necessary. Apple built the iPhone on years of watching other companies design and release smartphones. They sat back, while OTHER companies innovated, tweaking and nailing down parts of the design that were amazingly smooth and well designed.
However, to give all the credit to Apple is a bit ridiculous. Apple didn't jump to market with the iPhone in 2000. Other companies designed and released phones, and while maybe not hitting the target as smartly as Apple, definitely innovated with each new release.
While Apple got it right TM in 2007 when they released the iPhone, I would not call it a TRULY INNOVATIVE product as is being pushed here. But does anyone here honestly believe that apple would have hit the nail so firmly if it had not been able to see what had worked and NOT worked up until then? What seemed to be the general direction of smartphones in 2007? Do you think they could have hit that nail so firmly on the head had other companies not innovated and taken the risks designing phones that helped pave the way for the iphone?
Apple does what apple does best - wait until the perfect timing of technology (Enough processor speed / etc to deliver its dream) the hardware to make it gorgeous, trendy, and reliable, and having the most amazing design team on the planet puts this all into a very desireable package.
However, it like anyone else builds on the foundation layed by other companies, who while perhaps not getting it right or perfect on the first few tries, atleast had the innovation and forsight to TRY and make something new.
And thats my rant for why so many of these patents are a bad idea. While many times someone comes up with an idea "First" it often is really an idea that has "Come of age" so to speak, and noone exists in a vacuum.
The iPhone homescreen is a great example. Its intuitive, quick and easy to use. The large square icons with only a handful per screen are way better than what came before it, ungainly tiny screens with so many icons you could hardly poke one without accidentally hitting another.
However, its such a great idea, honestly all phones should have it. Its about us as a public getting the best device. While apple pinned that design down, why should everyone else be forced to continue to use crappy ui now that someone has shown a much better way?
I don't know the answer to that question. Apple deserves to profit and take pride in its great design, but an idea that really is the best way to do a certain thing is not something I feel a company should be able to "Own", even if it was the "First" to come up with it.
Sorry if this rant is a bit long - its definitely not about apple, they do what they do amazingly well. Its more about the current state of our patent system, and me wondering if there is not just a better way to do things, to promote MORE free sharing of great ideas, which I think is what will TRULY advance technology, not seperating each company and placing them all in a vacuum and saying "Hah now each of you come up with completely seperate ideas". Innovation is 1% originality, and 99% building on all that which has gotten us to this point.
So I am a bit more experienced with the issue than those who jumped on the bandwagon in 2007. Here is my synopsis and a general outline.
Apple designed a GREAT phone, but not an amazing one. Am I the only one who remembers an iPhone you couldn't customize the ringtone on? An iPhone that could not send or recieve MMS? iPhones that could not record video?
These were all standard on almost any phone, and apple copied them later. Does this mean apple ripped someone else off? NO!
I think what we see is that an idea has its time, and while some companies nail it down a little better (Apple for example almost always makes the most refined product of any category) very few of them are truly creating something out of nothing. As a society we build upon prior discoveries, advancements and technology. If every company had to reinvent the wheel, we would still be in the dark ages.
And as technology matures, certain ideas and things become necessary. Apple built the iPhone on years of watching other companies design and release smartphones. They sat back, while OTHER companies innovated, tweaking and nailing down parts of the design that were amazingly smooth and well designed.
However, to give all the credit to Apple is a bit ridiculous. Apple didn't jump to market with the iPhone in 2000. Other companies designed and released phones, and while maybe not hitting the target as smartly as Apple, definitely innovated with each new release.
While Apple got it right TM in 2007 when they released the iPhone, I would not call it a TRULY INNOVATIVE product as is being pushed here. But does anyone here honestly believe that apple would have hit the nail so firmly if it had not been able to see what had worked and NOT worked up until then? What seemed to be the general direction of smartphones in 2007? Do you think they could have hit that nail so firmly on the head had other companies not innovated and taken the risks designing phones that helped pave the way for the iphone?
Apple does what apple does best - wait until the perfect timing of technology (Enough processor speed / etc to deliver its dream) the hardware to make it gorgeous, trendy, and reliable, and having the most amazing design team on the planet puts this all into a very desireable package.
However, it like anyone else builds on the foundation layed by other companies, who while perhaps not getting it right or perfect on the first few tries, atleast had the innovation and forsight to TRY and make something new.
And thats my rant for why so many of these patents are a bad idea. While many times someone comes up with an idea "First" it often is really an idea that has "Come of age" so to speak, and noone exists in a vacuum.
The iPhone homescreen is a great example. Its intuitive, quick and easy to use. The large square icons with only a handful per screen are way better than what came before it, ungainly tiny screens with so many icons you could hardly poke one without accidentally hitting another.
However, its such a great idea, honestly all phones should have it. Its about us as a public getting the best device. While apple pinned that design down, why should everyone else be forced to continue to use crappy ui now that someone has shown a much better way?
I don't know the answer to that question. Apple deserves to profit and take pride in its great design, but an idea that really is the best way to do a certain thing is not something I feel a company should be able to "Own", even if it was the "First" to come up with it.
Sorry if this rant is a bit long - its definitely not about apple, they do what they do amazingly well. Its more about the current state of our patent system, and me wondering if there is not just a better way to do things, to promote MORE free sharing of great ideas, which I think is what will TRULY advance technology, not seperating each company and placing them all in a vacuum and saying "Hah now each of you come up with completely seperate ideas". Innovation is 1% originality, and 99% building on all that which has gotten us to this point.
See Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve.
They ended up paying 100% of the royalties and losing writer credits and copyright for sampling too much of the original Stones track.
Hah sorry looks like we posted within just a few minutes of each other and have very similair ideas on this subject !
For those who don't click on the above YouTube link, here's what a younger Steve Jobs once had to say on the topic of great design:
Now, he wasn't suggesting that the Mac lacked innovationfar from it. I believe the point was that innovation and great design don't happen in a vacuumthey are inspired by the work of others.
It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done, and then try to bring those things in to what youre doing. Picasso had a saying: good artists copy, great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.
Now, he wasn't suggesting that the Mac lacked innovationfar from it. I believe the point was that innovation and great design don't happen in a vacuumthey are inspired by the work of others.
Ah yes Bill, but I posted before you did (all my own completely original ideas of course!), and so it's obvious that you must have copied my post. I'll see you in court!
Seriously though I do see Apple as an innovative company. Much of what they have given us over many years (especially under Jobs), undoubtedly took a lot of creativity, a lot of time to develop and test and tweak, and at times a good amount of risk to bring to market. But as you and I have both said, they didn't do it alone they too have borrowed much from others, and that is simply the nature of innovation and progress.
Samsung clearly had this coming but It's sad that even after this major victory by Apple, they'll still continue to put out the same regurgitated product year after year with little or no innovation whatsoever.
There are many differences, primarily that Apple didn't steal from Xerox. Apple was developing a graphic interface and paid a consulting fee to Xerox - which ended up being fairly lucrative Xerox made a lot of money off their Apple stock). In exchange they go to look at technology that Xerox didn't see as valuable.
Had Samsung approached any of this from a licensing standpoint then there obviously would not have been a lawsuit.
Although you are correct in some regards, the idea that no idea comes out of a vacuum is incorrect. People don't live in a vacuum, that much is true, but invention does happen, even now, without prior ideas. It may be true that the execution of a new idea may take parts and pieces from existing products, but that isn't using someone else's idea and copying it.
And it's also true that Apple's original iPhone is the perfect example of Apple taking something that had become the norm and improving upon it, changing the cell phone market forevermore. But to not give them credit for creating something that was not existing, when looked at as a whole, not just parts and pieces (a cell phone that was a phone, had a web browser, email, etc.
I think people fail to realize that things have changed so rapidly in the past 5 years, as far as mobile tech goes at least, that you think it's just the way it is, or that things would have turned out the same had Apple not introduced the iPhone. And that's just crap thinking and pointless. Apple did what they did, led the pack and as far as I'm concerned, still lead the pack at developing, improving, changing how we work with mobile tech, even computers as a whole.
The thing with Samsung issuing a statement that says innovation and consumer choice will be harmed by the court decision is not much different than the misinformation that politicians spew. Innovation happens when there is a need or opportunity for something new or different OR when there is an obstacle to get around that requires you to do something new and different.
So Apple gets patent protection for things that look and function like their iPhones - so what? Create something different Samsung. Take the opportunity (and the risk) and look at how you as a company can create things that address the needs that Apple's iPhone and iPad are not addressing. I'm sorry if you think that Apple's products are perfect and can't be improved upon, changed in some measurable and patentable way, because that tells me you have the wrong designers and engineers working for you.
Samsung (and many other companies) need to think different - act different and look ahead to what things should or could be. Not just take what we have now and copy it, scale it up or down. Think like sci-fi movie writers about how we will communicate in the future and work towards that end.
I don't know. Imagine if the 9-digit keypad was patented by whoever invented it first. Or imagine that the control layout introduced in the Cadillac type 53 was also protected by similar laws. In both cases, it was clearly possible to design alternative schemes. But instead those designs went on to become standards that we're familiar with today, and have been built upon by various innovators.
So for something as simple as having a grid like icon layout with large icons... I feel like we consumers are losing out.
Don't get me wrong, I love Apple. But for them to say "We make these products to delight our customers, not for our competitors to flagrantly copy." is pretty hypocritical. I'm pretty sure it was Google that came up with the pull-down notification center feature... I know this is software and not hardware, but it's still copying nonetheless. Where was the "innovation" here?
Those of you happy as pie for Apple to win in the way that it did...remember this:
You aren't allowed to complain when the new iPad 6 comes out, and it's essentially and iPad 3rd generation in a different color.
Many have said now they'll see real innovation come from Samsung, now. What you will see is status quo, because everyone will be afraid of doing something different, lest they are sued by someone claiming to have been copied. With such a high award given to Apple...let the new generation of lawsuits commence.
...and Apple, they won't need to innovate at the same level they had been anymore, either. It's a bit of a downer, if you ask me.
You aren't allowed to complain when the new iPad 6 comes out, and it's essentially and iPad 3rd generation in a different color.
Many have said now they'll see real innovation come from Samsung, now. What you will see is status quo, because everyone will be afraid of doing something different, lest they are sued by someone claiming to have been copied. With such a high award given to Apple...let the new generation of lawsuits commence.
...and Apple, they won't need to innovate at the same level they had been anymore, either. It's a bit of a downer, if you ask me.
If that was your invention, would you want everyone to copy it and steal your money from you?
Just wanted to say. I think this feature was first used in Jailbroken phones before it was used in Android.
Bs
The true innovators will continue to innovate and put out new products...it's in their culture. And actually, there really is only so much innovation that can be made in computing hardware...faster/cooler/cheaper. The innovation comes from the software, which is what the app store is for.
The true innovators will continue to innovate and put out new products...it's in their culture. And actually, there really is only so much innovation that can be made in computing hardware...faster/cooler/cheaper. The innovation comes from the software, which is what the app store is for.
I have to agree with Samsung a little here. This will halt the improving and enhancing of certain features in the long run.
Although kudos to Apple for inventing (or more like acquiring) the tech patents to give us the experience they do right now.
Although kudos to Apple for inventing (or more like acquiring) the tech patents to give us the experience they do right now.
There is always the opportunity to make things differently, better. Whether things were patented or not doesn't necessarily come down to a company or creator of a product deciding they want to "give" the idea to the world as something that can be copied. There are and have been very few people and companies that are so giving of their creations.
Take a very simple product, like aspirin, a Bayer company trademarked brand that is today a general product name, much like Kleenex is. I can guarantee you that Bayer wanted to control the brand and their invention of how to make aspirin more efficiently, but they were not able to. So you have a product that became ubiquitous in the market - a commodity if you will. It took another company searching for a way to produce a better pain medicine, to do things differently, that resulted in the creation of acetaminophen and after that another company looking for yet another alternative to acetaminophen to develop ibuprofen.
I think, that as much as the iPhone created the current form factor for smart cell phones, some company will change that at some point in the future. It could be Apple or someone else, but I can guarantee that we won't be using the same form factor in 10 years, maybe less.
It's in their culture? Haha... Now that they have a more monopoly and over the rectangle they can devote resources to other persons projects.