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Is it not good to aspire to be righteous?

Being self-righteous isn't a virtue, especially when one is inconsistent and hypocritical. My point is that if you are going to judge Apple by such extreme standards, then you must do so with other companies that you buy from, including commodities like petro, food, clothing, etc.

You will hardly find any major corporation without some seedy background.

Of course, I agree that one has to draw the line somewhere. I wouldn't buy products from a company that is heavily involved in arms dealings, for example, but to ban Apple because of a (fairly commonplace) patent lawsuit? Talk about melodramatic and naive.
 
Which were not stolen, but were built on an open source kernel

It was blatantly copied, not stolen. To steal would require to deprive the original owner of the design. Mint doesn't even pretend to only build on top of the kernel. They pretty much just copied the entire Ubuntu distribution and replaced/added some additional extensions.

The point I was trying to make is that innovation is not mutually exclusive of copying, and where I feel the current patent system is broken.
 
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No, my point is that Apple's patents are much too broad and current laws allow it to be so, which is why they need to be altered.

Well your point is well taken, but the currently law is the law, so unless congress changes the law that isn't going to happen.

No what needs to happen is these grown men need to get in a room and cross license these patents at reasonable rates so this patten crap goes away.
 
I fail to see how the American legal system can let a bunch of amateurs decide copyright issues. Anyway - needless to say: I'm disappointed with the verdict. Not that I should really care (in Europe, it's simply not possible to patent rectangles) - we'll be enjoying many great new Samsung devices over here, while in America, phone makers apparently have to go back to pre-Space-Odyssey designs with physical keypads and 2" displays.

If I were Samsung, I'd probably halt any parts shipments to Apple at this point. I know they make money on those - but in the long run, I'm not sure whether it pays off to support a competitor whose only innovation of late is to hand out free iPads to jury members.

jury2.jpg
 
I fail to see how the American legal system can let a bunch of amateurs decide copyright issues. Anyway - needless to say: I'm disappointed with the verdict. Not that I should really care (in Europe, it's simply not possible to patent rectangles) - we'll be enjoying many great new Samsung devices over here, while in America, phone makers apparently have to go back to pre-Space-Odyssey designs with physical keypads and 2" displays.

If I were Samsung, I'd probably halt any parts shipments to Apple at this point. I know they make money on those - but in the long run, I'm not sure whether it pays off to support a competitor whose only innovation of late is to hand out free iPads to jury members.

A jury of peers followed the current law in these United States. Rather you and I agree with the law is another topic all together. However, this jury with the evidence presented applied the current law and thus gave their verdict. Who cares if you are disappointed or that I am delighted.

In Europe you guys can't agree on two things, so don't even go there about what our laws won't allow that is just nonsense.

Samsung would get sued again and then sure enough owe Apple billions if the defaulted on their contracts over this verdict. Which of course still has an appeal process.

Also there are laws against giving jury members free gifts, but I am sure there is no such law in Europe. LOL Do you guys still wear those stupid gray wigs in court like in Parliament? The picture is cute and I am sure there are folk such as yourself that actually believe it. hehehe
 
let me do the samsung bit here....

I have been a member here for more than 10 years. I really disagree with this jury, the trade dress and some of these patents, not all.

I have purchased my last Apple product. I will not blindly support Apple again. I'm sure they will continue to make huge profits. I just won't contribute to them.

Apple, next time you're down in the dumps like you were in 96, I won't be the loyal customer I was. Your trade dress is simply ridiculous. I frankly can't believe it was upheld.



:p:p:p
 
A jury of peers followed the current law in these United States. Rather you and I agree with the law is another topic all together. However, this jury with the evidence presented applied the current law and thus gave their verdict. Who cares if you are disappointed or that I am delighted.

In Europe you guys can't agree on two things, so don't even go there about what our laws won't allow that is just nonsense.

Samsung would get sued again and then sure enough owe Apple billions if the defaulted on their contracts over this verdict. Which of course still has an appeal process.

Also there are laws against giving jury members free gifts, but I am sure there is no such law in Europe. LOL Do you guys still wear those stupid gray wigs in court like in Parliament? The picture is cute and I am sure there are folk such as yourself that actually believe it. hehehe

Oh, I'm not saying they didn't follow the law - I just think it's insane to have juries decide patent cases. I'm familiar with the jury selection process - there's simply no way to make sure the jury members aren't partial - especially in a case where 80% of the population uses devices made by the manufacturers involved in the case. We used to have jury trials here as well (and no - judges never wore wigs in Switzerland. Perhaps some wore Toupés - but that's hard to tell from old pictures) but we got rid of them as the cases started to get complicated.

As there are no juries here, you're right: there's no law against giving them free gifts.

I didn't suggest Samsung should default on their contracts - but nobody forces them to renew them in the future.

If you seriously believe US copyright laws work better than European ones, you're delusional. The US legal system is in bitter need for a general overhaul.
 
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I have been a member here for more than 10 years. I really disagree with this jury, the trade dress and some of these patents, not all.

I have purchased my last Apple product. I will not blindly support Apple again. I'm sure they will continue to make huge profits. I just won't contribute to them.

Apple, next time you're down in the dumps like you were in 96, I won't be the loyal customer I was. Your trade dress is simply ridiculous. I frankly can't believe it was upheld.



:p:p:p

Well the try was in Apples home down and the fact that the judge had to toss out multiple juries that were Apple fan boys/girls speaks volumes as well. More than likely will just be among the long list to get the cased appealed and retried somewhere else.
 
If you seriously believe US copyright laws work better than European ones, you're delusional. The US legal system is in bitter need for a general overhaul.

Oh I think our legal system works pretty well. Clearly the patent laws themselves need to be looked at and certainly fixed, but these laws for many years have not truly been tested to the degree they are now. I'd say that is true in Europe as well.

It all goes back to what I've said time and time again. These companies need to bring their CEO's together in a room to hammer out cross licensing patent agreements and be done with this once and for all.

Concerning this verdict I do think Samsung purposely and willfully copied the iPhone. Hell their own internal documents all but say they did. Its just too many coincidences for that not to be true. You don't have to be a patent law expert to see that.
 
Been a member here for more than a decade. I strongly disagree with this jury, the trade dress and some of these patents, not all.

I have bought my last Apple product. I will not support Apple again. I'm sure they will continue to make huge profits. I just won't contribute to them.

Apple, next time you're down in the dumps like you were in 96, I won't be the loyal customer I was. Your trade dress is simply ridiculous. I frankly can't believe it was upheld.

Any resemblance with this post and my post is just a coincidence.
Dont criticize it, as it will hurt the consumer.
 
"Stealing isn't right", what a joke!

"Stealing isn't right" except for when Apple does it. How many times have third party developers poured their hearts and souls into developing a platform for Macs and/or Mac OS only to have Apple implement those features into the next major OS update, literally ripping those developers off and putting them out of business. iTunes, Widgets and some many other Mac OS features we now enjoy on our Macs are direct ripoffs. Apple hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.
 
I agree with Apple the chances of me buying an Android running smartphone or tablet is most possibly lower than zero. Samsung should stick to what their good at TV's and other domestic items
 
What a pathetic and "patently" false statement from Samsung.

If you use another companies patented ideas or concepts... you should pay a royalty fee. That's how business is done. PERIOD. And not just in the tech industry... in ALL industries.

Now if you decide to not pay... and you choose to copy that idea... and redress it... you risk infringing on a patent.

Samsung... chose that route, the jury weighed the evidence and found them guilty. Period.

PERIOD.

Now... let the REAL innovation begin!

----------

"Stealing isn't right" except for when Apple does it. How many times have third party developers poured their hearts and souls into developing a platform for Macs and/or Mac OS only to have Apple implement those features into the next major OS update, literally ripping those developers off and putting them out of business. iTunes, Widgets and some many other Mac OS features we now enjoy on our Macs are direct ripoffs. Apple hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

If developers care that much about their ideas... like ANY good business should... then they should PATENT those ideas.

If they do not... it's fair game. THAT... is the difference.
 
Vanish, Samsung, Just Get Lost

Vanish, Samsung, Just Get Lost!
Stealing is not right, you disgusting evil company! Didn't your mother tell you that?!!!:mad:
 
Although I do believe a few of Apple's patent claims were valid, the rest were just BS and completely unwarranted Seriously, a patent on a rectangle? Come on.

Which is why Apple never got the 2.5 billion it was after. Some people are complaining because they think it will be the end of innovation, not so. Samsung can quite legally use the Apple patented stuff if they PAY for the rights to use it.

At the end of the day copying isn't innovation. To be able to design a "better way" is innovation, and I hope Samsung and others will grab the bull by the horns and do something that is better than Apple. That is true competition.
 
Maybe it's just me, but Samsung's statement appears to be not just arrogant, but also pretty defiant near the end.

Actually that statement makes wonder about them. Especially the comment about competition.
 
I dont think Apple is being a "bully" or going overboard.

Apple has always had high standards, why should they let Samsung copy them?

Its really pathetic how far Samsung has went. They copied the iphone 3G design with the galaxy, and then went as far as to copy the home screen layout right down to the icon. You can say its ridiculous that there is a patent for a rectactangle all you want, but its obvious Apple bougth that patent only to screw samsung for copying.

Samsung copied the iPad with the galaxy tab

Samsung copied Apple by using the same actors that were originally for an Apple ad for their ad

Samsung even made an ipod touch competitor.

They have ZERO innovation.

Samsung's defense was that Apple is evil because they made patents for rectangles with rounded edges, implying that is a generic design (which it is) and that is why they were sued. Oh really? If Apple is so bad then why arent they suing Sony, Acer, Motorola, HTC, and all of those other cell phone companies? MAYBE because those companies arent copying atleast nearly as bad as Samsung.

The ipod came out first, then everyone else copied. The iphone came out first, then everyone else copied. The ipad came out first, then everyone else copied
 
Glad to see Samsung will really be innovating now. I'd like to see an entire package of innovation, not certain leaps made possible by the copying of other components they saw as unimportant.

I agree with this. I went to a large electronics retailer here in Spain and asked where the iPhones were and was sent to the Samsungs. When I pointed this out, the response was, "Well, it's the same, just cheaper."

Just cheaper is right. Anyone who thinks that stealing the ideas of other companies advances innovation is just wrong. All Android has allowed for, in my opinion, is for many companies to maximize profits by putting together a Frankestein device of sub-par components with a free OS slapped on top of it. There is absolutely nothing innovative about what they do.

Features commonly available on Smartphones today - e-mail, stock updates, web browsers, weather updates, etc. have existed since the 90s. But they were an absolute nightmare to use and the data plans a nightmare to figure out. What Apple did was put a lot of effort in determining how to make these features as usable and accessible as possible. The fact that my mom can now send me emails from her iPhone after years of never being able to figure out how to do it on her Motorola just goes to show the innovation Apple has brought to consumer electronics.
 
Samsung issued this statement

Samsung issued this statement:
不幸的是,专利法可以被操纵,给一个公司垄断了带圆角的矩形,或正在改善,每天由三星和其他公司的技术。消费者有选择权,他们知道他们所购买的,当他们购买三星产品。在这种情况下,或在战斗中,法院和法庭正在发动世界各地,其中一些已经拒绝了很多苹果的说法,这是不是最后的字。三星将不断创新,为消费者提供了选择
Google Translation: Patent law shamed us. We like Apple simplicity very much and want it big for customers. Samsung not finished manipulating court system for innovative copying.
 
It's not like Apple has never stolen other developers' ideas (the Xeros graphic interface and Macintosh).

"Good artists copy, great artists steal". P.Picasso
 
Yep. I agree with Samsung. Apple is being a straight bully.

Samsung @ 148 billion revenue > Apple @ 108 billion

Looks more like they’re “punching above their weight”, rather than “bullying”.
But thats just an opinion....
 
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