Apple and Sony 'iRadio' Negotiations Stalling Over Skipped Songs

[Piggie]

On the other hand.

(Another point of view)

Do you expect to just wander in a move theater, sit down for a few mins, think, naaa, don't like this, and wander out and not pay?

No, you don't pay you don't get in.

Movie thetres don't operate a try before you buy policy.
You buy the ticket and you are then allowed in to see the film

If you don't like it, well, don't expect a refund.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

Just cut Sony out of the deal. No Sony music on iRadio. Watch how long it takes for Sony to come crawling back. When they do, charge them more than the other labels.

 

[blasto2236]

On the other hand.

(Another point of view)

Do you expect to just wander in a move theater, sit down for a few mins, think, naaa, don't like this, and wander out and not pay?

No, you don't pay you don't get in.

Movie thetres don't operate a try before you buy policy.
You buy the ticket and you are then allowed in to see the film

If you don't like it, well, don't expect a refund.

This is a poor analogy for a number of reasons. For one thing, there aren't "trailers" for music and albums. Movies allow you to "try before you buy" in that way.

And beyond that, 99% of theaters will offer a refund if the viewer was dissatisfied with the film. At a much more significant loss than someone skipping a song on Pandora.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

On the other hand.

(Another point of view)

Do you expect to just wander in a move theater, sit down for a few mins, think, naaa, don't like this, and wander out and not pay?

No, you don't pay you don't get in.

Movie thetres don't operate a try before you buy policy.
You buy the ticket and you are then allowed in to see the film

If you don't like it, well, don't expect a refund.

Where I live, if you walk out of a movie in the first few minutes, they give you a refund. If you sit through 15 or 20, not so much.

 

[komodrone]

Yes, because people using services from other companies might start using Apple's, and places where Sony will get paid for skips will have less traffic, thus eating into its revenues.

1. "0 people using it..."
2. It's a joke.

 

[Ralf The Dog]

1. "0 people using it..."
2. It's a joke.

Zero people using it, because, it has yet to be released. I am quite sure, when it does, it will destroy the competition. Apple has to big of a music library and to large of an installed user base with all of their IOS devices.

 

[Piggie]

Still seems stupid

Seems simple

You either make music VERY cheap so millions think, of it's cheap I'll but it as it's convenient to buy it on my mobile? device

Or people will just get free pirate copies

And they way they have screwed the population for years, no-one really feels any sympathy over screwing them over.

So either they get with the times, or lose.

 

[lolkthxbai]

On the other hand.

(Another point of view)

Do you expect to just wander in a move theater, sit down for a few mins, think, naaa, don't like this, and wander out and not pay?

No, you don't pay you don't get in.

Movie thetres don't operate a try before you buy policy.
You buy the ticket and you are then allowed in to see the film

If you don't like it, well, don't expect a refund.

However, in a movie theater, you have the names of the movies announced that are playing so you can make a choice before you watch the movie. Moreover, its common to have a movie trailer made to advertise the movie which features scenes from the movie as a way to preview the movie before seeing it. If Sony songs were announced before being played then you could choose to skip it or not. If its skipped, no music is ever played and Apple doesn't pay royalty on it. If it plays, it can no longer be skipped and Apple pays the royalty. Everyone is happy.

 

[powerstrokin]

I use Slacker Radio, myself. I always liked how it picked music much better than Pandora.

 

[gri]

Yep, same here. I usually listen to my iTunes music most of the time. I don't like adverts and am willing to pay for an ad-free service if it's reasonably priced and I can skip any amount of songs I desire. But apparently that type of service doesn't exist.

Its called Spotify (not working for them or any $$ interest, just have a premium account).Can listen and stream as much as I want and carry 3333 songs offline as well.

 

[powerstrokin]

Its called Spotify (not working for them or any $$ interest, just have a premium account).Can listen and stream as much as I want and carry 3333 songs offline as well.

Slacker is the same way... $9.99 gets you ad free and unlimited skips as well as artist only channels, custom playlists, songs/albums on demand, downloading of songs/artists/albums/playlists/channels for offline play and other stuff. Now, occasionally there is a 15 second "ad" saying things like "You're listening to (channel x) on Slacker Radio" but that's about it, and pretty reasonable to me.

Plus Slacker has way more songs than Pandora.

I don't work for them I just enjoy their service.

 

[IbisDoc]

Sony is correct about this. When you listen to the radio, can you just skip to the next song? No. You can change the station, or wait until the song ends. It's not iPlaylist, it's iRadio. If someone just wants to play sings that they like, use iTunes Match.

 

[gnasher729]

Of course Gnasher if your such an amazing financial investment banking expert, perhaps you should enlighten us all if you have millions held up in Apple stock? But if you want to state you know better then these people then go ahead.

That's the old "ad hominem" attack. Can't argue with the argument, attack the guy. I suppose after an ad hominem attack like that, pointing out the fact that your spelling isn't up to scratch should be allowed

I didn't discuss financials, I discussed innovation. Anyone who claims that Samsung is more innovative than Apple shows that he or she has seriously no clue about innovation.

 

[samcraig]

Sometimes its just PR speak to add pressure to get a deal done

I'm well aware as I've been in PR and Marketing for over 20 years. But it's an empty statement to the players in the game since they know where everyone is in the deal.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I don't think the labels should be charging the providers for skipped songs. If it wasn't listened to, then you don't need to get paid.

The music and movie labels are the most annoying companies in America when it comes to the entertainment industry.

Exactly. Maybe charge if people listen to more than 90 seconds (maybe even more than 30) but anything less than that should not have any royalties.

----------

Sony is correct about this. When you listen to the radio, can you just skip to the next song? No. You can change the station, or wait until the song ends. It's not iPlaylist, it's iRadio. If someone just wants to play sings that they like, use iTunes Match.

The point is to update radio from the 1950s to at least the internet age. Users don't want to pay for something that exactly mimics radio; internet radio stations already exist and are quite good. That's not what Apple wants to do. Sony is not correct about this.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Sony is correct about this. When you listen to the radio, can you just skip to the next song? No. You can change the station, or wait until the song ends. It's not iPlaylist, it's iRadio. If someone just wants to play sings that they like, use iTunes Match.

But, my learned friend, we aren't talking about 'radio' we are talking about streaming tunes and the ability to 'skip' tracks and not listen to them, and yet still pay for them...

 

[3282868]

I don't understand how this effects consumers. Does charging for skipped songs increase the subscription costs for the user or is this based on a non-subscription plan? Charging for skipped songs is tantamount to charging for movie trailers. This seems rather aggressive.

Then again, I'm not interested in streaming services. I'm picky about my music choices, 7 times out of 10 I don't like what's played on SiriusXM in my car, I use it for weather and traffic nav (which sucks you can't get that separate from their music service).

 

[IbisDoc]

Exactly. Maybe charge if people listen to more than 90 seconds (maybe even more than 30) but anything less than that should not have any royalties.

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The point is to update radio from the 1950s to at least the internet age. Users don't want to pay for something that exactly mimics radio; internet radio stations already exist and are quite good. That's not what Apple wants to do. Sony is not correct about this.

Pretty sure that the radios in my car and in my house are 2013 models.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Nope, I was thinking more along the lines of the current 'reality' of life, you know the one where every website you visit, every email you send, every track you download, every purchase you make, every SMS you send etc is all recorded in some way or another, one for businesses and their uses and two for governments.

As for the rest of your post, Sony aren't doing ANYTHING wrong, not ONE THING. What you think just because it's Apple EVERY corporation no matter what should roll on their backs and give in to every demand Apple makes? Or do you think they have every right to actually conduct business and demand the same rules for everyone they deal with?

It just hurts you because you somehow believe, like everyone else here, that Sony is some kind of bully purely because it refuses to let Apple have more for less. No one is allowed to be a corporation and conduct business when it comes to Apple because Apple have every right the get what they want regardless of what the other party wants, right?

I'll just start with a 'cut and paste' here to clear the air: "That's the old "ad hominem" attack. Can't argue with the argument, attack the guy. I suppose after an ad hominem attack like that, pointing out the fact that your spelling isn't up to scratch should be allowed"

Sony ISN'T doing anything wrong. True. They can buck what appears to be the rest of their industry and drive their corporation into the ground. They can also exploit the contracts with their 'artists' and forbid them from joining in too, but none of it makes much sense. I mean, if the statement about the other labels being 'all in' is somehow correct and truthful. Sony can, and often has, stuck their heads up their butts when their competition has seen the sun, and the scenery, and out maneuvered them to greater profit and notoriety. But, yes, you are right: Sony can thumb their noses at the rest of the world, and cripple themselves to their hearts content. Eventually their shareholders will wake up and send these geniuses packing, because after all what use is it to have a product and limit the markets for it, and some money is better than none, and in this case APPLE IS DOING ALL THE WORK!

But I could be wrong, and I bow to your ad hominem attacks and say that Sony is totally in the right. They should stop ANY method to help market their products, and continue to be a boil on the rear end of the industry. I don't predict a very long life for them, especially if their artists start walking... But, yes, they can do whatever they want.

Maybe they are still mad that Apple no only stole their lunch and ate it, but their dinner, breakfast, and their desert too! It's got to burn them that they screwed the Walkman market so bad... Oh, and the smart phone market too...

But what do I know. I'm just a consumer...

 

[IbisDoc]

But, my learned friend, we aren't talking about 'radio' we are talking about streaming tunes and the ability to 'skip' tracks and not listen to them, and yet still pay for them...

So you can buy the songs you like and play them to your heart's content on iTunes Match with no terms, or listen to Sony's catalog based on genre, year, artist, whatever you like, and pay for the access to their catalog based on the terms negotiated by Sony and Apple. Heaven forbid they want payment for streaming access to their catalog.

 

[apolloa]

That's the old "ad hominem" attack. Can't argue with the argument, attack the guy. I suppose after an ad hominem attack like that, pointing out the fact that your spelling isn't up to scratch should be allowed

I didn't discuss financials, I discussed innovation. Anyone who claims that Samsung is more innovative than Apple shows that he or she has seriously no clue about innovation.

You see, you have shown your denial there, how can anyone possibly tell you Samsung are more innovative? Yet it is these people who keep Apple in business at the end of the day, it's a publicly traded corporation and if the holders don't like what they see, they will sell as has been displayed.
But you fight the good cause mate and believe you know better then market and financial experts etc, because you obviously 'think' you know better.
No "ad hominem" attack here mate, you have claimed you know better then experts paid to know these things and are very successful at knowing these things. Don't get your knickers in a twist when I challenge your claims.

 

[apolloa]

Sony ISN'T doing anything wrong. True. They can buck what appears to be the rest of their industry and drive their corporation into the ground. They can also exploit the contracts with their 'artists' and forbid them from joining in too, but none of it makes much sense. I mean, if the statement about the other labels being 'all in' is somehow correct and truthful. Sony can, and often has, stuck their heads up their butts when their competition has seen the sun, and the scenery, and out maneuvered them to greater profit and notoriety. But, yes, you are right: Sony can thumb their noses at the rest of the world, and cripple themselves to their hearts content. Eventually their shareholders will wake up and send these geniuses packing, because after all what use is it to have a product and limit the markets for it, and some money is better than none, and in this case APPLE IS DOING ALL THE WORK!

Knda failing to see how Sony is restricting anything here? They are working out one part of this contract, and yet they sell their music through every other outlet like everyone else including iTunes. Apple hasn't even launched this service so to claim they are limiting their markets is far reaching to say the least.
So to you they 'stuck their thumbs up their butts' is pretty far reaching and a blinkered opinion. They are still in business. they must be doing something right? Oh and Sony are also working as much as Apple seeing as Apple is only reselling someone else's property.

But I could be wrong, and I bow to your ad hominem attacks and say that Sony is totally in the right. They should stop ANY method to help market their products, and continue to be a boil on the rear end of the industry. I don't predict a very long life for them, especially if their artists start walking... But, yes, they can do whatever they want.

hahaha, you don't predict a very long life for Sony! Your funny, well I predict Apples shares will drop again by the end of the year and they will be laying people off by the end of next year, because more investors will loose confidence and sell their stocks.
And yes, Sony IS totally in the right, you do know how business works right?

Maybe they are still mad that Apple no only stole their lunch and ate it, but their dinner, breakfast, and their desert too! It's got to burn them that they screwed the Walkman market so bad... Oh, and the smart phone market too...

But what do I know. I'm just a consumer...

Yes I'm sure they are, damn those tablets and smartphones Sony keeps making and selling. they must be really really really mad at Apple, surprised they are even doing business with them to be honest well you at least admitted to being just a consumer.

 

[dba415]

Sony is just protecting their property trying to get a better deal for them, Apple is doing the same for their end. It's called negotiation, and it happens all the time.

 

[iChrist]

While Apple's music service is said to be more similar to Pandora than Spotify...

Doesn't everyone realize Apple already has a dead product if this is true?

So what if Apple's iRadio lets you skip or rewind, with Spotify you can make playlists out of virtually any song made, and play and stream them AT WILL.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Sony should be paying Apple every time someone skips a track. ...for the information.

In any other business, that'd be seen as valuable marketing data.



But of course, the labels prefer the "throw crap at a wall and... who cares what sticks, charge the wall, the pitcher, and anyone walking by, for every turd we threw anyway, then whine to congress to pass laws that say anyone that doesn't pay us gets convicted of treason and heresy and burned at the stake" model.