Apple Announces Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther)

[sososowhat]

Yes

Originally posted by jxyama
serious question:

if i buy panther and install it on my primary machine, can i legally use the jaguar that used to be on the primary machine on a secondary machine?

There is nothing morally or ethically or legally wrong with doing what you suggest. The OS that came with your current primary machine wasn't sold to be used only on that machine. You're taking it off that machine (& installing Panther) and putting it on another one. Since it's not an upgrade, but a full OS, Apple can't insist that you throw away the old OS. It's like removing the superdrive from one machine & installing it on another. imho.

 

[pjtro2]

Up-to-date Program - Ordered Pre 8th Oct.

I ordered my new 1.25ghz 17" on the 2nd October, and it is not due to ship til the 15th October.
After having difficulty finding in this forum if I was eligible for the update, I managed to find out:

I spoke with someone at apple store (Australia) and they said that the ship date is also the invoice date, so I am eligible.

Hope this is helpful to anyone who ordered around the same time.

 

[MasterMac]

Re: Up-to-date Program - Ordered Pre 8th Oct.

Originally posted by pjtro2
I ordered my new 1.25ghz 17" on the 2nd October, and it is not due to ship til the 15th October.
After having difficulty finding in this forum if I was eligible for the update, I managed to find out:

I spoke with someone at apple store (Australia) and they said that the ship date is also the invoice date, so I am eligible.

Hope this is helpful to anyone who ordered around the same time.

I physically picked up my PB on September 17th and I qualify for the up-to-date program, so I'm pretty sure most other people will too (hopefully) 🙂

 

[pjtro2]

Well the bulk of this thread has been about that very topic, and there seems to be some wild inconsistencies with who has been able to register for up-to-date and who can't.

Has any BTO's since been in touch with Apple and qualify?

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
A few questions posted here (including some by me) were not answered, so I tried something I'm not used to: I lifted my fingers off the keyboard and dialed the phone to get the answers from Apple!

By Thor!! I never thought of that. How... refreshing!!

 

[JasonBurns]

Question about 10.3 and Student Developer...

Hey Guys, quick question for you. I just bought the new PB 15AL, the day it came out, and Apple is saying I'm not eligible for the up-to-date program. Do any of you think or know if I'll get a free copy of it because I am a student developer?

Thanks for your help guys!
Jason

 

[NicoMan]

Re: Question about 10.3 and Student Developer...

Originally posted by JasonBurns
Hey Guys, quick question for you. I just bought the new PB 15AL, the day it came out, and Apple is saying I'm not eligible for the up-to-date program. Do any of you think or know if I'll get a free copy of it because I am a student developer?

Thanks for your help guys!
Jason

There is a thread somewhere about people in your position. Apparently a lot of them have been able to register for the up-to-date program. You just follow the link on the website and enter your serial number (without the - ). There might be more to it though...

 

[yamabushi]

Originally posted by Sabbath
The one thing I find really annoying is their pricing policy, for us students in the UK, I expect to pay more for everything in the UK than you lucky people in the US. What has really riled me though is the difference in edu discount.

I just find it ridiculous that the difference in prices between countries is significantly different for a normal user and someone with edu discount.

Price differences often (but not always) reflect the difference in the cost of doing business in a particular country for a particular company. If Apple had been founded by a couple of guys from Cambridge, we in the US would probably be paying more for Panther than those of you in the UK.

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by yamabushi
Price differences often (but not always) reflect the difference in the cost of doing business in a particular country for a particular company. If Apple had been founded by a couple of guys from Cambridge, we in the US would probably be paying more for Panther than those of you in the UK.

You forget that Apple Europe is based in Ireland, where tax on companies' profits is a mere 12.5%. Besides that, I don't think that it cost them a lot more to do their business there. I think it's more a question (to go back to the original rant) of Apple being really agressive at subsidising students and teachers IN THE US. That's all. Nothing to do with cost of doing business.

 

[1macker1]

Will Panther include iDVD 3.X. Apple was real slick by giving iMovie upgrade as a free download, but the new features only work with iDVD 3, which forces you have to purchase iLife again.

 

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by 1macker1
Will Panther include iDVD 3.X.

All evidence says no, which I find annoying. Some have defended Apple by saying that not all users have a DVD drive, or that iDVD won't fit on the Panther CD-ROM. But not all users have a PC on their network either, and that didn't stop Apple from including lots of Windows-networking features (and lots of other features that benefit only a minority of users). And for $129 they can afford to throw a DVD with iDVD into the Panther box. Remember, Steve Jobs said pretty clearly that iDVD would have been a free download all along if it hadn't been so large.

 

[simX]

Re: Panther pre-installed?

Originally posted by NicoMan
Now for another 'sorta' on-topic question? When do you guys think we can expect Panther to be pre-installed on newly built Macs?
If I remember correctly, last year, with Jaguar, some people received their Macs with Jag pre-installed a couple of days before the official launch. Am i right?

Just to add something to the mix -- I'd wait at least a month or so before getting a new Mac if you want Panther to be preinstalled.

I got my 17" G4 iMac around Sept. 1st (2002) or so, and I got OS X 10.1 preinstalled, but Jaguar update CDs bundled. It hasn't been a complete pain, but if I had to erase my hard drive (due to problems or something), then I'd have to install OS X 10.1 and then Jaguar on top of it, which lengthens the install time. But I've been pretty lucky with my install, as it hasn't broken since I first installed Jaguar (even when I installed the original 10.2.8 update 🙂 ).

Of course, buying Panther will solve this problem. And I've already done that.

[LISA SIMPSON VOICE]Just ten more days, just ten more days. *squeezes stress ball*[/LISA SIMPSON VOICE] 😉

 

[Cap'n Hector]

Re: Re: Panther pre-installed?

Originally posted by simX
I got my 17" G4 iMac around Sept. 1st (2002) or so, and I got OS X 10.1 preinstalled, but Jaguar update CDs bundled. It hasn't been a complete pain, but if I had to erase my hard drive (due to problems or something), then I'd have to install OS X 10.1 and then Jaguar on top of it, which lengthens the install time. But I've been pretty lucky with my install, as it hasn't broken since I first installed Jaguar (even when I installed the original 10.2.8 update 🙂 ).

According to what I've heard, the Panther upgrade CDs will have an "Archive/Install" option.

😀

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
All evidence says no, which I find annoying. Some have defended Apple by saying that not all users have a DVD drive, or that iDVD won't fit on the Panther CD-ROM. But not all users have a PC on their network either, and that didn't stop Apple from including lots of Windows-networking features (and lots of other features that benefit only a minority of users). And for $129 they can afford to throw a DVD with iDVD into the Panther box. Remember, Steve Jobs said pretty clearly that iDVD would have been a free download all along if it hadn't been so large.

Yeah, but despite all that rationalizing you're missing the one-and-only important factor: only people who bought iMacs with Superdrives are allowed to use iDVD. Nobody else has a license to use it. What kind of sense would it make to distribute iDVD to everybody who buys Panther when a substantial fraction of those folks won't be allowed, legally, to use it?

 

[1macker1]

I have another newbie question. When i upgrade to Panther, will i still be able to boot up in Jaguar and OS9 Classic?


FYI, i had a co-worker who just bought a PB 15' and he was told to go ahead and order now, so that the PB would come loaded with Jaguar and they would give him Panther for the 19.99 discount. They said to do this because if he waited, then Panther would be the only OS loaded on the PB, and being that Panther is a new relsease, it's bound to have problems, so Jaguar would be the safety net if something goes wrong with Panther.

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by 1macker1
I have another newbie question. When i upgrade to Panther, will i still be able to boot up in Jaguar and OS9 Classic?

Yes and no. If you upgrade, you will not be able to boot into Jaguar. (There are ways around that, however.) If you have hardware that's still capable of booting OS 9, then you poor thing--er, I mean yes, you will be able to boot into OS 9.

That's if you upgrade. There are many options for installing a new operating system, and that's just one of them.

 

[1macker1]

when i bought my iMac in Feb. it was able to boot up in OS9 Classic and Jaguar, due to the fact many applications were still only working in OS 9.

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
Yes and no. If you upgrade, you will not be able to boot into Jaguar. (There are ways around that, however.) If you have hardware that's still capable of booting OS 9, then you poor thing--er, I mean yes, you will be able to boot into OS 9.

That's if you upgrade. There are many options for installing a new operating system, and that's just one of them.

 

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
Yeah, but despite all that rationalizing you're missing the one-and-only important factor: only people who bought iMacs with Superdrives are allowed to use iDVD. Nobody else has a license to use it. What kind of sense would it make to distribute iDVD to everybody who buys Panther when a substantial fraction of those folks won't be allowed, legally, to use it?

My point was similar to yours, but with a different conclusion. iDVD, like iChat AV, Rendezvous, Windows networking, Finder-burning of DVDs, AirPort Extreme, etc., is only useful to those with certain system configurations and hardware. If Panther included only features that every single Mac user could use, it would have Safari, Exposé, and, um, little else.

If your point is that you can't buy a DVD-writable drive for use with iDVD after the fact (as opposed to an iSight, which you can buy to use with iChat AV after the fact), then I agree there is a distinction. I think you are saying that, in your opinion, they shouldn't give the software (which they claimed was free) to those who can't use it, and therefore shouldn't give it to anyone. My opinion is that they should give it to everyone so it will be available to the people who can use it legally.

Unless Steve is still deciding, and waiting for you and I to issue our joint recommendation, Jeff, I guess our opinions don't much matter, do they? 🙁

 

[MasterMac]

Umm...if they bundled iDVD with OS X, I would expect the cost to go from $129 to $179, because you all should know that iDVD by itself costs $49. I think that's the main reason why Apple doesn't include iDVD with OS X, which is the same reason why they don't bundle AppleWorks with it, or other apps that you have to pay for.

 

[1macker1]

Where can i purchase iDVD? I dont see in the Apple store. where did you come up with this pricing?

Originally posted by MasterMac
Umm...if they bundled iDVD with OS X, I would expect the cost to go from $129 to $179, because you all should know that iDVD by itself costs $49. I think that's the main reason why Apple doesn't include iDVD with OS X, which is the same reason why they don't bundle AppleWorks with it, or other apps that you have to pay for.

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by 1macker1
Where can i purchase iDVD? I dont see in the Apple store. where did you come up with this pricing?

Look under "iLife." The only way you can get iDVD is by either buying a Superdrive-equipped machine new or buying the iLife retail package.

 

[simX]

Originally posted by 1macker1
when i bought my iMac in Feb. it was able to boot up in OS9 Classic and Jaguar, due to the fact many applications were still only working in OS 9.

Were you able to actually BOOT UP into Mac OS 9? I thought that Apple disabled Mac OS 9-booting on all 2003 Macs? If you bought an iMac in February of 2003, I believe that you should only be able to start Mac OS 9 using the Classic environment.

To clarify the question about whether you can still boot into Jaguar and Mac OS 9 after installing Panther: yes, provided that you install Panther on a completely separate hard drive or partition.

Unlike Mac OS 9, Mac OS X is not self-contained in a single folder, so you can't have multiple versions of Mac OS X on the same partition, and you can't easily drag-and-drop-install Mac OS X onto another hard drive. That means that Jaguar and Panther must be on completely different partitions in order for you to be able to boot into either one.

Note that Mac OS 9 can be on any partition, regardless of whether you have installed Mac OS X on it or not. Obviously, though, you have to have a Mac capable of booting Mac OS 9 in order to be able to boot up into it.

 

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by simX
Note that Mac OS 9 can be on any partition, regardless of whether you have installed Mac OS X on it or not.

It's also worth noting that if you have an OS 9 System Folder anywhere on your machine, OS X's Classic launcher will find it. A few days ago I hooked up a portable FireWire to transfer some files. I accidentally double-clicked a Classic application (an installer, as I recall) and was stunned to find Classic launching! I haven't had OS 9 on my machine for over a year now. The Classic launcher found the OS 9 System Folder on the FireWire and booted off of it.

Cool, but surprising. I'm not used to stuff "just working" when I don't want it to.