Apple Announces New Apple TV With Siri, App Store, New User Interface and Remote

[jettredmont]

In this neighborhood... in that neighborhood... we can play that game all day. I don't exactly live in Orange County, CA or among the 1%. Also, if we waited for everyone in the world to be on equal ISP footing, tech would stagnate. As an American, I'm accustomed to getting hosed for how much bandwidth I get versus how much I pay. But getting 25Mbps isn't a hardship. Truly.

Average bandwidth as of Q1 2015, according to Akamai, was 11.9Mbps. 76% have over 4Mbps (needed for HD streaming), but only 44% of US households have more than 10Mbps, and only 22% have more than 15Mbps (needed for UHD streaming at good quality). Going up to 25Mbps gets much more rarified. They don't have whole-country stats here, but they do break it down by state, with Washington DC topping the list at 18% over 25Mbps, then Delaware (15%), Utah (13%), Virginia (11%), and Massachusetts (10%). This is not a situation ripe for single-stream 4k streaming at good or high quality to take off, because 90% of households can not participate in even one stream at a time.

I can't provide a direct link, but you can download the report here: https://content.akamai.com/PG2095-Q12015-SOTI-Report.html

My overall point is this. A lot of people like myself are left scratching our heads over this because Apple is more than doubling the price for the new Apple TV, and for what? A beefier A8 chip and newish OS, sure; also a new glossy (ick) remote, and the app store.

Yes, hardware which itself sells for $200+ is being sold in a $150-200 package. I'm not sure what the head scratching is about.

Meanwhile, they take out optical, leave the hardwire ethernet at Base100, and leave out HDMI 2.0/4K support. If people want to use Apple TV for 1080p content, they still have the A5 option, which still works just fine if that's their interest.

Optical is out because most people don't use it, and those who do (as seen here) can easily provide a break-out box. If you have a newish home theater system the HDMI switching will switch the audio and video both, which is why the TOSlink connectors were found to be seldom used.

100Mbps (effective ~80Mbps) is much higher than even a high-quality UHD stream. The AppleTV is only going to be transferring one stream at a time. Why would you want anything faster, other than being able to claim that everything on your network is gigabit?

The older single-core-A5-based device will not be able to run the new apps designed for the power of the A8 processor.I'm not sure how much if any of the newer tvOS will make it to that device, but I strongly suspect if any of it makes it there it will be missing the key features of universal search and siri, at least.

This was a time for Apple to shine with the Apple TV in the face of heated competition with Roku and Chromecast, and blooming markets like 4K. Quite underwhelming.

True, to some extent. But, I'm no market analyst, just a consumer of the goodies. For me, this AppleTV sounds great. I'll let the highly-paid analysts of the industry and product managers at Apple worry about how this plays in the competitive one-upmanship landscape of set-top / set-connected devices.

 

[hipnetic]

Disappointed. Misc thoughts:

- No 4k support for a device announced at the same time as a new iPhone that will shoot 4k video. Regardless of whether or not you think 4k is still too early/niche of a technology, this disconnect sticks out like a sore thumb. Apple is simultaneously touting the ability to shoot 4k video on your iPhone while basically telling you that you'll have to get your family to gather around a 4k desktop monitor in order to watch the end result.

- The obsession with glaring white backgrounds on the iPhone/iPad was bad enough, but I hoped they would have enough sense to know that a glaring white background on a big screen TV in a home theater environment is a bad idea. Ive's overrated design sense strikes again.

- If the box is capable of console-quality gaming, they sure didn't demo any of that. Instead, it looks like an Ouya or, at best, a Wii (1st gen).

- Hardware-wise, it seems very confusing to me as a consumer why this thing should command a price that's more than double that of the current Apple TV. It has an app store, but there's no reason why the current-gen ATV couldn't have done that (granted, you wouldn't be able to store as many apps). Really, as a consumer, it looks like they're asking me to spend more than twice the price just to get a fancy new remote with Siri integration.

I'm more of a videophile, and I'm not a gamer, so I was watching and hoping to see the following things announced:
- iTunes movie support for UltraViolet movies. I've now purchased a good number of movies that are UV-supported, and I watch them via VUDU on my TiVo. It would be great if they supported this, but I didn't expect them to, so this wasn't a shock. Barring this, though, it would have been great if they offered something like 'iTunes Match' for movies. A bunch of my VUDU movies are in my collection because I was able to use VUDU's Disc-to-Digital app which reads in my DVD or Blu-ray and for a couple of bucks adds the digital copy to my collection.
- Support for 24Hz framerate. Again, my TiVo wins here because VUDU on my TiVo supports 24Hz. As a videophile, the added smoothness of watching movies in their proper framerate is valuable to me.
- 4k video. I don't have a need for this now, and probably won't for some time, but if they're adding support for it on the iPhone and launching this new, much more expensive, Apple TV / tvOS platform and trying to get app/game developers on board, it seems like they should be *ahead* of the curve, not behind it. They're obsessed with increasing resolution on their computers and other iOS devices, but are content to come out with a new tvOS platform/device that isn't using the latest resolution standard? Sad.

Any way you slice it, I'm in no big hurry to run out and buy one of these. I could still be won over if they announce some compelling streaming TV pricing and if VUDU is able to release an app that includes Siri integration. I'd still be very disappointed in the lack of 24Hz support, though.

 

[RusherRacing]

So I see the remote has IR but doesn't connect to the ATV via bluetooth? Will I be able to turn on my TV with just this remote? I am thinking of ditching dish soon and don't want to go back too multiply remotes.

 

[z31fanatic]

Sure, Apple could have put 4K in it, 4GB of RAM, the A9X, options for better gaming controllers, etc. and priced it in the range of a Mac Mini. We all know that this isn't how Apple works; Apple adds this stuff incrementally. They do this to see what direction consumers and developers take it in, as well as enabling an upgrade path. The do the same with everyone of their products. Every time they roll something out, people jump on the forums and start complaining that it doesn't have this or that like "product X" already has - ignoring the fact that product X has usability issues as a result.

The reason for the lack of 4k here is pretty obvious.

Oh yes, Apple always knows what's best for us. We are just crazy for wanting things that may not be good for us.
Thanks Apple for looking out for us small people.

 

[meegwell]

All you need is a HDHomeRun App on the AppleTV. I already have HDHomeRun. However, the problem is this. One hour of recording takes about 13GB in MPEG2 OTA. Unless AppleTV has a way to connect to a storage system, this app is useless. I believe HDHomeRun is coming out with their own DVR.

This would be sweet if you can tell the app to store the data on a NAS on your network. Upgrade as necessary. A Broadcast/local channel app and a DVR app would go a long way. This release is really all about what the developers can do...

 

[iReality85]

Cost. And, if they aren't going to support resolutions which require HDMI 2.0, why waste the money on it?



Sorry, but this is BS. Just last week on a message board here I linked three TVs from Best Buy, their cheapest 4k set (on sale for $100 less that week IIRC), their equivalent (same brand, same quality band, same screensize) 1080p, and a full-feature 4k TV. The low-end craptacular 4k TV was 50% more than the 1080p set, and that was with $100 off. As sizes go up, the difference gets more and more pronounced.

Exacerbating this is that there is not yet (at least, definitely wasn't in 2014, and I can't find any standard publications from the relevant bodies since) a defined standard for UHD transmission. This may not be overly important - so long as HDMI supports the higher resolutions how it gets to the cable box or set top box doesn't necessarily matter to the consumer - but it does throw a monkey wrench and not-entirely-illegitimate FUD on any 4k TV purchase today. Chances are, the eventual standards will grandfather the majority of hardware sold to-date in some compatibility mode, but chances are also quite good that some of that hardware will not be able to play standard-compliant UHD broadcasts. We already see this in the "looseness" of the UDH logo program with respect to color depth, allowing highly-inferior depth sets (color depths which are worse than what 1080p sets typically display) to still carry the same logo high-end devices do; it is fairly likely that UHD video in 2020 will assume a much higher color depth than your $400 Visio box from 2015 is capable of displaying, leading to major viewer frustration.

This completely is reflected in the low sales for 4k sets. They are just not selling well compared to their 1080p brethren except in the very-large-screen segments. Yet. And I mean it. This is a really predictable technology uptake in a long-term durable good (TV set). I am sure that a few years from now they will be flying off the shelves, at which point penetration of 4k sets in the market will reach 10% saturation, and people will start thinking, "my next set obviously is going to be 4k". It will happen, of that I am certain. But don't delude yourself: it has not yet gotten there.



In most parts of the country, 25Mbps broadband is a hardship because it is impossible or prohibitively expensive to get.

Don't project the specifics of your situation on the rest of the country.

In any case, clearly you have a large investment in 4k. The AppleTV box is clearly not for you. Sometime this year there should be a Roku, and rumors are also a FireTV, supporting 4k on selected services. There is nothing for you to buy today, from any set top box manufacturer, so you are correct to put your money back in your wallet.

That said, maybe stop message-board-raging that Apple didn't give you your pony today. When you bought that Samsung set you surely did some research and knew that you'd be stuck with the built-in apps to display 4k content, right? The rumors on the AppleTV leading up to today were very solid on the lack of 4k support, so if you knew that there was an AppleTV announcement coming you should also have had a good idea it wasn't going to support your Samsung either. So, presumably, 4k using the Samsung built-in apps was okay for you over the weekend; it is just going to have to continue being okay until you can buy a set-top box or bluray player supporting UHD. Which will be after they are announced. You can't buy a cutting edge technology device and then complain that it doesn't have mainstream support.

Please stop with the condescending tone. I haven't attacked people for preferring 1080p, so don't attack me for preferring 4K. But I did criticize Apple; if you consider that raging, that's your call. I laid things out as they are, and in no way am I talking BS. I don't live near any major city, so you can fit me into your 'rest of the country' group. There's plenty of 4K sets being sold out there. There's plenty of data plans which offer 25Mbps.

As for me buying a 4K TV (by the way, the 40" Samsung JU7100 is anything but a "craptacular" 4K set), I did my homework when buying the set, including the pros and cons, so there's no need to question my judgment. For myself, as well as others here it seems, this announcement was a bit of a let down. I'm sure next year's will (hopefully) support 4K, but I would have liked to see Apple really jump into the 4K game.

 

[Mac 128]

4k is far from mainstream and there was no point for the AppleTV to support it at this point.
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/
http://www.techhive.com/article/2867546/we-saw-lots-of-4k-tvs-at-ces-4k-content-not-so-much.html
etc.

Sure, Apple could have put 4K in it, 4GB of RAM, the A9X, options for better gaming controllers, etc. and priced it in the range of a Mac Mini. We all know that this isn't how Apple works; Apple adds this stuff incrementally. They do this to see what direction consumers and developers take it in, as well as enabling an upgrade path. The do the same with everyone of their products. Every time they roll something out, people jump on the forums and start complaining that it doesn't have this or that like "product X" already has - ignoring the fact that product X has usability issues as a result.

The reason for the lack of 4k here is pretty obvious.

Two words: iPhone 6S.

I'm somewhat incredulous that they would introduce the TV at the same event as the iPhone 6S, during which they tout the ability to record 4K movies, and 12mp moving pictures. Apple only currently offers one 4K capable display in the most expensive iMac. So within the Apple ecosystem, that's the only device someone can watch the 4K video shot on the iPhone 6S. Outside of that, the TV would be the optimal place to do that, so that the average customer can actually get something out of that capability other than bragging rights. And considering the TV was clearly missing a unifying subscription service, and currently has no release date, I'd suggest this would have been a good save. The whole reason I have an TV is AirPlay.

And then there's the upgrade issue ... Apple has for no apparent reason decided to drop the fairly standard and common optical audio port, which will force customers to upgrade their equipment in order to use it. Yet they don't bother to offer the customer the option to upgrade to a 4K set so they can watch all those videos shot on their new iPhone 6S?

Mystifying. To me anyway.

 

[darknite]

Well Firecore's Infuse has been officially confirmed and so has Plex so i think it's a given that Kodi will follow.
Happy days

Link please!! When was PLEX confirmed?

 

[meegwell]

Am I the only one who is really bummed they took out the optical audio out? This really affects hooking up to a real home theater system

I dont get this argument unless you are concerned that you have outdated equipment. I've had HDMI switching on the last two (~8 years) AV receivers I've purchased for my HT.

A quick google search of high-end to low-end showed every single HT receiver or pre-amp processor I could find has HDMI.

What am I missing with this Optical out argument?

From the McIntosh MX151 HT processor, to every single Anthem, Denon, Pioneer Elite, Onkyo, Yamaha....you name it...they have been equipped with HDMI for years....

 

[bigpoppamac31]

The biggest thing I've seen people complain about is lack of 4K streaming content. But others have come back and said that 4K streaming would chew up too much bandwidth from your ISP. I can agree that it likely would at this point if viewing 4K movies from Netflix or whatnot. Plus I have no issues with 1080p video as my 1080p TV looks awesome when watching movies or TV content. But unless I'm missing something it seems one can't even stream 4K video from the new iPhone through the new Apple TV to a 4K capable TV. That should be available cause I can't see it chewing up your monthly ISP bandwidth. Otherwise is there a way to connect your iPhone 6S or 6S plus to the TV to view the 4K content on the big screen? A Lightening to HDMI adapter perhaps?

 

[meegwell]

Any setup where the audio is split would need an optical out or a audio passthrough on the TV, but if you have a decent tv like a plasma then it's quite likely that dropping optical out would be a problem. It also means that the new Apple TV can not be a drop-in replacement for the existing in setups where the optical audio was used for AirPlay to a stereo.
.

I dont understand this. I have never used my TV's audio on any systems and its been ~8-10 years since I've used a toslink optical or coax digiatal audio.

ATV (or any other component) >HDMI> Receiver IN
Receiver OUT > HDMI > TV

The receiver is setup to pass all video to the TV. Send all audio to the speakers.

Every single modern HT/multi-channel receiver or pre-amp (at least ~5 years) has HDMI, high-end (example McIntosh MX151) all the way to low end (that $500 sony you get from best buy).

 

[SaxPlayer]

Today I've discovered a type of device I had never heard of before, the HDMI audio extractor. As I use my ATV mostly for music this will be the way to go, unfortunately.

Thanks for the info. That's an option, certainly. Didn't even know you could do that. However, I can't help feeling that Apple have crippled the hardware here. It's almost as if they designed it 2 years ago and have had it sitting on a shelf in the lab waiting for the world to change and when it didn't they decided to launch it anyway without updating any of the components.

 

[snowmoon]

Every single modern HT/multi-channel receiver or pre-amp (at least ~5 years)

Yep, as I mentioned in my post I have several perfectly wonderful pre-HDMI receivers and my main setup was from ~2006. It's a wonderful plasma setup with 5.1 and good speakers which works well. I don't chase these features since they turn over too quickly leading to great equipment needing to be replaced for no damn good reason.

 

[azentropy]

They have just announced the tvOS SDK. 3rd party developers need time to develop apps for the tvOS.

Oh I'm sure Amazon will come out with an app, but whether it works with Siri's new search features is a different story.
They announced it worked with HBO, Showtime, Netflix and Hulu. So either they approached Amazon to be a key partner and they weren't interested (which I find doubtful as Amazon has been very good working with every other streamer/smarttv out there) or they didn't approach Amazon.

 

[meegwell]

Disappointing. Apple has once again blown the chance to make the Apple TV into a serious gaming contender. No dedicated controller? Apple is out of touch.

3rd party bluetooth controller support.

 

[meegwell]

I am wondering if the USB-C port would allow to connect a HD to keep my media library there.
I hate the fact I need a Mac on to access all my content. My guess this will never happen.

An app will eventually do it imo. Organize your media and point to a Network Drive for storage.

 

[AFITgrad86]

Apple today announced the much-anticipated fourth-generation Apple TV at its "Hey Siri" media event in San Francisco, California. The new Apple TV was constructed on a foundation encompassing powerful hardware, a modern operating system, a new user experience with deep Siri integration, tools for developers, and most importantly, an App Store.

The Apple TV runs "tvOS," with a revamped iOS 9-style interface. Design wise, it looks similar to the existing set-top box, but it's thicker and ships with a much more advanced touch-based remote that Apple's calling the "Siri Remote." The top of the remote includes a glass touch surface for swiping through content as you would on an iPhone, and there's a built-in button for calling up Siri.

Siri integration is a key part of the new Apple TV interface, as it lets users ask Siri to bring up content. It's possible to search through multiple apps to find a TV show or movie, and at launch, supported apps include Netflix, iTunes, Hulu, HBO, and Showtime. Siri can answer questions about who's starring in a movie, bring up extraneous information like the weather outside, and ask Siri to replay parts of a movie that were missed or fast forward through content. For example, asking Siri "What did she say?" will rewind a movie 15 seconds and temporarily bring up subtitles.

Siri has a wide range of commands that will make searching for content on the Apple TV simple. You can ask Siri to "Show me New Girl," or "Find the best funny movies from the '80s."In addition to Siri integration, the other major software improvement to the Apple TV is a full App Store that includes games and popular apps. To facilitate gameplay on the Apple TV, the new remote includes an accelerometer and a gyroscope that can detect motion, much like a Wii Remote for the Nintendo Wii platform.

On stage at the event, a multiplayer version of Crossy Road was demonstrated, with one player using the Apple TV remote and another player using an iPhone as an input device. The Apple TV will support both the iPhone and the iPod touch as an input device. Apple TV and iPhone games are going to be available universally, meaning you can start a game on the iPhone and then pick it up on the Apple TV.

On stage, some upcoming apps for the Apple TV were shown off, including Netflix, HBONow, and Hulu. Game developers like Disney Interactive and Activision are working on games for the device that include "Disney Infinity 3.0" and "Guitar Hero." Harmonix is also developing a rhythm-based Wii Sports-style game that will be available exclusively on the Apple TV.

The new Apple TV also comes with brand new screen savers featuring high definition footage shot by Apple. The screen savers show off cities in slow motion video and will showcase footage based on the time of day.

Starting today, developers can access the tvOS SDK via a new Xcode beta to begin creating games and apps for the Apple TV.

Internally, the Apple TV includes a 64-bit A8 chip, with support for key iOS technologies like Metal, GameKit, and UIKit, all of which will allow developers to bring console-quality games to the device. The Apple TV is available with either 32GB or 64GB of storage, which will be used for downloading apps, and it includes Bluetooth 4.0, 801.11ac Wi-Fi with MIMO and an IR receiver. The remote works over Bluetooth 4.0, so line of sight is not required, and its battery will last for up to three months on a single charge. Recharging the remote is done through a built-in Lightning connector.

The Apple TV will begin shipping at the end of October in nearly 80 countries. It is priced at $149 for the 32GB version and $199 for the 64GB version. Apple will continue selling the existing Apple TV for $69, but that device will not support the new App Store.

Article Link: Apple Announces New Apple TV With Siri, App Store, New User Interface and Remote

 

[skellener]

Android TV already has Plex and Kodi (XBMC).

But AppleTV doesn't....yet.

 

[AFITgrad86]

What Apple has provided with the new Apple TV is the foundation for the "new TV" experience. On the surface it's not hugely impressive but sometime one has to look a bit deeper to figure out where this is going to lead. Obviously the faster processor (but why not the A9?) provides improved response to commands and undoubtedly will provide a 'snappier' feel than the Gen 3 device. But the really good stuff is still in the oven.

The worth of any device - be it iPad, iPhone, or iMac is in the apps that leverage the hardware and provide the "wow" factor. So, in that respect the Gen 4 ATV has provided developers the tools (hardware, OS, and App Store) to provide us with the content that will differentiate this device from its competitors -- in due time. The possibilities are pretty intriguing. For example - HomeKit integration to view security cameras or perform other home automation tasks from the TV. How about using your iPhone or iPad as a 'super remote'? Obviously one of the first apps will be a browser and/or a remote desktop app.

So, the point is that Apple has provided a more capable platform and infrastructure -- now lets wait and see how well it takes off.

 

[darknite]

This new ATV won't work with your logitech unless you have their bluetooth adapter. Another negative point about the new ATV.

Bluetooth is not a negative point. IR needs a direct line of site. With bluetooth the TV can be behind the screen, buried in a rack or shelf, or in the other room and still be controlled. Radio over IR FTW!

 

[darknite]

Am I the only one who is really bummed they took out the optical audio out? This really affects hooking up to a real home theater system

Jules, I hope you are kidding.....

Hooking up to a real (read modern) home theater system is a breeze. Its called HDMI, and it carries video and audio to a modern (in the last 5-6 years) AVR (Audio Video Receiver)

the TOS Link would/should only come into play if you are connecting audio to a really old AVR without HDMI, or one of the first/oldest HDMI AVRs that had maybe 2 HDMI in and 1 out. With new AVRs that have 5-6 HDMI in priced at around $300-$400, there is no reason for a TOS Link.

Maybe people complaining about lack of optical audio in a modern home theater should consider updating their AVR before purchasing an TV, or an other device.

 

[meegwell]

^ Apple is wrong (how can they make such a mistake?), there is no Dolby Digital 7.1.

Audio Formats: HE-AAC (V1), AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, AIFF, and WAV; Dolby Digital 5.1 and Dolby Digital Plus 7.1

 

[meegwell]

No audio output? How do I listen to music on my stereo with the TV switched off?

HDMI is audio and video.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Two words: iPhone 6S.

I'm somewhat incredulous that they would introduce the TV at the same event as the iPhone 6S, during which they tout the ability to record 4K movies, and 12mp moving pictures. Apple only currently offers one 4K capable display in the most expensive iMac. So within the Apple ecosystem, that's the only device someone can watch the 4K video shot on the iPhone 6S. Outside of that, the TV would be the optimal place to do that, so that the average customer can actually get something out of that capability other than bragging rights. And considering the TV was clearly missing a unifying subscription service, and currently has no release date, I'd suggest this would have been a good save. The whole reason I have an TV is AirPlay.

Pretty much sums it up.

And then there's the upgrade issue ... Apple has for no apparent reason decided to drop the fairly standard and common optical audio port, which will force customers to upgrade their equipment in order to use it. Yet they don't bother to offer the customer the option to upgrade to a 4K set so they can watch all those videos shot on their new iPhone 6S?

Yup.

Mystifying. To me anyway.

Me too. It basically would have cost nothing to include 4K. I'm wondering if there is some other interoperability problem that is not widely known? e.g. problems with HDCP 2.2 or something like that.

 

[meegwell]

So I see the remote has IR but doesn't connect to the ATV via bluetooth? Will I be able to turn on my TV with just this remote? I am thinking of ditching dish soon and don't want to go back too multiply remotes.

Talks with ATV via bluetooth 4.0, has IR transmitter to hit your TV.