Is it just me, or does the Quad i7 2.93GHz iMac seem like it carries a much better price/performance ratio than the new lineup of Mac Pros?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Announces New Mac Pros With Up to 12 Cores, SSD Options
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
They also don't post the prices of the 12-core model on the European sites
Well, the new iMacs start from £999 in the UK and $1199 in the US. So I would guess starting from £4000? ish. Which is fair, as everyone seems to forget that you are paying for 12 cores plus hyperthreading (I think) technology so it's 24 threads.
EDIT: £3500 ish?
The Environment
I understand some who need the fastest power hog in the industry, but to me it seems as though more are concerned with impressing others than an actual need (sort of like guys bragging about their cars).
I APPLAUD Apple for demonstrating the commitment to the environment. Aluminum and glass are recyclable materials, and their systems have been arsenic, mercury and PVC free for a long time now. Everyone complains about the "glossy" glass displays, but research the difference between glass and plastic fronts, not just on the environment but also on color/gamma correction. A lot of professionals use glass/glossy displays and simply implement a hood if needed. I have a 24" LED LCD and a 23" CCFL LCD in the same room, and the light varies quite often, I prefer the LED LCD, and I admit having the two allows for recognizing differences in projects, if any, which are rare.
http://www.apple.com/macpro/environment.html
E-waste is a MAJOR issue, most Americans don't realize it as we live in a disposable society and most of our garbage is shipped out to third world nations in which the carcinogens of our wasteful consumer needs are causing disease to many impoverished nations. It's sickening. I wish more people in the tech world would realize that most people don't need all this speed, we just WANT it, and Apple has shown that going "green" doesn't mean going red.
Read "The Story of Stuff", great book about all of this, it's surely an eye opener and may make you think twice about buying what you don't need, the three "R's" (reduce, reuse, recycle), and how electronics and e-waste are horrible issues that we as a tech community are directly responsible for encouraging.
EDIT: Stats on Apple's site for their Mac Pro line:
I understand some who need the fastest power hog in the industry, but to me it seems as though more are concerned with impressing others than an actual need (sort of like guys bragging about their cars).
I APPLAUD Apple for demonstrating the commitment to the environment. Aluminum and glass are recyclable materials, and their systems have been arsenic, mercury and PVC free for a long time now. Everyone complains about the "glossy" glass displays, but research the difference between glass and plastic fronts, not just on the environment but also on color/gamma correction. A lot of professionals use glass/glossy displays and simply implement a hood if needed. I have a 24" LED LCD and a 23" CCFL LCD in the same room, and the light varies quite often, I prefer the LED LCD, and I admit having the two allows for recognizing differences in projects, if any, which are rare.
http://www.apple.com/macpro/environment.html
E-waste is a MAJOR issue, most Americans don't realize it as we live in a disposable society and most of our garbage is shipped out to third world nations in which the carcinogens of our wasteful consumer needs are causing disease to many impoverished nations. It's sickening. I wish more people in the tech world would realize that most people don't need all this speed, we just WANT it, and Apple has shown that going "green" doesn't mean going red.
Read "The Story of Stuff", great book about all of this, it's surely an eye opener and may make you think twice about buying what you don't need, the three "R's" (reduce, reuse, recycle), and how electronics and e-waste are horrible issues that we as a tech community are directly responsible for encouraging.
EDIT: Stats on Apple's site for their Mac Pro line:
You would think after like 7 years of having the same aluminum-with-the-holes-on-the-front design apple would change the case design. Perhaps a shiny glass panel on the front to match the cinema displays, but oh, no it has to look like a piece of cheese...AGAIN!!!!!!
Not too impressed. They could have done 6 RAM slots per CPU like most 1366 boards to support triple channel memory when the RAM is maxed. Also for the price they could have used the ICH10R south bridge for built in hardware RAID support like just about every 1366 board made.
I just figured that Apple is making at least $1000 profit on the octo core. On newegg you can build it for $2400 using the same or better parts.
No I am not comparing Xeon's to Core i7's. For $2400 you can build dual Xeon e5620's (quad 2.4 ghz), a Supermicro MBD-X8DA3-0 motherboard (more RAM slots, RAID, similar expansion slots), Radeon 5770, 1TB HD, 6GB ECC memory, FW800, 802.11n, Windows 7 Ultimate, high quality keyboard and mouse, DVD burner, Silverstone ST1000-P PSU (1000w, moduler, 80+ Silver certified, Antec P193 case (more expandable, cooling comparison unknown, looks are subjective).
I make this comparison because when the 2006 and 2008 MP's were released. You could not build part to part match on Newegg for less than Apple was charging for the MP. As I recall the MP was a couple hundred cheaper.
I just figured that Apple is making at least $1000 profit on the octo core. On newegg you can build it for $2400 using the same or better parts.
No I am not comparing Xeon's to Core i7's. For $2400 you can build dual Xeon e5620's (quad 2.4 ghz), a Supermicro MBD-X8DA3-0 motherboard (more RAM slots, RAID, similar expansion slots), Radeon 5770, 1TB HD, 6GB ECC memory, FW800, 802.11n, Windows 7 Ultimate, high quality keyboard and mouse, DVD burner, Silverstone ST1000-P PSU (1000w, moduler, 80+ Silver certified, Antec P193 case (more expandable, cooling comparison unknown, looks are subjective).
I make this comparison because when the 2006 and 2008 MP's were released. You could not build part to part match on Newegg for less than Apple was charging for the MP. As I recall the MP was a couple hundred cheaper.
Apple has released their own battery charger. lol
They had to... The MagicMouse eats a pair of batteries A WEEK... Talk about being "green"...
Look, Hackintosh builds can be souped up and made fast. A lot of those guys have done some impressive stuff to make MacOS work (more) seamless with the original Apple installation disks.
But a goosed up overclocked i7 is not the same thing that a professional/academic needs to use for mission-critical work.
Apple does not build configurable white boxes. It appears that they haven't had any interest in that kind of desktop for at least ten years.
Professional workstations/laptops - Mac Pro/MacBook Pro
Consumer computers - iMacs/MacBooks
But a goosed up overclocked i7 is not the same thing that a professional/academic needs to use for mission-critical work.
Apple does not build configurable white boxes. It appears that they haven't had any interest in that kind of desktop for at least ten years.
Professional workstations/laptops - Mac Pro/MacBook Pro
Consumer computers - iMacs/MacBooks
They'd be great computers but I'm disappointed with the max of 32 GB of RAM. If I had it, I could use 10X that for some visualizations I'd like to do. It'd be nice to be able to do them natively on a single computer without having to rewrite code in order to run the visualizations on a cluster (which is something I do not have the expertise to do).
Excuse me, Apple DO NOT OFFER THE INTEL CORE i7 CPU AS A BTO OPTION ON ANY MAC PRO.
So I couldn't care less what you THINK is right, I care about the real world we live in......
Here's a novelty for you, try and stop comparing a workstation class CPU with a desktop/ home computer class CPU. It's frankly getting tiresome just how stupid doing this is. Stop making facts up just to suite your ridiculous argument.
Because there is no price difference between a Core i7 processor and Xeon 3000 processor with the same clock speed, and ECC memory isn't needed by many types of user and is barely more expensive. Single socket workstations are considerably cheaper than what Apple offer, usually with more features. This is because other companies are pricing them against their consumer systems which these days use very similar parts. Dual processor systems are more on a similar level.
Done.
With SATA 6gb and USB 3.0 out, why couldn't they have included that? So we are going to have to wait another 450 days for USB 3? I know there isn't a lot out that supports USB 3 now but in a few months there will be.
I love my current MacPro but its time to upgrade. Pass my current one on to my kid and get a new one for me. I just don't find the new one attractive enough to buy. At least I would have liked to have SATA 6gb.
With SATA 6gb and USB 3.0 out, why couldn't they have included that? So we are going to have to wait another 450 days for USB 3? I know there isn't a lot out that supports USB 3 now but in a few months there will be.
I love my current MacPro but its time to upgrade. Pass my current one on to my kid and get a new one for me. I just don't find the new one attractive enough to buy. At least I would have liked to have SATA 6gb.
They had to... The MagicMouse eats a pair of batteries A WEEK... Talk about being "green"...
Buy better batteries.
My Magic Mouse makes it a month before needing battery replacement. 
It's weird how expectations can wreck a day. ^_^
This update would have been so much easier to stomach if the base price came in at something like $2,299, just to acknowledge that time hasn't stood still in Apple's world.
How long until benchmark specs usually make it out? Because I'm genuinely interested to see how big the gap is on a maxed out iMac vs base price Pro Tower.
I'm not angry, just disappointed. Think I'll read up on the Hackintosh scene, ponder a bit, and go from there. I've got a month anyway.
This update would have been so much easier to stomach if the base price came in at something like $2,299, just to acknowledge that time hasn't stood still in Apple's world.
How long until benchmark specs usually make it out? Because I'm genuinely interested to see how big the gap is on a maxed out iMac vs base price Pro Tower.
I'm not angry, just disappointed. Think I'll read up on the Hackintosh scene, ponder a bit, and go from there. I've got a month anyway.
The great "Meh..." 2010 update of the Mac Pro
Agreed. This was yet another disappointing refresh for the Mac Pro.
YMMV. CPU-wise, I would have been content with a four core @ 3+GHz and with more RAM slots ... for the $2499 price point.
I'm looking for 5 guys who will each send $1000
Agreed. For the small guy, this screams "Go buy an i7 Hackintosh"
(EDIT: yes, I know that pendantically, it is not comparable to a Xeon. However, for one-man outfits, pendants go out the window).
What's particularly frustrating is that the faster FW1600 controller chips have been available for well over a year ... and the new hardware (chip) costs less than FIVE bucks.
This one pegs the lame-o-meter pretty severely for Apple. Particularly given the size of the case ... and the fact that the dual CPU has 8 slots ... there's literally no excuse not to at least provide 6 slots in the single CPU configuration.
And while we're at it, we may as well complain about the lack of an SDXC slot being built-in
The closest thing to justifying would be excess inventory from a production run. FWIW, I think it might be interesting for some buyers of recently purchased Mac Pros to dig into their guts to find out exactly when they were physically produced - - I'd not be surprised if it was 6 months (or more) ago.
Agreed:
1+2) CPU bump and GPU bump ... gosh, I tend to expect that by the time that we're at nearly a FULL MOORE'S CYCLE after their introduction that such enhancements are a given, at zero increased cost.
3) I rarely trudge my Desktop from room to room, so it having WiFi is a faux feature AFAIC.
4) My consumer expectations for a desktop's power supply is that it always be designed to be up to the job of driving expansion cards.
As such, none of these are IMO really justified as a higher expense.
Given that 2009-2010 didn't have 10% inflation, the $200 price bump isn't justifiable in that fashion, either. Similarly, since there's no tooling cost changes to pay for (new case design, etc), the existing production line is simply getting more amortization ... again, not a particular justification.
About the only thing that does come close to justifying the price bump is that Apple has sold a heck of a lot fewer Mac Pros then they were expecting - - but the consumer feedback in terms of "little guy" consumers pointing out its deficiencies make that factor into something that Apple is ignoring (and/or is in denial about)...not the consumer's fault (nor really the Economy, either).
If Apple can wait, so can I.
True, but how lame is this? After waiting for how many months of waiting for an update, we not only get a weak refresh but we still have to wait yet another month???
Sheeze!
-hh
Agreed. This was yet another disappointing refresh for the Mac Pro.
YMMV. CPU-wise, I would have been content with a four core @ 3+GHz and with more RAM slots ... for the $2499 price point.
If 1000 of you guys sent me $5...I'd be very grateful
I'm looking for 5 guys who will each send $1000
Entry level still looks like a horrible price/performance value.
Agreed. For the small guy, this screams "Go buy an i7 Hackintosh"
(EDIT: yes, I know that pendantically, it is not comparable to a Xeon. However, for one-man outfits, pendants go out the window).
What's particularly frustrating is that the faster FW1600 controller chips have been available for well over a year ... and the new hardware (chip) costs less than FIVE bucks.
This one pegs the lame-o-meter pretty severely for Apple. Particularly given the size of the case ... and the fact that the dual CPU has 8 slots ... there's literally no excuse not to at least provide 6 slots in the single CPU configuration.
And while we're at it, we may as well complain about the lack of an SDXC slot being built-in
The closest thing to justifying would be excess inventory from a production run. FWIW, I think it might be interesting for some buyers of recently purchased Mac Pros to dig into their guts to find out exactly when they were physically produced - - I'd not be surprised if it was 6 months (or more) ago.
Agreed:
1+2) CPU bump and GPU bump ... gosh, I tend to expect that by the time that we're at nearly a FULL MOORE'S CYCLE after their introduction that such enhancements are a given, at zero increased cost.
3) I rarely trudge my Desktop from room to room, so it having WiFi is a faux feature AFAIC.
4) My consumer expectations for a desktop's power supply is that it always be designed to be up to the job of driving expansion cards.
As such, none of these are IMO really justified as a higher expense.
Given that 2009-2010 didn't have 10% inflation, the $200 price bump isn't justifiable in that fashion, either. Similarly, since there's no tooling cost changes to pay for (new case design, etc), the existing production line is simply getting more amortization ... again, not a particular justification.
About the only thing that does come close to justifying the price bump is that Apple has sold a heck of a lot fewer Mac Pros then they were expecting - - but the consumer feedback in terms of "little guy" consumers pointing out its deficiencies make that factor into something that Apple is ignoring (and/or is in denial about)...not the consumer's fault (nor really the Economy, either).
If Apple can wait, so can I.
True, but how lame is this? After waiting for how many months of waiting for an update, we not only get a weak refresh but we still have to wait yet another month???
Sheeze!
-hh
The only difference between an The similar i7 and Xeon 3500 series is ECC support. That's it. It doesn't matter, though. Apple is pricing out the small businesses and individuals that need power.
August is next week, my friend. We've waited this long, what's another week to save up?
Intel doesn't have native SATA 6.0 gb on their own motherboards yet, do they? Do I understand correctly that PC companies have been adding their own SATA 6gb ports + USB 3.0?
What's stopping OWC or Sonnet from creating a USB 3.0/SATA-eSATA 6.0 expansion card?
Last edited by a moderator:
That's only true on the higher end. The quad is WAY WAY WAY overpriced for what you get, especially four ram slots and the performance.
Because the consumer parts outperform the vastly more expensive "pro" parts in the case of the quad.
The "pro" parts provide no perceptible advantage to many users. Of course, Apple could sell a headless desktop with an i7, but since they don't, the only buying option for someone in that market is the xeon. But that's the consequence of Apple's decision, they could easily remedy that but they obviously don't care.
Yep, same as the last round of updates.
You wouldn't think that if you actually owned and used a MP instead of just being an armchair pundit.
Sure, you can overclock those machines, but even a basic i7 at stock speeds is going to match the base MP quad for half the price. It's not an advantage from an expert "souping up", the MP quad is simply a bad deal for the performance it gives.
It's just you. Don't you realize that Mac Pro's and iMac's are for different purposes? As a composer, I can't use the iMac. I need 3-4 internal harddrives, PCIe-slots for DSP/soundcards and a more flexible design overall.
I just think its funny the sheer amount of people who always hate apple every update that comes out because whatever got released doesn't have something they want.
I can get an insane amount of work done on only the macbook pro in my signature. Would I love a newer faster computer that I don't have to have an 8TB raid system attached to? Sure! But thats not an option for me just yet. I use Aperture, Corel Painter, Maya, ZBrush, XCode, Logic, Unity 3D, Photoshop, and do lots of video encoding daily but I don't cry about not having the latest and greatest hardware. Why? Because I have skills. I don't need the latest and greatest computer to get my work finished. If you have talent you can work within your limitations and still get the job done.
I can get an insane amount of work done on only the macbook pro in my signature. Would I love a newer faster computer that I don't have to have an 8TB raid system attached to? Sure! But thats not an option for me just yet. I use Aperture, Corel Painter, Maya, ZBrush, XCode, Logic, Unity 3D, Photoshop, and do lots of video encoding daily but I don't cry about not having the latest and greatest hardware. Why? Because I have skills. I don't need the latest and greatest computer to get my work finished. If you have talent you can work within your limitations and still get the job done.
Speaking for myself, I have a octo 2.8 2008 Mac Pro with 16gb RAM and a GTX 285. It handles everything that I throw at it, between audio and video ripping and running XP, Linux and Win7 virtual machines.
I imagine that a chassis change will happen when there's a Sandy Bringe Mac Pro (likely early 2012). I would imagine a redesign of the Mac Pro box costs tens of millions of $ in time and effort, and that the existing externals/internals of the Mac Pro are still better than good.
I imagine that a chassis change will happen when there's a Sandy Bringe Mac Pro (likely early 2012). I would imagine a redesign of the Mac Pro box costs tens of millions of $ in time and effort, and that the existing externals/internals of the Mac Pro are still better than good.