Sadly typical Mac snobbery and why we're frequently scorned upon. Reality is a professional uses the best tool for the job, not specs to impress...
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Apple Announces New MacBook Pros With M2 Pro and M2 Max Chips, Up to 96GB RAM, and More
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I think in this case it wasn't snobbery; it was just a poorly interpreted phrase and @Allen_Wentz tried to explain that.
"Anyone intending real work" might have been more carefully phrased as "Anyone intending to really work the computer".
But, I *am* a snob. I'm gonna throw a party and have everyone look at my new computer. I might even wear a tie.
At very least it was badly put. All modern Mac's are verry capable, just need to match the machine to your role. I own and use multiple Mac's & PC"s dependant on usage and they all do "real work' when employed to do so.
Real Work should be interpreted as a function of education, profit or research. An MBP is not a minimum requirement, nor do I own an Air...
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My coworker, who I’ve learnt apparently isn’t doing “real work” (he’s a software developer doing SPAs, APIs, firmware, mobile apps), has recently gotten an M2 Air. It was only intended to help build mobile apps, but he’s found that he’s actual been enjoying it as his main computer. His biggest issue for now isn’t the lack of RAM, lack of CPU cores, lack of HDMI port (though he would like that), lack of more than two Thunderbolt ports… no, it’s the external screen limitation. Even in lid-closed mode, only one external display. He’s probably getting a DisplayLink adapter because his desk does have two big displays.
Anyway, though, he’s evidently not doing real work, so it doesn’t matter.
Anyway, though, he’s evidently not doing real work, so it doesn’t matter.
Just a load of BS. As a rule I've always been paid for my capabilities not my hardware of choice. Exactly why we're laughed at, someone editing their home pic's doesn't need a fully loaded MBP and the more level headed will concur versus needlessly throwing money at Apple.
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Thanks to you both @Allen_Wentz and @Tagbert. I appreciate your discussion in defence of my needs. You both make good points. My heart wants a lighter machine than the current line of MBPs but my mind and past experience (12 years of photo editing on various editions of the MBP) tells me that the significantly greater power found in the new MBPs is what I really need. I will hopefully make a purchase by the summer, but will be watching and listening to these discussions until that time comes. Thanks again. 😊
I’m glad that you gained some information from the discussion. Allen makes some very good points and is absolutely correct in his recommendations for many people here. I wanted you to feel like you could evaluate the options and make the decision based on your needs.
A voice of sanity. All the new Apple Silicon Mac's are devastatingly fast and highly capable. Just no need to spend out unless you have a specific need or you just want...
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Be it as it may, my current computers still have untapped resources, so spending money right now to be an early adopter wouldn't be very smart. Not to mention the connectivity, multiple external displays etc. Fortunately I don't use Windows for anything, so that's one worry less.
I'll probably start considering a switch around 2024/2025 as both my Macs are 2019. More likely to replace the MBP before Mac Pro (as a new Mac Pro is nowhere to be seen).
First yellow card will drop when Apple stops releasing MacOS for Intels - once that happens the clock will start ticking, as I do love most recent software more than hardware.
Shipped! Arriving 1/30. I'm in California.
I'm so excited and full of dread. So much to do once it arrives, dealing with the move to ARM and getting all my work transferred off of Windows. But, excited > dread.
I'm so excited and full of dread. So much to do once it arrives, dealing with the move to ARM and getting all my work transferred off of Windows. But, excited > dread.
It’s not $4K every time. When your old one is only a year or two old it still has most of its value for sale to someone else. If you could afford say $1000 per year you could upgrade everything (not just RAM) whenever you want. Not saying you need to do that specifically but it’s an example. This obsession people have with upgrading RAM and nothing else just baffles me.
On another note if you’re currently surviving on a machine that is 15 (!!!) years old then a base model MacBook Air will cover your needs more than adequately. You could spend less than $300 a year selling your 1yo MBA and getting a base model new one every time they release a new one and you’d still be loads better off than you are now. Again just an example for perspective.
His advice is very sound. I think based on this and some of your other comments here, you might consider a reality check.
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This is so extremely wasteful. This is the EXACT attitude apple wants you to have now. Just keep upgrading with an extra thousand each year. Dump the old laptop. Have it activation locked and shredded in the garbage, unserviceable... I run a 10 year old computer that has been upgraded a handful of times with newer storage, RAM, GPU's... currently 32GB, AMD 6900XT, and several SSD's and TB's of Work Data (all in the same box).. backing up to cloud and internal file servers.. I am peaked at Monterey with this machine. TCO of this work station hasn't even been the cost of a single M1 MacBook Pro in regards to upgrading. I manage final cut, cinema4d/red shift and all adobe apps just fine. I develop and compile apps just fine... My revenue from work I make from this machine goes into my pocket to pay for important thing in MY life, not Tim Cooks bonuses.
I really don't understand how this new generation thinks anymore. They want to save the world, but they want to cause more pollution than all previous generations of computer owners. "Back in my day", we kept our Apple II's, VIC20's, C64's and Amigas for many many many years... Now everyone has to have a new one each year to be able to do the same thing. Only now, they can't because nothing can be upgraded and they are being locked into disposable machine ecosystems.... I stopped buying apple machines when they started gluing them together in 2012-2013 and making RAM non-upgradeable. This literally started when Tim Cook took over. I still setup new machines for people and I get to play around with them. The new M1's are definitely nice out of the box, I was blown away by the speakers... but I could never consider it a long term work machine. Investing in disposable culture is fundamentally wrong to me. Two of my customers are still using their 2009 and 2011 MacBook Pro's that I recently upgraded SSD's and maxed out ram. a little tweak with DOSDude and they are running more recent OS installs just fine.
Is this okay to you:
Perfectly Good MacBooks From 2020 Are Being Sold for Scrap Because of Activation Lock
It's almost impossible to resell a perfectly functional M1 MacBook because of Apple's security features.
www.vice.com
If you had any credibility left by now it’s completely lost in the moment you said in the first paragraph Apple wants you to dump your old computer and have it shredded.This is so extremely wasteful. This is the EXACT attitude apple wants you to have now. Just keep upgrading with an extra thousand each year. Dump the old laptop. Have it activation locked and shredded in the garbage, unserviceable... I run a 10 year old computer that has been upgraded a handful of times with newer storage, RAM, GPU's... currently 32GB, AMD 6900XT, and several SSD's and TB's of Work Data (all in the same box).. backing up to cloud and internal file servers.. I am peaked at Monterey with this machine. TCO of this work station hasn't even been the cost of a single M1 MacBook Pro in regards to upgrading. I manage final cut, cinema4d/red shift and all adobe apps just fine. I develop and compile apps just fine... My revenue from work I make from this machine goes into my pocket to pay for important thing in MY life, not Tim Cooks bonuses.
I really don't understand how this new generation thinks anymore. They want to save the world, but they want to cause more pollution than all previous generations of computer owners. "Back in my day", we kept our Apple II's, VIC20's, C64's and Amigas for many many many years... Now everyone has to have a new one each year to be able to do the same thing. Only now, they can't because nothing can be upgraded and they are being locked into disposable machine ecosystems.... I stopped buying apple machines when they started gluing them together in 2012-2013 and making RAM non-upgradeable. This literally started when Tim Cook took over. I still setup new machines for people and I get to play around with them. The new M1's are definitely nice out of the box, I was blown away by the speakers... but I could never consider it a long term work machine. Investing in disposable culture is fundamentally wrong to me. Two of my customers are still using their 2009 and 2011 MacBook Pro's that I recently upgraded SSD's and maxed out ram. a little tweak with DOSDude and they are running more recent OS installs just fine.
Is this okay to you:
Perfectly Good MacBooks From 2020 Are Being Sold for Scrap Because of Activation Lock
It's almost impossible to resell a perfectly functional M1 MacBook because of Apple's security features.
That is so far from the truth. And it also shows you’re not paying the slightest bit of attention to anything I’ve written.
I checked the article and it’s just plain wrong. Restoring an ASi Mac to factory settings including removing activation lock is easier than ever - as easy as doing the same on a iPhone.
Erase your Mac and reset it to factory settings - Apple Support
Use the Erase All Content and Settings feature to quickly and securely erase all settings, data, and apps, while maintaining the operating system currently installed.
The seller needs to do it. The buyer needs to make sure it’s done before buying. If second hand Mac buyers are buying Macs with activation lock still on then they are the fools and should know better. Activation lock has been a thing for years on Macs and longer on iOS devices. How can they not check before they hand over the money to the seller? If they make that mistake then there’s still no reason to shred or landfill the device. Apple will take it back and recycle it at no cost. No Apple device should ever wind up in landfill, and if it does it’s on the owner, not Apple.
You are clearly very very biased to the point of blindness to reality. It is impossible to take you seriously.
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I don't purchase used Mac's so don't know. I would rather think if the new user does a full reset, all is set to zero and previous owner removes the Mac from their account should be good.This is so extremely wasteful. This is the EXACT attitude apple wants you to have now. Just keep upgrading with an extra thousand each year. Dump the old laptop. Have it activation locked and shredded in the garbage, unserviceable... I run a 10 year old computer that has been upgraded a handful of times with newer storage, RAM, GPU's... currently 32GB, AMD 6900XT, and several SSD's and TB's of Work Data (all in the same box).. backing up to cloud and internal file servers.. I am peaked at Monterey with this machine. TCO of this work station hasn't even been the cost of a single M1 MacBook Pro in regards to upgrading. I manage final cut, cinema4d/red shift and all adobe apps just fine. I develop and compile apps just fine... My revenue from work I make from this machine goes into my pocket to pay for important thing in MY life, not Tim Cooks bonuses.
I really don't understand how this new generation thinks anymore. They want to save the world, but they want to cause more pollution than all previous generations of computer owners. "Back in my day", we kept our Apple II's, VIC20's, C64's and Amigas for many many many years... Now everyone has to have a new one each year to be able to do the same thing. Only now, they can't because nothing can be upgraded and they are being locked into disposable machine ecosystems.... I stopped buying apple machines when they started gluing them together in 2012-2013 and making RAM non-upgradeable. This literally started when Tim Cook took over. I still setup new machines for people and I get to play around with them. The new M1's are definitely nice out of the box, I was blown away by the speakers... but I could never consider it a long term work machine. Investing in disposable culture is fundamentally wrong to me. Two of my customers are still using their 2009 and 2011 MacBook Pro's that I recently upgraded SSD's and maxed out ram. a little tweak with DOSDude and they are running more recent OS installs just fine.
Is this okay to you:
Perfectly Good MacBooks From 2020 Are Being Sold for Scrap Because of Activation Lock
It's almost impossible to resell a perfectly functional M1 MacBook because of Apple's security features.
Can see Apple's path, yet It's a mostly a function of profitability which is the boards mandate & fair enough. Apple has both advanced & regressed, just need to take it or leave it that's just how it is...
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I would ask you to read the section that says fleet/institutional and businesses are not doing this and the trend will continue. More and more e-waste headed into the apple dumpsters. You can pretend that everything is glorious in apple land but these articles are expressing exactly what is happening in the real world. Imagine some kijiji sale happening and the seller sells you one of these dumpster MacBook pros. Takes off with the money and you are SOL. It’s going to happen. Keep on believing everyone understands what your apple process is to selling things.If you had any credibility left by now it’s completely lost in the moment you said in the first paragraph Apple wants you to dump your old computer and have it shredded.
That is so far from the truth. And it also shows you’re not paying the slightest bit of attention to anything I’ve written.
I checked the article and it’s just plain wrong. Restoring an ASi Mac to factory settings including removing activation lock is easier than ever - as easy as doing the same on a iPhone.
Erase your Mac and reset it to factory settings - Apple Support
Use the Erase All Content and Settings feature to quickly and securely erase all settings, data, and apps, while maintaining the operating system currently installed.support.apple.com
The seller needs to do it. The buyer needs to make sure it’s done before buying. If second hand Mac buyers are buying Macs with activation lock still on then they are the fools and should know better. Activation lock has been a thing for years on Macs and longer on iOS devices. How can they not check before they hand over the money to the seller? If they make that mistake then there’s still no reason to shred or landfill the device. Apple will take it back and recycle it at no cost. No Apple device should ever wind up in landfill, and if it does it’s on the owner, not Apple.
You are clearly very very biased to the point of blindness to reality. It is impossible to take you seriously.
Exactly. Unfortunately a lot of Mac user have no idea what doing a full reset is. You will also get the scammers selling bricked macs that have been hacked to function temporarily. It’s not a machine I would buy second hand from some stranger for top dollar. Too risky.
Sounds like those fleet buyers and institutions are being irresponsible. Buying any used computer can be tricky if you are not careful and don’t buy from someone you can verify.
Your points don’t change the fact that what buyers and sellers do is on them not on Apple. Apple has created a security feature called activation lock that renders my Mac useless to anyone who steals it, gives me the potential to track it and get it back if it’s stolen or I lose it, and keeps my data safe from others who get their hands on my hardware. Or substitute any other Apple customer for me in this paragraph.
That is a feature. Some of us value and appreciate that feature. It’s one of the reasons we choose to buy Macs. If sellers fail to deactivate and if buyers fail to check before buying or they buy from some shoddy place that doesn’t allow them to check and gives them no recourse, then that’s on the buyers and sellers in those transactions, and has nothing to do with Apple.
What’s the alternative? Remove the feature thus removing those protections for those of us who value that feature? No thanks.
Worst case scenario if someone or a company buys one or a thousand of these locked used macs and as a result the purchase is wasted and the device is “worthless” to them then they can send them to Apple to recycle. Your “Apple dumpsters” comment again shows your refusal to consider common sense and your stubborn, blind, biased, “blame everything on Apple” attitude.
Your original assertion was that Apple wants us to have the attitude of throw your old Mac in the dumpster and buy a new one. Nothing you have presented or argued backs up that claim. On the contrary Apple products hold their value better than any others remotely like them in the industry supporting their repeated resale for many years until eventually when someone at the end of that chain decides it’s not worth selling or even giving away they can take it back to Apple to recycle and not have it wind up in any dumpster or landfill.
Provide some evidence that that is not Apple’s attitude and you’ll have a case. Anecdotal evidence that some users fail to make use of the options Apple has provided is not a case for “Apple’s wasteful” etc attitude.
I'm not going to dig into the accuracy of the rest of your post, but the portion I quoted above really hits home. The problem I have is with us, the consumers. Buying a new computer every year just feeds the machine and helps dig the hole we're in deeper and deeper. Even if the discarded computer makes it into someone else's hands, the disposal of their computer, or a computer further down the line, has to happen. Overconsumption is a very big factor in what's killing us.
It's easy to think that our own behavior is such a small contribution to the problem and that our own desires outweigh other considerations. But, if such behavior is universally adopted, then we'd have a disaster on our hands. So I condemn the behavior itself, not any individual.
Who is buying a new computer every year? That seems like a straw man argument. Most Mac users I know are happy that their Macs last them several years. I regularly see people post about using a 10 year old computer. Just because Apple produces new versions doesn't mean that people are immediately switching.
I believe you're interpreting the behavior I'm condemning too narrowly. I'm not trying to present the overconsumption of computers as the issue. That would have been considered a straw man, giving us something to focus on when discussing a more general problem; overconsumption of computers is not an overwhelming issue. I'm condemning the general behavior of overconsumption, which is an actual, devastating problem; it's not a straw man.
Time and again on these forums the annual repurchase of computers is advised. Don't think of that as advocating overconsumption of computers, think of it as advocating overconsumption of material goods, buying things you don't need.
It's certainly a judgement call whether you need something or not. But often when someone says that they are buying an item to use for a number of years, someone else counters that frequently replacing such an item is better. That's an attempt to train someone out of responsible behavior towards one motivated by self-interest.
That's a new one to me. You can hack a bricked Mac to work temporarily? Wouldn't that just.. fix it?
it's in the article that some may have found potential ways, but may be temporary bridges. Who knows. That's a major concern in and of itself. Stolen laptops with temporary patches... who knows...
There is a line in the sand where you just accept bad things happen. People would encrypt their data/drive in the past. Seemed like it was a good solution. If you get your laptop stolen, perhaps that is just a societal risk you need to accept. So you have a locked laptop, someone now steals it and sells it for parts. Do the parts need to be activated now too? Then this bleeds into the right to repair your own equipment with parts you can scavenge from old machines you find in the future. Now you have to go to apple to repair your machine which inevitably results in a new machine purchase because of inflated costs of entire assembly replacements. This is a monopolistic practise from apple for the entire life span of their products. Apple is not dumb. They are absolute geniuses on selling themselves and maximizing profit margins. There is no part in which apple doesn't reap all the profit now. Sale, upgrade sale for storage and memory, accessory sales only compatible with apple devices, dongles for proprietary ports. I would make the argument of external display sales now because they are basically the only company that sells 5-6K displays that work with their HI-DPI scaling resolutions (they reduce GPU performance scaling an out of range DPI resolution 4K monitors as punishment for going third party). They make money from App Store sale revenues, iCloud services which they initiate on sign-in... repair, battery, trade-in, recycling. If you try to move away from apple for any of this, you can't... I really think all the marketing hype of them being the good guys and saving the world because they recycle your old machine is just PR nonsense. It is a culture driven by premium profit margins. Tim Cook has literally turned every machine into a highly maximized efficient production cost. It started with the iMac the instant jobs died, removing ram slots, getting rid of magnets holding the glass and replacing with sealed gaskets. all to save part costs and make it less user upgradeable going aftermarket for ram upgrades. It then moved to the Mac Pro, and all the portable devices. I am sure the butterfly keyboard was a severely cost reduced keyboard that bit them in the ass in the end. I don't know how to state the case any further. Apple is not the same company. They don't sell computers, they sell disposable devices now. These are boxes built on cost effective production at maximized profit margins for the total ownership.. all in the benefit of apple. If you give up on that device you stay in the cycle again by buying another apple device to replace your old one because you are stuck with final cut/logic or your data is held hostage in iCloud.
Tim has spent his entire time at apple perfecting this to make stock holders happy. Apple is forgetting who apple is again. This is NOT what 1999-2010 apple was like. I'll say it again. $20,000+ for a mid ranged MacPro.. $400 for the castors for the case. $1000 for a monitor stand. If you think this is normal.. well... I am just in a different universe I guess. The M1 is a really cool idea in processor idea. But apple is not interested in implementing it in a way to make it better for the professional user. We will see with the Mac Pro if it is ever released. I really hope they create a new subset version of the M processor for pros that allows user expandable and serviceable upgrades. It most likely won't though.
PC's are still outperforming. Technology is making huge leaps right now in regards to board bandwidth. DDR6, PCIe7, wifi7, thunderbolt 5 ... all coming soon... These things are going to make it a challenge for apple to keep up with a SOC design. I don't know how apple will be able to keep up making every faction of a computer. They are still struggling with GPU designs inside an SOC. I am not talking about media acceleration with video in final cut... I am talking gpu compute for real 3D artists and heck .. even gamers... These machines are still niche. If they have something up their sleeve, that will be great... I still think they are ridiculously priced disposable devices now though. The power/performance argument means nothing to a an actual power user.
Most average people don't sell their Macs independently... They will trade-in to apple if anything. Most just close the machine up and put it in a corner to drop off at donation centre or e-waste centre. At which point it will never be "RESET" and end up in landfill or hopefully recycled now because it can't be repurposed. I think you grossly over estimate people's intelligence and understanding of how to properly dispose of their apple computers. This again benefits apple as the resale market will be ultra narrow, spawning new sales. If you think any of this is not planned out by apple, you are very naive.
This is the apple I used to know for pricing on "Professional" machines: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2003/11/18Apple-Introduces-New-Dual-Processor-1-8-GHz-Power-Mac-G5/
Here is the apple you think is going to give you good money for your trade-in:
Apple Called Out for 'Brutal' Mac Trade-In Values Following Launch of New Models
Apple is facing criticism online for offering poor Mac trade-in values following this week's launch of new MacBook Pro and Mac mini models. ...
www.macrumors.com