MBA with M2 is a good box but it is still Apple's lowest end laptop. Anyone intending real work really should have an MBP instead.
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Apple Announces New MacBook Pros With M2 Pro and M2 Max Chips, Up to 96GB RAM, and More
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No doubt M1 MBP prices are now getting cheaper now that the M2 MBPs with more modern tech and tens of thousands of hours of engineering improvements finally are available.
You think it is a minor upgrade but I do not.
Keep an eye out for deals and if you are flexible in what you will accept you may save >$1k by buying last year's M1 tech, like I did buying a loaded 2016 MBP in 2017.
You mean a shell case that snaps on to your computer, or just putting it in a hard case?
I’m a bit leery about shell cases, as the clips or tabs that they use to attach to the Mac may cause stress to certain parts of the casing or unwanted scratches. They also add a bit more weight. I have one shell case for my MacBook Air M1 that I used for a while.
I have the MBP and MBA. What exactly is "real work" to you? Is a writer doing word processing not "real work." Someone doing Keynote presentations? Just some examples.
[also lowest end makes it sound like a "low end" computer! which it is decidedly not!]
Apple's trade-ins are simply a convenience for folks too lazy to sell their own gear via (ubiquitous) eBay, CraigsList, etc. Do not complain, just do the work if you want market prices.
You ask "What exactly is "real work" to you?" and my answer within the framework of this thread is tasks that tax a personal computer on an ongoing basis. So no, a writer doing word processing is not doing "real work" as regards taxing a personal computer; even though a writer may work very hard and get paid huge dollars for such work, it is trivial as far as computer demands. Keynote OTOH usually involves graphics, and graphics often can quickly tax a computer enough to be real work (for the computer); so the answer there is it depends.
We of course could spend thousands of words discussing what taxes a computer enough to be real work for the computer. But I think that most here can figure out the demands of their own workflows. Newbs may want counsel, which is fine; that is a major function of these fora.
Within Apple's computer world the MBA is the lowest end. Like I said, a nice box for trivial computing tasks like WP. But I recommend MBPs instead for folks who intend heavier computing tasks; heavier can either be due to degree of difficulty or due to the intended ongoing volume of work i/o; or both.
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Questions of "real work" aside 🙂 how much of the time during a day are you using Xcode and CC? Are you doing it for money or fun? Will you make enough money to fun the purchase of either an MBA or a MBP? Do you feel like you need to squeeze as much performance out as possible or are you OK with reasonably snappy performance most of the time for a reasonable price? Do you like spending money on fancy toys?
Once you can answer those questions to yourself you can start deciding. The MBA is fully capable of handling Xcode and Adobe. A MBP might be noticeably faster if you are really pushing what you can do with Xcode and Adobe. If your use is more casual, you might not notice the difference.
Agreed. Individuals comparing also do need to think about the specs:
MBA (2) TB3 ports versus MBP (4) TB4 ports is a huge difference. My 2016 MBP has (4) TB ports and making all the peripherals (printers, displays, devices, mass storage, card readers, etc.) work smoothly is a big ongoing PITA. Doing real work on an ongoing basis with only two TB3 ports for i/o would never work for me - - even though the power of the top M2 MBA could drive my workflow.
100 GB/s memory bandwidth versus 400.
RAM max 24 GB versus 64 or 96 GB. 24 is likely OK today but probably not so OK in 2025 with 2025 OS and app demands.
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Considering that Apple currently sells models with 8GB RAM (and they function surprisingly well), the thought that a a Mac with 24 GB of RAM will probably not be sufficient in 2 years seems rather unlikely, outside a very specific use case that would also make them insufficient today.
Yeah, I think you and I agree that country to country comparisons are apples to oranges. I’m just pointing out that taxes are strictly oranges, there really is no Apple in the taxes comparison.
I agree it's a hard comparison to make, but Apple are really price-gouging in some markets, and worse than they have before.
It does seem a peculiar pricing decision doesn't it, to step away from mainstream computing into the realm of high end luxury. I grew to like Apple decades back for offering a viable Windows alternative. I have more disposable income now at this stage in my life and can afford whatever I want from Apple, but they're making it increasingly hard to justify buying their products from a work perspective, especially with the extreme markup prices and unupgradable hardware. My partner also can't make use of Macs any more for her data science work, for multiple reasons.
Ultimately I don't need a Rolex to tell the time. Apple shouldn't aspire to that market segment, and they should remember that video editors aren't their only customers.
They really haven’t raise the prices in the US. It seems like areas where the currency exchange rates have been dramatically lower over the last year are where the prices really went up.
Fair enough. But I have lived Apple since one of the first 128k, and RAM needs have always constantly increased. Always.
Manufacturers make more RAM and memory bandwidth available, and app devs build additional competence into their apps that takes advantage of more modern hardware capability. But don't take my word for it; just review the history of RAM in Macs.
E.g. my 2016 max MBP ran its 2016 workflow fine under 16 GB RAM, yet today the same apps (newer app versions, newer OS) and lesser workflow page to SSD constantly. Apple knows where RAM needs are going, and Apple has been dramatically increasing available RAM options over the last few years. Even the Mac Mini is now available with up to 32 GB RAM and one can get 96 MB in a MBP.
My comments are as previously noted aimed at folks intending real taxing-a-computer work over the next 3-6 years; not some very specific use case but rather mainstream real work in graphics, art, CAD, video, music, development, photography, etc. And it is not about 24 GB "not be sufficient," but rather about whether one selects a new box expecting RAM demands to increase or one ignores history and assumes that what functions well today will also be optimal for the future.
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Where I live, the new base model 14" M2 Pro is $400 more expensive than the base model 14" M1 Pro, which amounts to a 17% increase. In fact, the base model M2 Pro is $150 more than the 10c CPU/14c GPU version of the 14" M1 Pro.
Despite this, would you agree that the M2 Pro base model is a better buy than the 10/14 M1 Pro (even if the former is $150 more expensive)? Since the M2 is a newer version, and has more GPU cores (16) than the 10/14 M1.
Despite this, would you agree that the M2 Pro base model is a better buy than the 10/14 M1 Pro (even if the former is $150 more expensive)? Since the M2 is a newer version, and has more GPU cores (16) than the 10/14 M1.
I wasn't complaining, not sure how you jumped to that conclusion, and I agree its a convenience thing. I know it had some value, everything does, just not enough to make it worthwhile for Apple trade in.
The starting price of a 15" MBP back in 2006 was $1,999 (around $3,000 in today's dollars) and a 17" was $2,799 (around $4,200 in today's dollars).
How are today's $1,999 (14") and $2,499 (16") starting prices extreme luxury brand territory?
I am upgrading from a 2018 MacBook Pro. It has 32 GB and a 2 TB SSD. I could have held out longer, but the kind of work I do on the machine has become much more taxing. The fans scream at me often. I sometimes put earplugs in so that I can focus on my work. 
Also, I'm starting to work on things that take a ton of RAM. In case anyone knows about this stuff, I'll be working with multiple Kubernetes clusters and other Docker containers not running in the clusters. I certainly will be explicitly allocating (at times, but rarely) 32 GB across all the containers.
I ordered the the M2 Max with 64 GB and 2 TB SSD. After Apple Care and tax, my bill was $5000; it took my breath away. Unfortunately, I'm self-employed, so I had to pay that all by myself. I almost feel that I didn't have a choice to not buy it. I don't know if I should have gotten the 96 GB, but I'm taking a gamble to save some money. 4 to 5 years is my usual time frame for upgrading. (I went from a 2013 MacBook Pro to a 2018 one, and now a 2023 one.) I do have a Windows machine. Running clusters on two separate physical machines could add some useful complexity to uncover issues. And, I really like Windows 11 (the UI much less than MacOS's) and WSL. Also, I should try to stay competent in the 3 major operating systems.
I did try once to get a deal advertised on Amazon for the M1, but they didn't offer 2 TB. My backup strategy would be much more complex if I couldn't keep everything on my main disk. My content now is at 753 GB. It doesn't seem to be growing very fast, but that could change.
At this point, I'm glad I waited. It could be that Apple's video announcement is a gross exaggeration. But, if not, I should expect significantly better performance from the M2 over the M1. The video explicitly mentions code compilation being 25% faster on the M2 Pro compared to the M1 Pro. That would cut down a 10 minute compile to a 7.5 minute one (my build is multi-threaded). I guess it's subjective what "minor" means, but if I'm the subject, that difference is major. I'm not sure my work will benefit that much getting M2 Max over the M2 Pro (the video announcement only shows Max improvement figures for content editing, so I guess the main improvements are GPU related). But, I had to get the Max to get 64 GB.
My only real qualms relate to this purchase being a further commitment to the Apple ecosystem. I've been so disappointed in the number of software related bugs in all of Apple products that I've been considering moving completely to Linux for my main computer (I'd keep my watch, phone, HomePod's, and Apple TVs). I enjoy Linux so much more than BSD. And Apple's support for their end users' use of the shell is pathetic (e.g. the man pages are always lacking or just missing). And, Linux is a better fit for the kind of work I've staring doing. But, I'd so sorely miss DEVONthink, DEVONAgent, Omni Group apps, and other wonderful tools. MacOS software can be fantastic, just not the stuff written by Apple. I guess keeping my current MacBook Pro running next to my development machine could work, but it would be a bit awkward.
Boy, I did run on quite a bit about stuff no one cares about. Any thoughts on 96 GB versus 64 GB from any of you developers or anyone else? I guess 64 GB is more than 64 GB due to memory compression. And, swapping to the SSD is not going to kill me. I would love some input. No one can answer what is the right choice, but different perspectives would help me.
Also, I'm starting to work on things that take a ton of RAM. In case anyone knows about this stuff, I'll be working with multiple Kubernetes clusters and other Docker containers not running in the clusters. I certainly will be explicitly allocating (at times, but rarely) 32 GB across all the containers.I ordered the the M2 Max with 64 GB and 2 TB SSD. After Apple Care and tax, my bill was $5000; it took my breath away. Unfortunately, I'm self-employed, so I had to pay that all by myself. I almost feel that I didn't have a choice to not buy it. I don't know if I should have gotten the 96 GB, but I'm taking a gamble to save some money. 4 to 5 years is my usual time frame for upgrading. (I went from a 2013 MacBook Pro to a 2018 one, and now a 2023 one.) I do have a Windows machine. Running clusters on two separate physical machines could add some useful complexity to uncover issues. And, I really like Windows 11 (the UI much less than MacOS's) and WSL. Also, I should try to stay competent in the 3 major operating systems.
I did try once to get a deal advertised on Amazon for the M1, but they didn't offer 2 TB. My backup strategy would be much more complex if I couldn't keep everything on my main disk. My content now is at 753 GB. It doesn't seem to be growing very fast, but that could change.
At this point, I'm glad I waited. It could be that Apple's video announcement is a gross exaggeration. But, if not, I should expect significantly better performance from the M2 over the M1. The video explicitly mentions code compilation being 25% faster on the M2 Pro compared to the M1 Pro. That would cut down a 10 minute compile to a 7.5 minute one (my build is multi-threaded). I guess it's subjective what "minor" means, but if I'm the subject, that difference is major. I'm not sure my work will benefit that much getting M2 Max over the M2 Pro (the video announcement only shows Max improvement figures for content editing, so I guess the main improvements are GPU related). But, I had to get the Max to get 64 GB.
My only real qualms relate to this purchase being a further commitment to the Apple ecosystem. I've been so disappointed in the number of software related bugs in all of Apple products that I've been considering moving completely to Linux for my main computer (I'd keep my watch, phone, HomePod's, and Apple TVs). I enjoy Linux so much more than BSD. And Apple's support for their end users' use of the shell is pathetic (e.g. the man pages are always lacking or just missing). And, Linux is a better fit for the kind of work I've staring doing. But, I'd so sorely miss DEVONthink, DEVONAgent, Omni Group apps, and other wonderful tools. MacOS software can be fantastic, just not the stuff written by Apple. I guess keeping my current MacBook Pro running next to my development machine could work, but it would be a bit awkward.
Boy, I did run on quite a bit about stuff no one cares about.
Any thoughts on 96 GB versus 64 GB from any of you developers or anyone else? I guess 64 GB is more than 64 GB due to memory compression. And, swapping to the SSD is not going to kill me. I would love some input. No one can answer what is the right choice, but different perspectives would help me.Is it worth $500 more to not be using using year-older tech for the 3-6 year life of a new MBP? And not have the MBP age out a year sooner? I say yes, but it gets down to personal finances.
All those tens of thousands of hours Apple engineers spent improving M1 to M2 have value.
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It’s crazy… I guess I’ll look for a refurb.
I couldn't give you any advise on the memory size. But I do want to give a warning for Docker. If you plan to run Linux x86_64 images on these Apple Silcon machines, be prepared for surprises. They are quite slow. Perhaps Docker may use Rosetta 2 to simulate Intel programs (Linux) in future, but so far, QEMU is used and it's very slow compared with the aarch64 based Linux images.I am upgrading from a 2018 MacBook Pro. It has 32 GB and a 2 TB SSD. I could have held out longer, but the kind of work I do on the machine has become much more taxing. The fans scream at me often. I sometimes put earplugs in so that I can focus on my work.
I ordered the the M2 Max with 64 GB and 2 TB SSD. After Apple Care and tax, my bill was $5000; it took my breath away. Unfortunately, I'm self-employed, so I had to pay that all by myself. I almost feel that I didn't have a choice to not buy it. I don't know if I should have gotten the 96 GB, but I'm taking a gamble to save some money. 4 to 5 years is my usual time frame for upgrading. (I went from a 2013 MacBook Pro to a 2018 one, and now a 2023 one.) I do have a Windows machine. Running clusters on two separate physical machines could add some useful complexity to uncover issues. And, I really like Windows 11 (the UI much less than MacOS's) and WSL. Also, I should try to stay competent in the 3 major operating systems.
I did try once to get a deal advertised on Amazon for the M1, but they didn't offer 2 TB. My backup strategy would be much more complex if I couldn't keep everything on my main disk. My content now is at 753 GB. It doesn't seem to be growing very fast, but that could change.
At this point, I'm glad I waited. It could be that Apple's video announcement is a gross exaggeration. But, if not, I should expect significantly better performance from the M2 over the M1. The video explicitly mentions code compilation being 25% faster on the M2 Pro compared to the M1 Pro. That would cut down a 10 minute compile to a 7.5 minute one (my build is multi-threaded). I guess it's subjective what "minor" means, but if I'm the subject, that difference is major. I'm not sure my work will benefit that much getting M2 Max over the M2 Pro (the video announcement only shows Max improvement figures for content editing, so I guess the main improvements are GPU related). But, I had to get the Max to get 64 GB.
My only real qualms relate to this purchase being a further commitment to the Apple ecosystem. I've been so disappointed in the number of software related bugs in all of Apple products that I've been considering moving completely to Linux for my main computer (I'd keep my watch, phone, HomePod's, and Apple TVs). I enjoy Linux so much more than BSD. And Apple's support for their end users' use of the shell is pathetic (e.g. the man pages are always lacking or just missing). And, Linux is a better fit for the kind of work I've staring doing. But, I'd so sorely miss DEVONthink, DEVONAgent, Omni Group apps, and other wonderful tools. MacOS software can be fantastic, just not the stuff written by Apple. I guess keeping my current MacBook Pro running next to my development machine could work, but it would be a bit awkward.
Boy, I did run on quite a bit about stuff no one cares about.
I'm using a M1 Pro MBP 16" with 32G memory. Plenty for my work flow. I'm just using Docker to do cross compile for different targets (Windows, Linux and macOS as well (with osxcross)).
Video editing, huge panorama shots in photography. Apparently some music producers/creators can run into RAM issues. I'm running on 32 GB on an M1 Max and it's felt fine 90% of the time. Sometimes run into issues when too many apps are open while browser tabs are running wild (like now).