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Apple Asking Feedback for Leopard 9A499

The new lit dock dots look dreadful - fortunately for me I am a Quicksilver user, so anything in my dock is open anyway :)

I have yet to test what the menubar "feels" like, but if its that bad, I can always put a white strip on the top of my backgrounds (many are white already)
 
macguy59 said:
I sure hope they get enough feedback on the desktop and interface. The transparent menu bar and new dock needs to be configurable. <ie> Be able to change it back to 10.4.x style.
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The menubar have been all the time, and I think the new dock looks better.
 
Apple may end up regretting their announced October ship date. If they slip again, they're going to look very foolish. Saying the end of calendar year '07, or even Q1 '08 would have given them more time to play with. Sure, they would have taken more flak (as MS did with Vista), but it isn't as if Tiger is in desperate need of replacement.
 
drmacnut said:
A survey like this is most likely not to figure how to fix stuff; so you can all stop worrying and shaking in your boots saying "oooh my gosh you mean there are things still broken in Leopard and we're only a couple of months from release?" They don't need to mail out survey invites to get feedback from ADC members under NDAs.

It is, on the other hand, a great way for the Marketing Dept to get some ideas on how to market Leopard when it comes out, based on the opinions of people who have actually used Leopard in its late stages of development.

Plain and simple.
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At last! A voice of reason in this thread. How refreshing!
 
swingerofbirch said:
I'm an online ADC member and didn't receive this. I guess they only want people with hands on experience to rate it.
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Since you can't legally have a copy of Leopard and post here about it, it would be rather pointless to ask for your opinion about it, wouldn't it?
 
I will have to agree with the point that Hayesk makes about expectation and age. I have been waiting for Leopard to make my purchase of an iMac and make the switch. While I have been waiting patiently, my patience has grown thin, but at least my wish to switch to Mac hardware has not slackened.

Now that I have Tiger and am messing around with it on a regular basis on an old dumpy G3 iMac my Dad loaned me (it works surprisingly well, actually), I am quite happy with the additional features (automator, what a brilliant idea!) and apps (free iLife 08 for example) that Tiger has over the ones that XP..err, doesn't. To me, I am happy that I have the apps I need to allow me to do a bit more in less time than I was doing in XP, let alone the whole Leopard/Tiger comparison.

In my position, I will be happy to upgrade to Leopard eventually, but when it does, hopefully I will have had enough time to get used to OSX and all its little quirks. Sure, Bootcamp non-beta and Time Machine will be great features, but for now, I am happy to get to know Tiger that bit better before I upgrade. After all, I'm sure I can afford the £70 upgrade - it'll probably be worth having anyway and certainly cheaper than other* offerings.

*You know who I'm talking about. Grrr Vista...
 
I forgot to add that it is unreasonable to consider any OS "perfect" or "bug free", so regardless of the release schedule, there will be bugs in a newly-released OS. This goes for OSX as much as Vista, Linux, whatever, but I don't think it's a particularly big deal if Apple wants to ask questions of its developers, it could be for a variety of reasons. It's whether Apple are able to respond to any particularly taxing problems and fix them properly in a short space of time that is important. Judging by their usual standard, Apple seem to be pretty much on the ball with their fixes and updates, so I don't think it's a cause for concern.

As for the release date, well, it could be Trick or Treat time. I hope there's a line of people in Cupertino willing to try Jobs' office at Infinite Loop on the 31st - I would love it if he said "Instead of sweets, you can have a copy of Leopard instead".

Also I would just like to say:

developers developers developers developers :D
 
nickelcokes said:
Can somebody with the latest Leopard build tell me the version numbers of:

1. zsh (run "zsh --version")
2. Python (run "python -V")
3. cups (run "cups-config --version")
4. rsync (run "rsync --version")
5. gcc (run "gcc --version")
6. wxWidgets (run "wx-config --version")
7. OpenSSH and OpenSSL (run "ssh -V")

Despite all the hype about the new graphical features, these are the things that matter most to me, and nobody talks about them.
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Well it is under NDA still. :)
 
Apple is realizing their own in house research is falling short on their software. What they are looking for are bits that they glossed over. With 150 features, or new features, it is easy to not explore every possibility. There might be some feature creep, but most of this is probably aimed at getting the basic stuff nailed down well.

I assume OS X 10.5 is going to be their major accomplishment, and they want it to be nearly perfect right out the door.
 
Apple and MS

mwxiao said:
That's interesting. When VISTA got delayed, we all laughed at MS.

Now leopard is delayed, you are telling me it doesn't matter?
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Yeah, the difference between months and years. The difference between a new OS and a makeover. The difference between innovation and renovation. No comparison. A short delay, is quite okay.
 
shawnce said:
Well it is under NDA still. :)
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I know... but one has to wonder about the intentions behind the NDA. I imagine there are two possibilities:

1. You don't want to tip your hand to your competitors before you have to. This doesn't apple to these freely-available packages, since the competitors already have equal access to them.

2. You don't want the customer base getting angry when they find out you've backed out Python 2.5 to use 2.4 instead. Of course, most of these packages are probably of more interest to developers than regular users, and developers are more likely to have access to the Leopard previews. It may be you're already tipping your hand to the people who will be most annoyed if you revert to older versions of these packages!

If somebody wants to test my theory that Apple doesn't care about this question, post the version numbers and we'll see what happens!
 
Oh geez, this is comical. Apple asks for feedback to put the finishing touches on Leopard's experience, and everyone goes nuts saying "nothing's ready! Leopard's gonna be delayed again, I just can't think of a good reason why! no reason not to panic though!"

How many of yall have seen the latest builds of Leopard? Very very few, I'd imagine, if any. How many have ever used 9A499 for that matter? There is such speculation in this thread that its amazing. Apple asked developers for feedback so they could get the well-know Apple polish even better than before this time. I'm not sure why. Maybe they just value what their developers think, crazy I know. I will tell you, though, that if Leopard went Golden Master right now...I doubt many would be disappointed (in a general sense, sure there's bugs to fix.)

;)
 
Hey everybody, I just joined to say a couple things about the new OS..

I believe that Apple does have their stuff together, but if they plan on rushing the new OS out, isn't that the same mistake other computer companies have had in the past? I say we don't worry on release dates, and focus on the quality of the release..

Sure Vista was delayed umpteen times, however we all know that is Apple delays Leopard as many times as Vista was delayed Time Machine will probably end up taking you back in time.

Now, when I used Leopard I had some MAJOR issues..I know it is a beta, but my iMovie and iDvd, plus the MS suite, and even mail didn't work properly. I know I installed it right, plus I even did a fresh install to experience the whole new feel of the OS. That kind of worries me, but I haven't tried out the new build, and I will not just because I want to wait for the final version, due to the fact that I am pretty lazy, and busy, and just to see how much it has changed since I last used it.

The one thing that I loved about the new OS was the spaces feature. I use a lot of programs at once, and even though I have a 20" iMac and a MBP, I tend to run out of space on the desktop.. So the spaces feature was really nice, but in addition to having certain windows move onto certain "screens" I would also like to see the ability to put whatever document on whatever screen you wanted to. In other words, I want the ability to have 1-32 desktops :p

BTW nice to met you all.
 
swingerofbirch said:
I'm an online ADC member and didn't receive this. I guess they only want people with hands on experience to rate it.
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Have you downloaded and installed the latest beta? Maybe Apple tracks that and only sent out email to those who have installed it. Or maybe Apple just sent out email to a random sample of developers.

Don't know. I got one though. :p
 
matticus008 said:
That depends entirely on the nature of issues reported. Developers submit comments and bug reports throughout the process. That's not what this is for. This is designed to assess workflow and usability. It seems to me they're looking for what areas need polish and for any potential backwards steps introduced by new features. They're turning their attention to tying up loose ends other than general bugfixing.

Not all of the issues they find will be fixed by the time Leopard ships--not all of them will be fixed at all.

It's taking a step back and looking at the big picture. Developers work so hard on the little details and the single issues and bugs that sometimes it helps to be reminded to lift your nose out of all the corners and crevices.

All it really shows is that they're looking to start the polishing process and to make sure everything is integrated well. I seriously doubt they have any plans to do any major rewrites this close to release. This probably has the greatest benefit to the UI people, not the coders. It has the convenient added benefit of point out areas to highlight in advertising (and areas to avoid calling too much attention to).
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Thank you for your usual well thought out comments and none of the sky is falling the sky is falling mindset that has creeped into this thread. Of course I have a vested interest in this as I will be getting my new iMac as soon as Leopard comes out so do hope there is no delay. We all know mistakes are made and there will be updates, that just goes with the territory. Lets hope none are major.
 
ipedro said:
October 31st @ 11:59 PST
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About 6 weeks ago an Apple rep told a friend of mine that they were shooting for October 31st. Given the complaints on stability that I have read about on web sites like these, the Apple engineers are going to have a tough 6-8 weeks ahead of them.

We should send them pizza, chocolate, and soda.
 
Random Ping said:
Given the complaints on stability that I have read about on web sites like these, the Apple engineers are going to have a tough 6-8 weeks ahead of them.
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They will be working hard, but many of the stability issues have been fixed in the last 10 builds. Build 9A499 was release to developers a good while ago; there have been many builds since then.
 
Southern said:
Now that I have Tiger and am messing around with it on a regular basis on an old dumpy G3 iMac my Dad loaned me (it works surprisingly well, actually), I am quite happy with the additional features (automator, what a brilliant idea!) and apps (free iLife 08 for example) that Tiger has over the ones that XP..err, doesn't. To me, I am happy that I have the apps I need to allow me to do a bit more in less time than I was doing in XP, let alone the whole Leopard/Tiger comparison.

In my position, I will be happy to upgrade to Leopard eventually, but when it does, hopefully I will have had enough time to get used to OSX and all its little quirks. Sure, Bootcamp non-beta and Time Machine will be great features, but for now, I am happy to get to know Tiger that bit better before I upgrade. After all, I'm sure I can afford the £70 upgrade - it'll probably be worth having anyway and certainly cheaper than other* offerings.

*You know who I'm talking about. Grrr Vista...
Click to expand...

Unfair analysis and comparison. First of all, iLife '08 comes pre-bundled with new Macs since (August 7, 2007) or a $79 dollar retail price. You are using an iMac G3 which probably came out in 1999, which probably came with OS 8.6 or OS 9.1 (iLife '08 requires a G4 processor). In this case you had to upgrade at a cost. iLife is not a part of Tiger. Applications similar to iLife are either free downloads for XP and or come with Windows Vista. They may not be the same quality as iLife, but they are available to the user on Windows with the OS or as a download.

I don't have a problem with comparisons, but make them true and fair. Right now, its Vista vs. Tiger, simply because those are the latest from both Company's. Similar to when Apple was promoting Tiger vs. XP because those were the latest on the market when making comparisons. I have read a lot of hypocrisy in this thread. When Microsoft delayed Vista, you made fun of Microsoft from dawn till dust. When its the other way around, its sacred and right. Apple is not immune to software development issues. The only "only" feature Microsoft dropped from Vista was WinFS, everything else that was promised, came with the RTM. Vista's issues are not related to buggy software either, its device driver support thats the problem and in most cases its the 64-bit version, not the 32-bit version which comes with all OEM machines and in the retail versions of Vista. The only thing I see missing in Vista, is an automation tool, but, its likely with so much third party support for the platform, you should be able to find one anyway.

I don't want to be a party pooper either, but, OS X upgrades over the years cost just as much or even more than Vista today:

OS 10.0 - $129
OS 10.1 - $29
OS 10.2 - $129
OS 10.3 - $129
OS 10.4 - $129
OS 10.5 - $129

Total: $674

For the majority of Windows users, when they buy a new release of Windows through retail, its usually the upgrade version:

XP Home $99
XP Professional $199

Vista Home Premium $220
Vista Business $250

Still cheaper than OS X upgrades over the years.
Other factors include that XP was ready at RTM, OS 10.0 was not ready at GM and both were released in 2001. Consumers see XP as good enough even today that Microsoft had to create more activation keys for it. It took OS X until Panther to reach good enough state. Also, Academic upgrade pricing does not count, since thats only a segement of the market. If do want to count it in, I will do the same with Vista which usually cost $40 when purchased through the University.

(Runs for cover).
 
Mr. Dee said:
I don't want to be a party pooper either, but, OS X upgrades over the years cost just as much or even more than Vista today:

OS 10.0 - $129
OS 10.1 - $29
OS 10.2 - $129
OS 10.3 - $129
OS 10.4 - $129
OS 10.5 - $129

Total: $674

For the majority of Windows users, when they buy a new release of Windows through retail, its usually the upgrade version:

XP Home $99
XP Professional $199

Vista Home Premium $220
Vista Business $250
Click to expand...


That is all well and good. However, which OS would you rather buy..
 
Random Ping said:
Have you downloaded and installed the latest beta? Maybe Apple tracks that and only sent out email to those who have installed it. Or maybe Apple just sent out email to a random sample of developers.
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It's probably those ADC members who either have been to WWDC or have a software Seed Key. It is possible for an online user to receive a seed key from a Select member.
 
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