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Wish I was in their position
They should give me a bonus (doubling my shares held) for having stuck with them over the years...I wonder if the records exist to make such a reward to small shareholders who got in early?
 
They should give me a bonus (doubling my shares held) for having stuck with them over the years...I wonder if the records exist to make such a reward to small shareholders who got in early?

You would have been amply reimbursed in the form of a share price increase, and there is always the option to cash out by selling your existing shares for a decent gain. :eek:

That's why I don't understand why people keep complaining that Apple doesn't issue dividends. You want money, just sell your existing stock!
 
Go 1%!!!! :D

Thank God for the 1% who create products and jobs for the rest of us.

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Maybe they could have put some of that my towards a dividend. :(

Can you seriously be upset with the ROI on Apple stock?

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Appalling toughing by the 1%. What bonuses are the rank and file going to get? How about the Foxxcon workers? Perhaps Apple could fund a suicide hotline for them?

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That's just the thing. If they do a bad job they'll usually have a contract that gives them a lottery win if fired.

Plus the poor and the middle class are being trampled into the mud - the cost of living, the cost of an education, the cost of housing and insurance, the need to pay more and more for things that used to be free. That's what top execs at companies that sell beautiful but ultimately expensive and futile tat should be worried about - Henry Ford new that unless business people paid their workers well the market for their products could never grow.

We need to look at the root cause for the perceived problems. Costs are going up because unions and law suits plus a lot more. We're part of the problem (e.g. lawyers and the 99%). I strongly feel that the sole reason America is so strong is because we encourage and reward hard work and performance. If the reward (e.g. money, power, freedom) of success were removed we'd become another crappy country of social equality (except for those who are "more equal than the others") and mediocrity.

Those who are complaining the loudest are probably those who are too lazy to work hard or too spoiled to appreciate what they have. I work hard and make little but I get a lot of satisfaction from my efforts and know I earned them...they weren't handed out to me.
 
Tech companies don't pay dividends. This is almost a golden rule.

Buying tech stocks expecting dividends is not a good investment strategy. Some companies have, on occasion, paid out but that's a minority. The few cents per share or so is a nice little surprise but don't hold your breath waiting for one.

Other big movers like GOOG, YHOO, and AMZN publicly say that they won't pay out dividends and will retain all their earnings in the future.

The avg. tech company doesnt have 80bn in the bank either. If i owned AAPL stock (i dont anymore), i would do it so that my cash were put to work. If my cash is in fact just cash in Apples droors, well. I'd rather invest them myself. I think thats the main line of thinking with people wanting Apple to pay dividend. Use the money, and if you cant, pay it out and let us do our thing. Money just sitting - no thanks.

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Arn,

Does this mean then that the great designer Jony Ivey is leaving? I hope to God this is not true.

Yes, he's going to Samsung. They paid him 1 bn won as a sign on bonus.
 
A research fact? Really? Whose research would that be? Probably not the current Greek population.

You know what's obscene? Income redistribution. And don't forget what Margaret Thatcher once said (probably paraphrased, not sure it's the exact quote).

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money."

All of you are so quick to complain about what other people earn. Blah blah. It's a simple fact of life that some are more talented, more driven, more capable, more dedicated than others. There is no big sign in the sky that says life is fair. Sometimes it sucks. Bust your ass and do the best you can. Get a life. Deal with it, and stop bitching and moaning about somebody else.

You would have a point if the Greek society could be considered "equal". Now, you just come across as yet another uneducated American. Good job!

While the rest of the westernized world is going to ****, the Scandinavian model still stands strong; despite the ever increasing burden of refugee streams caused by your (holy) "War on terrorism".

Wake up and smell the coffee, or wake up one morning making Apple phones for 0.7 in the new Foxconn factory. Your future, your choice.
 
So shouldn't people protest against healthcare companies, insurance companies, colleges, etc for these obscene costs? An iMac at $2000 seems pretty reasonable if you compare it to a MRI which costs the same on an average.. and yet the same MRI costs $200 in India (same scanner, equipment, etc) So why such a huge disparity in costs? Why is it $40,000+ for a year of college (Mba)?

Healthcare should be cheap enough that there wouldn't be any need for health insurance. I never heard of anyone going bankrupt because of health costs until I moved to this country. It's insane.. and yet, people seem to vent their fury towards companies that make luxury goods or non-essential items, when in reality they should be targetting the essential services sector.Workers are not getting poorer because their salary is reducing. Heck, people in this country get paid a LOT, and have a lot of benefits compared to other countries.
The problem is, that people are fleeced by the government and by basic services (as I mentioned in my previous post) which is why they are getting 'poorer'.

Of course we should be protesting the cost of health care.... hell I work in the health care field and I think it's totally outrageous what things cost. However you lost me at the government fleecing part. The average workers wage has actually decreased if you take inflation into account..... that has nothing to do with the government and your so called fleecing.

Thank God for the 1% who create products and jobs for the rest of us. Can you seriously be upset with the ROI on Apple stock? We need to look at the root cause for the perceived problems. Costs are going up because unions and law suits plus a lot more. We're part of the problem (e.g. lawyers and the 99%). I strongly feel that the sole reason America is so strong is because we encourage and reward hard work and performance. If the reward (e.g. money, power, freedom) of success were removed we'd become another crappy country of social equality (except for those who are "more equal than the others") and mediocrity.
Those who are complaining the loudest are probably those who are too lazy to work hard or too spoiled to appreciate what they have. I work hard and make little but I get a lot of satisfaction from my efforts and know I earned them...they weren't handed out to me.

Boy have you been drinking the cool aid! So the 1% makes jobs huh.... so where are these jobs? To blame unions and lawsuits for the economic problems is a silly argument that just doesn't hold water. If you can produce some proof of this I would be happy to admit I was wrong, but I bet you can't find any credible proof that what you say is true. To call people lazy because they are protesting is also very narrow minded.
 
You do realize that the right to personal property is just an agreement brought by human conflicts in the last couple thousand years, and a controversial one, right?

I was going to continue, but this is just the stupidest thing I've heard in recent weeks. Whatever.

Randians like to believe that "rights" are holy, near God given (without the God). When asked to explain why, they throw "axioms" in your face. Quite sad, actually. To paraphrase Mr. T. i (almost) pity the fools.
 
I don't begrudge anyone a living it's just the continuing disparity between what the top executives get and what the average worker makes. We can only hope that Apple shared some of their success with all who work for them. Too many times the average worker gets nothing or even worse ends up losing because of increased benefit costs while the upper tier gets an exponential increase. It's the gap that is so troubling. We are pushing middle income America closer to the poverty line.
 
If there were plenty of smart people who could do what the team at Apple does, then why didn't HP hire them for webOS?

(This ignores the whole stability for the stock price and perception thing, as well as leadership and general internal stability.)

Because, believe it or not, these people are not as valuable as you are led to believe. If history has shown us anything, it is that. Even the so called great, fail. Even the so called fail, succeed.

I read a telling story the other day about a new bank movement in Kenya (mobile banking, changing entire societies). According to the story, a man working for the telephone company one day had a great idea. After working the kinks out, he pitches his idea to the board. To his surprise the board is anything but forthcoming, calling his idea a pipe dream. A few months later the man is now unemployed. Walking down the street he sees a large crowd, and goes up to see what the fuzz is all about. What meets his eye he will never forget. Mobile banking, just as he had imagined it.
 
First let me state that I'm not coming back to get entangled in this argument. I just want to point out a few things that I think you're missing here. As someone else said it's opinion, and far from fact.

You may find it obscene to pay someone X amount of dollars, and that's fine. I dislike greed as much as the next guy. But, unlike the OWS people, I stand by the right of the parties involved to create their own terms. No one forces you to work somewhere where you feel you can't be compensated. If you're stuck, that sucks, but that doesn't mean you can't try to better your situation.

And in this case, these people are basically being paid a retainer. Apple has all the right to pay those people to retain their talent for Apple's future success.

Sure, they could pay the base employees more, but they don't represent the same value. And I'd be willing to bet that they don't invest themselves in Apple as much as the execs. So they have a choice—jump ship or try to move up in the company, just as the execs did. The execs didn't start at the top you know. Obviously it's possible to get to the top.

And that get's me to your American Dream comment. The people who slave away in a crappy job all day aren't always trying to better themselves. If they were, they'd save their money and make good financial decisions. They wouldn't be working a job they hate. I'm not saying that there aren't people stuck in bad situations, but they're certainly not the majority. Others are just content at where they are. They have a mortgage, and a family, and that's enough. And that's a dream in itself and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.



What about inflation? A dollar in 1950 would be worth about $9.29 now. That means a current dollar is about 1/9 the value of what a dollar would have been in 1950. You could also look at it as needing to work 9 times as much to have the same standard of living.

So adding this to their calculations you'd need to work 360 hours to break even. I made it 40 hours, because I've never heard of a 44 hour work week (11x4). So that would mean that, factoring in a productivity increase, you'd need to work 90 hours to maintain a 1950s standard of living. So I'd say we're ahead of the curve.

Additionally, I'd argue that our standard of living is, for the most part, higher than in 1950.

This is why I hate most studies. They don't factor in other things that are relevant to the discussion. And I left out differences in income taxes because I didn't want to bother. It was higher then, but probably not enough to work more than twice the hours.



One reason the top people at a company make more is because they have invested capital. They are taking a risk. It's business 101. Greater risk = greater reward.

Also, you're really oversimplifying this. For one thing, it costs way more to produce something than just labor. You also have material costs in the case of products, you have equipment, software, rent, utilities, government regulations that mandate how you must do certain things (OSHA, etc), health insurance, FICA contributions, payroll taxes, disability, various other insurances, etc.

So yeah, at the end of the day the top guys are reaping a majority of the benefit, but they're also putting up all the capital necessary for someone to earn a wage.




Being a Libertarian, I'd say that what is appropriate is whatever the market will bear. The market is a good thing. The problem is, government tampers with it too much. We don't actually have a free market. That's why we have things like the bailouts that the OWS protesters—and I by the way—are totally against. My issue with the OWS—besides some fringe stupidity in not understanding how business or economics work—is that they're hating on a symptom and not a cause. Bankers will do what they will no matter what. Crony capitalism is the problem—not capitalism or free markets. If they didn't have the security of being "too big to fail" they would have failed or made safer decisions. I bet they would have chosen the latter.

I'd also like to add that what does it matter what private entities do with their money? If they're not using government funds, it really doesn't matter. They're not taking anything away from me. If they think someone is worth 60 million that's their prerogative, not mine.




Ah, closer to my industry. Familiarity is good. Look, this example is EXACTLY the same. The star brings in the money and his reputation sells the film. He invests his reputation, and he is compensated thusly. He could just as easily go with another production. So he must be paid enough or incentivized enough so that he chooses to spend his time with that production rather than another.



If you're trudging to work, you're not following the American Dream. It's a land of opportunity, not a land of guarantee. I think it's pretty clear.

Getting laid off due to the economy was the best thing that happened to me. Now I have freedom. I pick my clients. No one can tell me what to do and I'm making roughly the same amount of money while spending way less time working on jobs I don't like. And if I happen to take a job I end up hating, it's temporary.

The American Dream is about creating your own wealth. If you don't believe it's possible, that's fine. But all you have to do is look around to find tons of stories of people who are successful and did it on their own. They became entrepreneurs and sweated it out in their home offices, garages, etc. Hell, even Apple started out in a garage. So for you to say that it's a dream designed to dupe the middle class to keep them subservient is kind of a slap in the face of everyone that has taken the initiative to make something of themselves.




I'll leave you with another. Do you think that if every company in the US did the same thing, it would be wonderful? Or do you see that if every company were able to double the salary of every worker that everything would cost twice as much and we'd be no better off? Actually, we'd be even worse off because we'd be able to compete in the global market even less than we already do now.

It's sad, but we've priced ourselves out of a lot of things. That's kind of why we don't really build much anymore, and why Toyota is the largest car brand.

If you have the time, watch the video of Peter Schiff (one of the people who predicted exactly what would happen before the recession hit) talking to the OWS protestors. He explains this well. We want things to be cheap but we want to be compensated well to make them. Those things are, unfortunately, mutually exclusive if a company is to profit.

This is just my take. I think your side tends to oversimplify and my side sees things too black and white. I think there are good parts to the OWS argument, but it's overshadowed by a lack of understanding. If they got it, they'd be protesting Congress, not Wall St.

Long post, so i'll just say this. Your math is wrong. Inflation is irrelevant as quality of life in itself would be inflation adjusted, so to speak; i.e., to maintain the same QoL you'd need real - inflation adjusted - wage growth at >0.

In your terms, if 1 dollar then equals 9.29 today, all else equal doing the same job then as now would get you 9.29 times the pay. Problem is, according to his figures, you are - in essence - working 4 times "as hard", but getting less than 4 times your pay.

To examplify, we can take a situation in which you got $1 for creating a value of $10 in 1950.
in todays money (rounded up), that would equal a pay of $10 for creating a value of $100.

Problem is, you are now creating a value of $400, not $100 - but you're pay has not gone from $10 to $40. In essence, while producing MORE you are receiving a LESSER share of the value created.

Granted, to maintain our absolute standard we only need a wage level of 10. But is that fair to the worker? Shouldnt he too be able to enjoy the fruits of his now more producive labour?
 
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So shouldn't people protest against healthcare companies, insurance companies, colleges, etc for these obscene costs? An iMac at $2000 seems pretty reasonable if you compare it to a MRI which costs the same on an average..

They totally should. The US spends more on healthcare than any country on earth yet leaves millions without decent healthcare and has health outcomes well below the best (which are universally mixed economy nations). So yeah, the private healthcare system and big pharma is really taking the pee out the US.

Oh, and most drugs do little or nothing yet cost a a bomb.
 
Hey, I do an exceptional job at what I do! Where is my $50 mil?

I feel a sense of loyalty to my company, and even more so to my co-workers. If I did not, I would have have jumped ship long ago (and be no doubt better off financially).

Apparently, your company doesn't care if you leave. You're easily replaceable. That's the whole issue here. Some people are easily replaceable, no matter how "hard" they work. There's a difference between working hard and doing hard work. Factory workers work hard. But it's easy work. CEOs don't "work hard" in the physical sense, but it's much, much HARDER work. There are only a few people in the world that can do it. Hence, they're much more valuable.

I'm sure there are plenty of smart engineers at Apple who will gladly take his place and do just as good a job.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good yarn! Jeez. :rolleyes:
 
Thank God for the 1% who create products and jobs for the rest of us.
That's the thing, though. They are aren't the ones creating the products or the jobs. The coders and engineers and factory workers are. Yeah, Jony Ive certainly takes a personal hand in hardware design, just like Steve Jobs personally dabbled in this and that section of Apple. But it's not those seven people who necessitate the jobs of all those other rank and file employees. You have it backwards. It's all those "little people" that give the CxO's a job. The reason these high rank positions are required is because Apple as an organization is that large. Do small businesses have a president and vice president of every section of their operations? No. Do they need a layer of "regional manager" administration above their local administration? No. All that extra management (and the overhead it adds to payroll) are not necessary in smaller operations. Apple wouldn't be a company large enough to require these new positions were it not hugely successful. And it's hugely successful because of the products those "regular employees" make that people want.

Many companies seem to have these extra layers of management and positions, whether they truly need them is debatable. But I can tell you that all it looks like to "the rest of us" is a bunch of guys in suits who have set themselves up to skim their living expenses from the top of the revenue heap that the rest of us earned the company.


Those who are complaining the loudest are probably those who are too lazy to work hard or too spoiled to appreciate what they have. I work hard and make little but I get a lot of satisfaction from my efforts and know I earned them...they weren't handed out to me.
No, it's those of us who work hard 40+ hours a week and aren't given even a cost of living raise for three years in a row. Oh, and then our employer cuts our health benefits, too. All the while handing out raises to people who could stop working for an entire year and live off their savings account with no change in lifestyle.
 
Apparently, your company doesn't care if you leave. You're easily replaceable. That's the whole issue here. Some people are easily replaceable, no matter how "hard" they work. There's a difference between working hard and doing hard work. Factory workers work hard. But it's easy work. CEOs don't "work hard" in the physical sense, but it's much, much HARDER work. There are only a few people in the world that can do it. Hence, they're much more valuable.



Don't let facts get in the way of a good yarn! Jeez. :rolleyes:

Any proof is this so common claim? I'm not saying its an easy job, just suspect the merits of higher-ups are... somewhat overrated.
 
Any proof is this so common claim? I'm not saying its an easy job, just suspect the merits of higher-ups are... somewhat overrated.

The carcasses of thousands of companies that never achieved success, or the failing death-spiral of most of the other "once weres" in the tech industry? Proof enough? ;-)
 
The carcasses of thousands of companies that never achieved success, or the failing death-spiral of most of the other "once weres" in the tech industry? Proof enough? ;-)

No. Not by any means. Why would it be?
 
No. Not by any means. Why would it be?

Are you serious? Wow. It's tough to run a successful company. Really, really, REALLY tough. The vast majority of companies fail, because of this. The people that have successful companies are doing a tough job, and doing it well. The people that are at the top of one of the most successful companies in the world are doing a VERY tough job, and doing it VERY well.
 
Those who do the work

What do those who do the work get? And where in the list is Jonathan Ive?

How does 1,000,000 shares contribute to "Stay hungry, stay foolish"?
 
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Are you serious? Wow. It's tough to run a successful company. Really, really, REALLY tough. The vast majority of companies fail, because of this. The people that have successful companies are doing a tough job, and doing it well. The people that are at the top of one of the most successful companies in the world are doing a VERY tough job, and doing it VERY well.

Yes i am serious. Like already stated. greats fail, failures succeed. Yes, it is hard - I never questioned that. Cheers.
 
So far losing Jobs' leadership cost $400,000,000.

A simple dirty look and pat on the back from Jobs would have kept them around in the past.
 
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