Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apparently, your company doesn't care if you leave. You're easily replaceable. That's the whole issue here. Some people are easily replaceable, no matter how "hard" they work.
The upper management also likes to think everyone's easily replaceable when they're not (except them of course). Have you ever noticed how general service at the businesses you patronize goes down as time goes on? That's what happens when businesses don't make efforts to retain good low-level workers by, say, sharing the company's success with them, and instead line the pockets of a few key people who already have a Porsche or two in their driveways.

There's a difference between working hard and doing hard work. Factory workers work hard. But it's easy work. CEOs don't "work hard" in the physical sense, but it's much, much HARDER work. There are only a few people in the world that can do it.
Wonder where all those thousands of MBAs our business schools crank out every year go.

And from what I see on the news, even the ones that can't do the work, and run the company into the ground, come out with their golden parachute. Everyone else just gets a pink slip. Can I haz accountability now?

Any proof is this so common claim? I'm not saying its an easy job, just suspect the merits of higher-ups are... somewhat overrated.
Here, here!
 
Ah executives after my own heart. Now jack up the price of macs and lets make sure the faithful pay like they have never paid before.:D

----------

The upper management also likes to think everyone's easily replaceable when they're not (except them of course). Have you ever noticed how general service at the businesses you patronize goes down as time goes on? That's what happens when businesses don't make efforts to retain good low-level workers by, say, sharing the company's success with them, and instead line the pockets of a few key people who already have a Porche or two in their driveways.

Wonder where all those thousands of MBAs our business schools crank out every year go.

And from what I see on the news, even the ones that can't do the work, and run the company into the ground, come out with their golden parachute. Everyone else just gets a pink slip. Can I haz accountability now?


Here, here!

Its the name of the game, sorry to hear your not part of the 1% :rolleyes:
 
Interesting tit bit of information;

Jony's contract ensures he gets two servings of beer battered haddock and chips every friday and saturday.*

I'm going to design a 'chippy' using Dieter Rams ten principals of good design :)


*a total lie.
 
Thank God for the 1% who create products and jobs for the rest of us.

----------



Can you seriously be upset with the ROI on Apple stock?

----------



We need to look at the root cause for the perceived problems. Costs are going up because unions and law suits plus a lot more. We're part of the problem (e.g. lawyers and the 99%). I strongly feel that the sole reason America is so strong is because we encourage and reward hard work and performance. If the reward (e.g. money, power, freedom) of success were removed we'd become another crappy country of social equality (except for those who are "more equal than the others") and mediocrity.

Those who are complaining the loudest are probably those who are too lazy to work hard or too spoiled to appreciate what they have. I work hard and make little but I get a lot of satisfaction from my efforts and know I earned them...they weren't handed out to me.

Yes, you are right that Americans are generally incredibly hardworking. Encountering Americans in the workplace they definitely live to work not work to live. British people, in general, are the laziest bunch of coasters going - well management anyway, the proles are sloggers. But then Germans and Norwegians have the same huge work ethic of the Americans YET enjoy a much shorter working week, more holidays, and much better social care. So America isn't great because it fellates the rich and stamps on the poor. Like Norway and Germany it's probably more the protestant worth ethic.

Plus if you spend time in Scandinavia almost EVERYWHERE looks rich. Travel through New Jersey and it looks like Romania.

The real reason the US has done so well is of course the end of Breton Woods, when the paper dollar replaced real money as the world's reserve currency. It meant America could pursue inflationary policies as there was always a foreign banks willing to lock up dollars in a vault somewhere, thus cushioning the effect. Also, it meant the US to snarf up commodities in its native currency giving a huge competitive advantage. If the Russians, Arabs and Chinese got so nervous over the trashing of the dollar they looked to hold something else, or trade in something else, costs to the US would skyrocket fast. There are signs this is already happening.

Turning to some of the other posts suggesting CEOs a re godmen walking the earth with special skills only a tiny few possess I say..... ahahahahahaahahaha The godmen have trashed billion dollar companies all over the place with follies Doreen the cleaning lady could have told you were daft. Believe me, I've seen senior management with little more insight than people 20 rungs below.

We all know scrapping the larger iMacs and making a mini-tower would with Apple new converts and more £££ (especially as the Mac App Store ramps up making new Mac user worth a whole lot more), for instance. We all knew the relatively unsuccessful loo-seat iBook was rubbish, we all knew the Cube didn't make sense when a cheaper G4 tower had more, we all knew that foisting Final Cut X on the pro market in the way they did was a joke (and I love Final Cut X). Are we all godmen too?
 
Last edited:
I have NO problem with huge bonuses for performance but these aren't even really based on performance. 1) They're grants. So the execs have $0 cost basis. So no matter how poorly they do, this is 100% profit for them. If the stock is at $200 (down 50%!) they still collect ~$30M for that failure. 2) Tightly related, these grants are SO huge that it hardly matters what they do. As I already mentioned, if they do a terrible job, they will still walk away with more money than everyone in this thread has combined!
 
Ah executives after my own heart. Now jack up the price of macs and lets make sure the faithful pay like they have never paid before.:D

----------



Its the name of the game, sorry to hear your not part of the 1% :rolleyes:

As if you are.
 
Steve left plans for the company for the next 4/5 years at least including products. This is part of those plans...

Get over yourself saying no one should have that reward being give. If you were in their shoes, I'd go as far and call you hypocrites as we know you wouldnt refuse it.

I think its great they are being rewarded and offered so mch not to run off to the competition. Its not like its goin to affect their $80bn cash stock pile or stock price a great deal - and yes i hold stock!
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

SeaFox said:
Thank God for the 1% who create products and jobs for the rest of us.
That's the thing, though. They are aren't the ones creating the products or the jobs. The coders and engineers and factory workers are. Yeah, Jony Ive certainly takes a personal hand in hardware design, just like Steve Jobs personally dabbled in this and that section of Apple. But it's not those seven people who necessitate the jobs of all those other rank and file employees. You have it backwards. It's all those "little people" that give the CxO's a job. The reason these high rank positions are required is because Apple as an organization is that large. Do small businesses have a president and vice president of every section of their operations? No. Do they need a layer of "regional manager" administration above their local administration? No. All that extra management (and the overhead it adds to payroll) are not necessary in smaller operations. Apple wouldn't be a company large enough to require these new positions were it not hugely successful. And it's hugely successful because of the products those "regular employees" make that people want.

Many companies seem to have these extra layers of management and positions, whether they truly need them is debatable. But I can tell you that all it looks like to "the rest of us" is a bunch of guys in suits who have set themselves up to skim their living expenses from the top of the revenue heap that the rest of us earned the company.


Those who are complaining the loudest are probably those who are too lazy to work hard or too spoiled to appreciate what they have. I work hard and make little but I get a lot of satisfaction from my efforts and know I earned them...they weren't handed out to me.
No, it's those of us who work hard 40+ hours a week and aren't given even a cost of living raise for three years in a row. Oh, and then our employer cuts our health benefits, too. All the while handing out raises to people who could stop working for an entire year and live off their savings account with no change in lifestyle.

Run your own company some day and have hundreds or thousands of people for you. You need to gain some perspective.
 
Only the top Execs?

I thought Apple was different. How about the other 99 percent?
 
Steve left plans for the company for the next 4/5 years at least including products. This is part of those plans...

Get over yourself saying no one should have that reward being give. If you were in their shoes, I'd go as far and call you hypocrites as we know you wouldnt refuse it.

I think its great they are being rewarded and offered so mch not to run off to the competition. Its not like its goin to affect their $80bn cash stock pile or stock price a great deal - and yes i hold stock!

Would i want to own everything in the world - Yes. Do i think anyone should be able to own everything in the world - No. No hypocrisy involved. None at all, actually.
 
Because we live in a society. If we were all rich and successful like these guys who'd be around to do the grunt work?

Really? I'm not at all against grunt work, but your wording of "rich" and "successful" implies that grunt workers are second class citizens. Are these executives any better than the janitor? Their income says they are, and that's the problem.
 
They are worried, and rightly so, of others jumping in the transition post-Jobs.

Perhaps part of it is PTSD, and part is the vacuum left from Jobs' management style.

Apple will be a different place for sure, which is good and bad... I can only imagine.
 
Really? I'm not at all against grunt work, but your wording of "rich" and "successful" implies that grunt workers are second class citizens. Are these executives any better than the janitor? Their income says they are, and that's the problem.

The executives ARE more valuable to the company, yes. Most definitely. That's what their income says. It doesn't say anything about their status as human beings. But as far as the company is concerned, they are much, much, MUCH more important. They are the first-class citizens in the "world" of the company
 
Would i want to own everything in the world - Yes. Do i think anyone should be able to own everything in the world - No. No hypocrisy involved. None at all, actually.

It's like that Joe Walsh song: 'everybody's so different. I haven't changed'.

I wonder what it would be like to have enough money to be able to not say no to any whim or idea... I'll likely never be in that position but I wonder how it will change me.

You hear about these people that work in Wall Street making hundreds of millions of dollars having a 'hard time' thinking of living with a pay cut. People can get addicted to the lifestyle. What do you do when Starbucks is like McDonald's and a beemer is 'just a car'...

On a tangent: Part of the mystic of Jobs was that his riches didn't change him. I wonder how much of that is true. Like I heard that a few years ago he bought a house and a lot next door and paid for the existing house to be moved so that he could build his new hi-tech wonder. It seemed excessive, and all the pictures of his house are of some sprawling mcmansion in Sunnyvale somewhere and there has been no mention of this new house. There was a story here in Mac Rumors on it. What happened to it... Did it get built? Will it get built I wonder...

But anyway, life goes on...
 
Lol, these posts are hilarious. All the whining and bitching. But you know whats gonna happen at the end of the day? ALL of you sheeple will RUN back to apple stores, cash in hand, begging to buy the latest gadget.

If you really gave a **** about this, how about you speak with your wallet? Dump that AAPL stock you absolutely love to gush about, stop buying iphones, ipads, imacs.... But we all know that isnt going to happen. You'll continue to pour your money into the apple coffers, and then proceed to bitch when they do whatever the hell they want to with it
 
Last edited:
The executives ARE more valuable to the company, yes. Most definitely. That's what their income says. It doesn't say anything about their status as human beings. But as far as the company is concerned, they are much, much, MUCH more important. They are the first-class citizens in the "world" of the company

Then the company is wrong. The status of human beings should always be considered. And never underestimate the value of a janitor. The company hierarchy is a human construct, a false sense of power and importance established by those in power.
 
As an Apple employee it kinda makes me sick to my stomach when executives are given these rewards....and us employees get nothing more than the usual 3 - 5%.....Sick Sick Sick.

So find another job. Am sure there are lots of people who would love to work for Apple.

And if you're getting a three to five percent annual salary increase, be thankful for that because in the current economy, that's certainly not the norm.
 
Lol, these posts are hilarious. All the whining and bitching. But you know whats gonna happen at the end of the day? ALL of you sheeple will RUN back to apple stores, cash in hand, begging to buy the latest gadget.

If you really gave a **** about this, how about you speak with your wallet? Dumb that AAPL stock you absolutely love to gush about, stop buying iphones, ipads, imacs.... But we all know that isnt going to happen. You'll continue to pour your money into the apple coffers, and then proceed to bitch when they do whatever the hell they want to with it

Not at all. For the most part, I could care less about Apple stock. I buy Apple products because I like them. I'll jump ship in a heartbeat if a better product comes along.

What concerns me is not Apple per se, but the economic divide. I picture in my mind the ending to Animal Farm - the pigs sitting in the house with a plethora of food and drink.
 
So find another job. Am sure there are lots of people who would love to work for Apple.

And if you're getting a three to five percent annual salary increase, be thankful for that because in the current economy, that's certainly not the norm.

Agreed. At my prior workplace, they haven't had a raise for 3 years! And this isn't even a raise! If they screw up, then they are in place to LOSE millions in potential FUTURE income. People act as if somehow everyone should just sit around and make a flat income because it's the "human" thing to do, but then there would be ZERO incentive for Apple to crank out another $100b quarter.
 
No, it's those of us who work hard 40+ hours a week and aren't given even a cost of living raise for three years in a row. Oh, and then our employer cuts our health benefits, too. All the while handing out raises to people who could stop working for an entire year and live off their savings account with no change in lifestyle.

Unfortunately, this is the norm. The average worker is losing ground with no cost of living increases and paying a greater percentage for benefit costs. People should not be surprised of things like the Wall Street protests. It's only going to get worse as we push more and more people under the poverty line.

I live in America and we always like to think of ourselves as the greatest nation on earth yet we have a significant percentage of children going hungry each day. How do we reconcile that while calling ourselves the greatest nation? These bonuses like it or not are part of the root cause for an increasingly growing resentment at the obscene inequities between the classes. We could be in for some very violent times as more and more people cross that threshold of desperation and can't make ends meet.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.