Apple Begins Promoting 'Live Tune-In' Feature on New Apple TV Splash Screen

[69Mustang]

Even with the corrected post you are still mostly incorrect.

You are correct that watching local channels from an antenna is free.

The satellite/cable provider passes through the cost that the local channel CHARGES the provider. That is where you are incorrect.

If you owned a channel, local or national, you would charge ANYONE who wants to rebroadcast your signal a rights fee. It is called retransmission fees.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retransmission_consent

The entire point of the post was to point out CBS doesn't charge the end user*, as posited by the post I replied to.
Retransmission fees have nothing to do with end user. End users don't rebroadcast signals. Not sure why you keep going down that road. The

*Where I was wrong, at least partially, was my thought that CBS doesn't charge the end user for All Access. Apparently, that's not the case in every market.

 

[Hookemfins]

The entire point of the post was to point out CBS doesn't charge the end user*, as posited by the post I replied to.
Retransmission fees have nothing to do with end user. End users don't rebroadcast signals. Not sure why you keep going down that road. The

You are right CBS doesn't charge the end user. The local CBS affiliate charges the TV provider (Directv, ComCrap, Dish, Time Warner, uverse..etc) the retransmission fee. That is the point you are not grasping. The end user is the recipient of the charges made by the local CBS affiliate who charges the TV provider.

Now I have Directv. I pay for my local channels. CBS is the only one that requires a monthly fee to watch on ATV which is wrong since I already pay for the retransmission the local affiliate charges. NBS, FOX and ABC doesn't charge for access through the internet or ATV or any other device so long as you a TV provider subscription.

 

[daveplotty]

Just another feature we won't ever get to see in the UK!

 

[69Mustang]

You are right CBS doesn't charge the end user. The local CBS affiliate charges the TV provider (Directv, ComCrap, Dish, Time Warner, uverse..etc) the retransmission fee. That is the point you are not grasping. The end user is the recipient of the charges made by the local CBS affiliate who charges the TV provider.

Now I have Directv. I pay for my local channels. CBS is the only one that requires a monthly fee to watch on ATV which is wrong since I already pay for the retransmission the local affiliate charges. NBS, FOX and ABC doesn't charge for access through the internet or ATV or any other device so long as you a TV provider subscription.

It's not a lack of grasp. It's a lack of relevancy. You entered a conversation about CBS charging the end user. I said they didn't. You agreed they don't. We both agree the end user is charged for service by their provider. Ancillary points about what is encompassed in the cable/satellite bill (retransmission fees and such) aren't germaine to the topic I was discussing. Let's call it a day and say you won. I'm okay with that.

 

[ARK]

What I would want is a really slick interface to OTA: https://www.tablotv.com

Check out the HDHomeRun device and Channels app.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-to-watch-live-tv-on-the-apple-tv.1939898/

 

[2010mini]

100% False. Local channels charge the TV Providers a rights fee to carry their channels. The same goes for all of the popular channels. They charge the providers on a per subscriber basis. ESPN gets $6/sub, just for ESPN alone. The other ESPN2 and the other also charge on a per subscriber basis although far less than ESPN. IF ESPN went with a stand alone package it would range from $25-35/per person from the numbers I am hearing.

It is the carriage fees charged by the individual channels that drive the prices up and if you go al la carte it'll be even higher.

This. Someone who understands the messy, convoluted headache that is the broadcasting industry.

If you want TRUE a la carte: open iTunes and buy just the content you want to watch. For sports: buy seasons of the league you watch (if they offer it)

Everything else is a bundle. YES even Netflix is a bundle.

 

[RoboCop001]

I really don't like the idea of channels. I just want to watch shows. And usually it's just one show per channel, so it's not even worth buying the channel. Which is why I just buy individual shows on iTunes. Way cheaper for me, anyway.

 

[DipDog3]

Broadcast TV channels should be offered at like 0.99 a month, no one wants to pay $10/month for something you can get for free.

 

[Hookemfins]

Ancillary points about what is encompassed in the cable/satellite bill (retransmission fees and such) aren't germaine to the topic I was discussing. Let's call it a day and say you won. I'm okay with that.

It is the ancillary points that are the most important to the discussion. Not for CBS charging for the app but for who is recycle the TV provider bills is important and that is the local affiliates.

A lot of the posters on here do not grundy how the industry works and I have to accept that.

I'm off to watch baseball and done with the discussion.

Enjoy.

 

[rdlink]

Nice features and all. And nothing against Apple, but most of the watching apps like ESPN, CBS, etc. are pretty worthless, because what's the point of having them when I don't have cable or satellite, and thus can't watch them?

 

[bushido]

What is wrong with Apple's UI design team? That screen is so ugly! Way too unbalanced, poor font size, poor contrast, ugly shadows... just all looks so wrong! But I guess I should get used to it, since Apple lost their way on UI design a few years ago when they moved towards HTML for the iTunes Store and the App Stores.

Google unfortunately knows how to make a flat UI. Apple on the other hand ... not one bit

 

[laurim]

What is wrong with Apple's UI design team? That screen is so ugly! Way too unbalanced, poor font size, poor contrast, ugly shadows... just all looks so wrong! But I guess I should get used to it, since Apple lost their way on UI design a few years ago when they moved towards HTML for the iTunes Store and the App Stores.

Redesign it and show me something better because I don't see what you see. It's a temporary informational screen so it doesn't need to be super fancy, just clean and readable and I can read it just fine. The only critique I can find is the orphaned "live" word but that's what happens when the text is driven by xml or html.

 

[Defthand]

When cord-cutting and on-demand streaming emerged, I imagined the end of scheduled broadcasting. Aside from sports events and news, I see no point in live broadcasts and scheduled programs. It is antiquated and inconvenient.

That said, until scheduled broadcasting is finally pronounced dead by Millennials, live programming will need a faster method to access. Clicking in and out of apps, and within their memus, to browse live broadcasts will frustrate Apple TV users. Reportedly, Sling TV's service was spotted temporarily on Apple TV. An old school model like it will suffer if users have to wait for channels to buffer/cache while surfing.

 

[Juicy Box]

When cord-cutting and on-demand streaming emerged, I imagined the end of scheduled broadcasting. Aside from sports events and news, I see no point in live broadcasts and scheduled programs. It is antiquated and inconvenient.

That said, until scheduled broadcasting is finally pronounced dead by Millennials, live programming will need a faster method to access. Clicking in and out of apps, and within their memus, to browse live broadcasts will frustrate Apple TV users. Reportedly, Sling TV's service was spotted temporarily on Apple TV. An old school model like it will suffer if users have to wait for channels to buffer/cache while surfing.

I think the sling on the ATV rumor was a hoax.

 

[appledefenceforce]

Not going to have a device connected to my TV that locks me into one walled garden. I want competition and I want direct access to the media outlets I value. So make it work on a general computer or I'll continue with antenna TV.

I'm sure your grievance will be noticed by Apple.

 

[shandyman]

Couldn't care less. Not could. Could caring implies you care a bit, which I don't think is what you meant

What I want is for the Apple TV to actually be of some use in the UK - with more than just the BBC being on it. Until then - not interested.

Nice to see some changes are happening, though...

There some apps that let you watch live tv in the UK, basically the freeview ones. I use them often. Though Channel 4 and ITV need to get their bums in gear.

Sky Q sounds promising, one main box, then you can use the iOS app on iPhones or iPads or tvOS app on an Apple TV to watch, starting on one and carrying on another. Plus the Sky Q boxes support AirPlay.

I'm with you on the UK/Apple TV thing but I think the pressure should be on the content providers rather than Apple here. It drives me mad that ITV, C4 & 5 all have iOS apps but seemingly can't see value/be bothered to port them to ATV

Channel 4 have said they won't bother as the All4 app can AirPlay. Despite the new update breaking that.....

Have you tried TVPlayer?

Disclaimer, I'm a developer at TVPlayer.

Your app is one of the ones I use. It's brill.

 

[macduke]

Another solution is to change your hobbies and not watch any more TV or sports.

My hobbies turned into my career: design, photography and programming. But to suggest that just because someone watches TV and sports means that they don't have hobbies is extremely short-sighted. I enjoy painting (including paid commissions), meteorology and storm chasing, astronomy, cooking as well as grilling and smoking, landscaping/light construction, doing freelance design work and assisting my wife with her business. When we need to sit and rest for a bit, we watch TV and sports. Deal with it.

 

[Precision Gem]

I guess this is a nice addition, but I probably will never use it. Watching live TV is almost as painful as listening to FM radio with all the ads.

It would be nice if Apple would fix all the bugs on TvOS. Between the bugs, lack of good apps(where is Amazon?), and the subpar apps available for the ATV4, I was thinking of going back to my ATV3.

What advantage do you see of the ATV3 over the ATV4 that would inspire you to go back?

 

[panther quest]

Super handy how there's no link to the page in the article.

 

[shandyman]

Super handy how there's no link to the page in the article.

It's a screen on the Apple TV, not the Apple website, so how are they meant to link to it?

 

[Juicy Box]

What advantage do you see of the ATV3 over the ATV4 that would inspire you to go back?

A few were mentioned already in this thread, but I will list some things. A lot of the things maybe subjective, and based off of my experience, while others are well documented issues with the ATV4.

1.
The ATV3 doesn't have the bugs that the ATV4 has. With every tvOS update it seems like for every one bug fixed, two more replace it. I restart my ATV4 almost everyday, something I rarely ever had to do with the ATV3.

Some of these bugs maybe app related, but the ATV3 version of these apps do not have these bugs.

2.
The Apps are much better on the ATV3. The App store is probably the biggest selling point of the ATV4, but so far, there hasn't been any must-have apps available from the ATV4, that are not available on the ATV3. At least for me, the apps my family uses most on the ATV4, and already installed on the ATV3.

The UI on these apps are much better designed. Trying to browse stuff to watch on Netflix on the new ATV4 is a PITA. The ATV3 version is much easier to navigate and use.

I think the ATV4 versions look nicer at first, until you try to use them.

3.
The remote. Using the remote has not been a great experience. Accidentally hitting the wrong button, holding it the wrong way, and the (sometimes) long wait for it to pair, makes using the remote a pain.

I prefer to use IR remotes, but the programmed IR buttons are inconsistent between apps, and limited when you need to force close an app when it stops working properly. Which having to force close an app is an everyday occurrence especially with the YouTube app.

Also, trying to play most games with the Apple remote is frustrating. I downloaded some games that I already own and played thinking they would be fun, but the remote made them almost impossible to play. DuckTails is one example.

4.
Lack of good apps. I would probably keep the ATV4 on my main TV if there were some decent apps that I liked. I was hoping for Amazon, which was rumored to be released last December and that never happened. The games are nerfed by the Apple remote requirement. All the best video apps on the ATV4 are also on the ATV3.

5.
Having a user friendly UI. The ATV3 UI is very simple and easy to use. My baby-boomer parents learned how to use it and are happy with it. The hardest part for them, was how to re-authenticate the cable subscription for channels like HBO.

I was planning on buying them an ATV4 for x-mas last year, but quickly changed my mind after using mine. I knew that if I would replace their ATV3, I would either get calls from them constantly asking how to do stuff, or they would get frustrated with it and never use the device.


There are other issues, I could go into more detail about the bugs, but I think I made my point.

 

[shandyman]

A few were mentioned already in this thread, but I will list some things. A lot of the things maybe subjective, and based off of my experience, while others are well documented issues with the ATV4.

1.
The ATV3 doesn't have the bugs that the ATV4 has. With every tvOS update it seems like for every one bug fixed, two more replace it. I restart my ATV4 almost everyday, something I rarely ever had to do with the ATV3.

Some of these bugs maybe app related, but the ATV3 version of these apps do not have these bugs.

2.
The Apps are much better on the ATV3. The App store is probably the biggest selling point of the ATV4, but so far, there hasn't been any must-have apps available from the ATV4, that are not available on the ATV3. At least for me, the apps my family uses most on the ATV4, and already installed on the ATV3.

The UI on these apps are much better designed. Trying to browse stuff to watch on Netflix on the new ATV4 is a PITA. The ATV3 version is much easier to navigate and use.

I think the ATV4 versions look nicer at first, until you try to use them.

3.
The remote. Using the remote has not been a great experience. Accidentally hitting the wrong button, holding it the wrong way, and the (sometimes) long wait for it to pair, makes using the remote a pain.

I prefer to use IR remotes, but the programmed IR buttons are inconsistent between apps, and limited when you need to force close an app when it stops working properly. Which having to force close an app is an everyday occurrence especially with the YouTube app.

Also, trying to play most games with the Apple remote is frustrating. I downloaded some games that I already own and played thinking they would be fun, but the remote made them almost impossible to play. DuckTails is one example.

4.
Lack of good apps. I would probably keep the ATV4 on my main TV if there were some decent apps that I liked. I was hoping for Amazon, which was rumored to be released last December and that never happened. The games are nerfed by the Apple remote requirement. All the best video apps on the ATV4 are also on the ATV3.

5.
Having a user friendly UI. The ATV3 UI is very simple and easy to use. My baby-boomer parents learned how to use it and are happy with it. The hardest part for them, was how to re-authenticate the cable subscription for channels like HBO.

I was planning on buying them an ATV4 for x-mas last year, but quickly changed my mind after using mine. I knew that if I would replace their ATV3, I would either get calls from them constantly asking how to do stuff, or they would get frustrated with it and never use the device.


There are other issues, I could go into more detail about the bugs, but I think I made my point.

1. I've never had to reset my Apple TV 4 and I've had it since day 1.

2. VLC, Plex, BBC iPlayer and TVPlayer (Streams live TV for all freeview channels) all on Apple TV 4 and not on Apple TV 3.

3. Long wait to pair?! Mines always instantly working

4. Surely pretty much the same point as point 2? As for Amazon, they were supposed to be releasing it Q1, though that's Amazon being dicks as usual.

5. The UI is pretty much the same as the Apple TV 3, apart from its white background, not black. The re-authenticating for cable you talk about is on the cable providers, feedback to them. My 60 year old parents had no issues when I upgraded them from ATV2 to ATV4 as its pretty much a similar UI.


Sounds like maybe you have a duff Apple TV 4, from some of the problems you listed.

 

[Juicy Box]

1. I've never had to reset my Apple TV 4 and I've had it since day 1.

2. VLC, Plex, BBC iPlayer and TVPlayer (Streams live TV for all freeview channels) all on Apple TV 4 and not on Apple TV 3.

3. Long wait to pair?! Mines always instantly working

4. Surely pretty much the same point as point 2? As for Amazon, they were supposed to be releasing it Q1, though that's Amazon being dicks as usual.

5. The UI is pretty much the same as the Apple TV 3, apart from its white background, not black. The re-authenticating for cable you talk about is on the cable providers, feedback to them. My 60 year old parents had no issues when I upgraded them from ATV2 to ATV4 as its pretty much a similar UI.


Sounds like maybe you have a duff Apple TV 4, from some of the problems you listed.

So the ATV4 working great for you? That is wonderful. I am happy for you and the many others that enjoy the ATV4. As for me and many others, the issues are not imaginary. Maybe it is a hardware issue, and maybe I might check it out with Apple. Also, maybe the things you do on your ATV4, is different than the things I do, and you do experience the same things.

There are a lot of threads on the Apple support forum with issues similar to mine.

Bugs aside, the other issues, like available apps, UI, ease of use, those are very subjective things. I was responding to the post asking my opinion about why switching to ATV3 from the ATV4.

A couple posts ago, someone else mentioned returning their ATV4 and switching back to their ATV3, so clearly I am not alone here.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

Have you tried TVPlayer?

Disclaimer, I'm a developer at TVPlayer.

Any chance of it coming out for the Apple TV?

 

[shandyman]

So the ATV4 working great for you? That is wonderful. I am happy for you and the many others that enjoy the ATV4. As for me and many others, the issues are not imaginary. Maybe it is a hardware issue, and maybe I might check it out with Apple. Also, maybe the things you do on your ATV4, is different than the things I do, and you do experience the same things.

There are a lot of threads on the Apple support forum with issues similar to mine.

Bugs aside, the other issues, like available apps, UI, ease of use, those are very subjective things. I was responding to the post asking my opinion about why switching to ATV3 from the ATV4.

A couple posts ago, someone else mentioned returning their ATV4 and switching back to their ATV3, so clearly I am not alone here.

Where did I say it was imaginary? Show me, I'll wait..... That's why I said maybe you had a duff one. If you've not troubleshooted properly or taken it to Apple then you've no real basis to complain. The amount of people that I see complain then when asked if they've actually tried troubleshooting or taking it to an Apple Store, it's like they just want to moan for the joy of it.

Also, as I said, the UI is basically the same as the ATV3, just inverted colour wise, which you skipped over. I also shared my experience with older relatives getting the new ATV4. Just to share a fair balanced view to your projected nightmare with older relatives.

You made points, I made a counterpoints. Welcome to online forums