Apple Being Sued for 'Purposefully Slowing Down Older iPhone Models' [Updated]

[Atomic Walrus]

The only resolution necessary is for Apple to officially consider batteries which result in crashing (now, slowdowns) as in need of replacement.

The problem is that these same batteries are checking out as "good" on Apple's battery diagnostics, which means you can't get them replaced by Apple.

There is no problem with Apple's solution to the crashing issue, nor is it Apple's fault that batteries wear out and can no longer supply their rated voltage (just the nature of battery tech). They just need to make their warranty battery coverage match this situation.

 

[macdave91]

So... you aren’t interested in software updates that add new features? How about security updates that make iPhones a leader by a huge margin in security, not interested in that either? Your statement is insane. When you buy from Apple you aren’t just buying the hardware. You are paying a premium for their software above anything else.

Not interested one bit. I’ll go back to doing banking and email on my laptop and leave my phone for calls and texts. I’d rather have a device that operates the way it was advertised for the life of the device (minimally 2 years).

 

[DNichter]

I never said this. I think you are confused about the difference between capacity retention and impedance growth.



We all know this. This is what this thread is about. I think it was a good move on their part. They should just have been more transparent.

Also, they need to hire some better battery cell design engineers because they clearly fudged up on the iphone 6s and 7.

I'm willing to bet the iPhone 8 cells have a smaller capacity than the 7 (1.821Ah v. 1.96) partly because it is designed to operate at higher current densities; which would decrease the volumetric energy density. I would be curious to see dimensions on the two cells.

Yea, I have no idea what that is. I agree though, some transparency would have been better for everyone.

 

[ivan86]

Well, I clearly noticed how updates on iPhone 7 Plus install much longer than they have used to (with iOS 11.2, which apparently brought the new "slow down" feature to it as well). Moreover, I was always able to start the updates, turn off the screen, and come back in 5 minutes to get fully updated phone (50-90 apps or so).

Yesterday I've done the same drill with iPhone 7 Plus (reserve phone) and to my surprise updates did not install completely... twice. First I came in like 10 minutes just to see that 20 or so apps still are not updated, than I gave it another try... and once I returned around 10 apps were still "updating". When the screen was on it finished updates pretty quickly.

All this was happening on Wi-Fi with the phone fully charged. It was never like that before. In fact this behaviour previously I only experienced on Android phones.

There is no reason whatsoever to include such algorithm on the Phone which is hardly a year old. I am sure my 7 Plus had only 70 charge cycles at most while at it and its battery is still in great shape.

I am glad that Apple got sued over this. The more attention this gets - the better end result for all users will be at the end. I am sure most would rather have an option to choose how their phone runs if the battery is getting worse as well as prefer to see the notice if the battery rather be changed overall.

 

[squirrellydw]

Apple has no clue how to do thermal design. This problem arose because of overheating in Apple notebooks. Once they created the throttling software they use it for everything, CPU, battery, etc. It became cheaper for Apple to continue to use it rather than doing the proper thermal or battery design. Couple that with Ive's personal, out of control, need for thin and sleek and you have Apple today. Every single one of Apple devices throttles and every single one of Apple's devices are nothing more than overpriced toys.

So get over it. Relevant to todays technology you cannot buy performant long lasting devices from Apple. Apple devices may meet your need, but you have to replace them every couple of years if you want to continue to use them.

Interesting since I have a 2010 MacBook Pro, 2012 Macbook Air and they both run just as good as the day I bought them. Only thing I've done was replace the battery and upgrade to SSD on the MacBook Pro. You have NO clue what you are talking about.

 

[macdave91]

The story behind "throttlegate" is basically consumer greed. I'd like some cheese (money) to go with my whine. Whenever consumers smell some free money on the horizon, they sure can kick up a lot of unnecessary sand. By the time the lawyers get their cut of the settlement, the plaintiffs will get about $10 apiece and very little satisfaction. It's seems somewhat odd that this battery depletion problem has gained such huge momentum. Samsung and Alphabet must be paying some people an awful lot of money to go after Apple. I know iPhone X is severely butt-hurting the Android community but this type of retaliation is just going to waste a lot of court time and very little compensation will be gained from it.

Please tell me where you bought all the koolaid in bulk? I could sure use some. I don’t understand how people don’t side with consumers. This can turn out just as it did with the iPhone 4 antenna issue and Apple will hopefully offer battery replacements at no cost for those phones affected before Apple made the statement.

 

[xflashx]

It is a battery design issue for sure. But it's not weird that this is an issue that Apple faces and Android doesn't right now. Let me explain:

Consider a case where an iPhone processor has a peak current draw of X amps and the equivalent android phone processor also has a current draw of X amps.

Now we know that the iPhone cell is usually a smaller capacity than the equivalent android phone; lets consider the iPhone cell to be 1.5Ah and the android to be 3.0Ah.

It's fair to assume that both cells in the android phone and iPhone have similar designs inside. Most cells that I open in mobile electronics are coated around ~3mAh/cm2. From this value you can calculate the area of the electrodes from our capacities above [500 and 1,000 cm2 for the iPhone and Android respectively].

Now when that processor hits it's peak load of X amps, it will be distributed over twice the area in the android cell.
*X/1000 A/cm2 for the Android
*X/500 A/cm2 for the iPhone

The higher the current density, the more likely you are to have damaging processes like lithium plating and local heating.

So how do you correct this with cell design?

Apple could stick with the smaller capacity, but instead of coating their electrodes at 3mAh/cm2, they could coat at 1.5. This means the electrode area to produce 1.5Ah would double and make it equivalent to that of the android cell. However, you need to consider that doing this requires more of the current collector that you coat these electrodes on. That current collector takes up extra volume inside the cell. So ultimately, the cell's volumetric energy density will decrease with this change.

I am suggesting that the iphone cells were not properly designed for the current of the processors there were being paired with; especially as the cell ages and impedance raises. I don't think it's a coincidence that this became a larger issue with the iPhone 6S because this is when the processing power really started to take off.

I believe the issue is further exasperated by Apple having poor control over their cell manufacturers. They need to use so many because of the volume they require that they have a large variance in how the cell's impedance growth changes with time. This industry has many trade secrets so communication between cell manufacturer and the customers is notoriously poor.
Samsung likely has better control because they have Samsung SDI producing cells.

While I can understand better now, thank you btw, I think it's still Apples responsibility to ensure that throttling doesn't happen at all. Or advertise otherwise before one buys an iPhone.

 

[WinterWolf90]

This will affect their reputation. It's all over the news and could potentially prevent further purchases from some people.

 

[macdave91]

Interesting since I have a 2010 MacBook Pro, 2012 Macbook Air and they both run just as good as the day I bought them. Only thing I've done was replace the battery and upgrade to SSD on the MacBook Pro. You have NO clue what you are talking about.

Guess that makes both of you

 

[TrentS]

What competent law firm would take on these knucklehead clients? They should get laughed out of court.

 

[barfo]

So, is my iP6s+ considered “old”? Crap man, I still have 6 months left till I pay it off and I’ve had it for 2 years; they should replace the battery for free!

 

[albebaubles]

Did you bother to read the EULA? I am guessing no, given the

That is true.

That must mean no.

 

[Constable Odo]

Oh, they understand what Apple said. Just fishing for some easy cash.

Get a list of everyone that joins the class, and send them an update to remove the throttling. They'll be back.

Apparently, Alphabet and Samsung are unhappy that Apple might reach a $1T market cap this year so they paid off a bunch of ringers to file a class-action lawsuit against Apple while hoping that the negative news will keep investors away from Apple. The iPhone X is really killing Android this quarter and those Android factions want some revenge. This is the only way they can do it.

 

[macdave91]

so you rather have your iPhone restart 10x a day? Awesome.

Also, if you don't want your iPhone to slow down, pay the $70 for a new battery install.... its like saying... "I drove my car 100K miles and now my transmission just stopped working. PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE!! They just want me to buy a new car. Instead, my car should last forever."

Except it’s nt at all because there is a maintenance schedule that clearly tells you the work that needs to get done at every key mileage. Silly boy.

 

[latweek]

As usual, any Apple decision is infallible, and the Frogbois are angry we told them they are being boiled. How predictable.



Well.....at least now we know why they were in such a tizzy to scuttle any references to battery life as "time" remaining to "percentage" on MacOS as well.

 

[dnsp]

Oh, it shuts down, the shock, the terror!! Duh, if the battery is depleted it will shut down, newsflash! It's the best way to tell users that the battery needs to be replaced, isn't it?
Throttling the CPU up to 60% to a point where the UI lags unbearably?? WTH? And there's even some people that think this is ok... I really hope they lose this one on court and costs them billions.

 

[OllyW]

When cells go bad, you will get that sudden jump from 60 to 30%, for example. But that is not what Apple is addressing.

My iPhone 6 used to do exactly that, jump from 40-50% to 0% then shut down until it got 'fixed' by an iOS update.

I think the battery in a phone should last at least two years without having to throttle the CPU and if that means making the battery bigger and the phone a bit thicker, that's what should be done. I'm not impressed by Apple's lack of transparency when the CPU throttling was introduced and if it's such a brilliant solution why weren't their customers told about it?

 

[Rellek]

About time. What they are doing is highly unethical. Their involvement with my property stops after payment.

For sure! From the moment I walk out of that store I don't want any software updates fixing security issues or adding additional features. It is MY property and I will code that stuff myself. When my Li-ion battery inevitably begins to fail, as they do, I will replace it myself. Forcing me to install an update that extends the life of my phone is bananas.

Kappa.

 

[lwells1441]

While I can understand better now, thank you btw, I think it's still Apples responsibility to ensure that throttling doesn't happen at all. Or advertise otherwise before one buys an iPhone.

I understand that perspective. And I largely agree.

However, I view the throttling as doing two different things:
1.) Rectifying the sudden shut down issues with defective cells
2.) Allowing phones with older aged batteries to last for more hours through the day

For issue item 1, you and I are in complete agreement. There was clearly a problem here and Apple should address it directly, not with throttling.

For issue item 2, I like the idea of throttling. If the decreased speed doesn't bother me, why not??!?! It's actually saving me money if I can delay the battery swap and am not negatively impacted by the throttle.

 

[Constable Odo]

So, is my iP6s+ considered “old”? Crap man, I still have 6 months left till I pay it off and I’ve had it for 2 years; they should replace the battery for free!

Sorry, but two years is long enough to keep an iPhone. Time to upgrade to a newer iPhone. I recommend the iPhone X with 256GB. It's quite a bargain for $1,150 and fast as all get-out. Get with the notch. Tim Cook gives you his best regards for being a loyal customer.

 

[macdave91]

Apparently, Alphabet and Samsung are unhappy that Apple might reach a $1T market cap this year so they paid off a bunch of ringers to file a class-action lawsuit against Apple while hoping that the negative news will keep investors away from Apple. The iPhone X is really killing Android this quarter and those Android factions want some revenge. This is the only way they can do it.

Do you really think that? Silly boy.

 

[tkukoc]

Oh, it shuts down, the shock, the terror!! Duh, if the battery is depleted it will shut down, newsflash! It's the best way to tell users that the battery needs to be replaced, isn't it?
Throttling the CPU up to 60% to a point where the UI lags unbearably?? WTH? And there's even some people that think this is ok... I really hope they lose this one on court and costs them billions.

It won't cost them billions, people are looking at the data completely wrong. But that is what most people do. Jump to massive conclusions with zero shreds of credible information.

 

[Glideslope]

Apple releases a pop up informing you that your phone is being throttled.

Problem solved.

Nope. Too late for that. The deception has already been established. Apple's admission will be precedent.

 

[femike]

The issue is not about the battery degrading. Everyone knows the battery degrades depending how its treated.

The issue is that Apple did not disclose or offer an explanation of if, when, why and how its reducing performance with respect to the battery, and even reducing performance when the battery is still healthy. The user has not got a clue of why their expensive phone is slowing down. Because the users are kept in the dark, this does encourage users to buy a replacement, this is a known fact. Apple also knows this fact and it cannot be denied.

So the question is:
Did Apple knowingly, and to what extent, keep this secret (until forced to do so) and throttle phones prematurely in order to encourage users to upgrade?
Regardless of it being Apple, the answer is influenced on whether you believe and trust a public company (whose obligation is to its institutional shareholders and creditors).

 

[macdave91]

In my opinion, any of you complaining about Apple (re: your older phones) have no case. Once you agreed to the terms and conditions and installed the software, you gave up your right to complain about future actions like this.

Read the iOS 10 agreement.

Apple made a choice when designing their phone to have the total power draw exceed the battery’s ability to provide that power once the battery degrades 20%. They used an iOS update to deliver this “feature” yet never advertised exactly what this feature would do, so we haven’t give up any right to complain. Maybe we have to arbitrate and maybe can’t sue using the courts, but we absolutely have a right to a legal remedy, and I hope this turns out in consumers’ favor.

 

[RogueWarrior65]

Here's what's going to happen: It will settle out of court. The lawyers will get a crapton of cash. The plaintiffs will get a discount coupon for an upgrade to a new phone.