Apple blew it - Xbox One first out

[SnowLeopard2008]

To watch netflix (which you already pay netflix to watch) on an Xbox you cant unless you also subscribe to xbox live as well.

SO on the PS3 you just log into Netflix and watch , xbox owners cant do that, they have to pay for xbox Live if the want to log into and use the netflix account they are already paying to use, Microsoft gets you to pay them to watch netflix, as well as you pay netflix to watch netflix... its a nice scam, MS get you to pay them to use an Xbox to connect to a service your already paying to connect to, its like your local supermarket charging you again for the food you just bought if you take it out of the bag you carried it home in.

Xbox owners also cant send messages unless they have a pay account, use facebook or twitter, or pretty much do anything with the console that requires a connection to the outside world (They got into a big fight with the BBC here in the UK because the BBC refused to give them an iPlayer app unless it sat outside xbox live and was accessible to anyone in the UK with or without a subscription to xbox live, it took several years before MS relented, and that was only because they were the only kid on the block without the iPlayer at that point)

The ****. Holy ****. Unbelievable. I thought Xbox Live was just so you can play multiplayer. As much of a tech geek that I am, I've only experienced game consoles for the first time in my life(except handhelds) with the PS3 when I bought it late last year.

Which makes me wonder, why does anyone like Xbox at all (360 or One)?!? You still have to pay Microsoft X dollars per month to use something that a) you already paid for (i.e. Netflix) and b) free on every other platform given a) is true. Seriously, does everyone who pays for this **** have a magical money tree that just didn't grow in only my backyard?!? I get the Xbox Live is a step up from PSN and whatever the heck Wii U's equivalent is called. And how it's got more features and whatnot. But at least give Netflix and other similar services for free without paying twice!!!

Damn, I am definitely not paying Microsoft every month for the next 8 years just so I can access my already paid Netflix subscription. **** that. I'll just get the significantly better piece of hardware (PS4) or keep using my awesome PS3. Thank god there are more than just 2 options in the I don't care what new and magical crap they added in the One. This is something so basic and fundamental which they managed to **** up so hard.

On another note, to OP: Yes, Apple really did blow it by not charging a monthly fee to access Netflix (which is already paided for) on the current ATV. Well done Apple... /sarcasm

 

[StinDaWg]

Also im guess MS will not allow for cheap DIY harddisk upgrades, and as 500GB isnt enough for me on my PS3 (Currently have a 1TB and its running less than 50gb free, no illegal stuff, but i do use it as a DVR with Play TV)

They've already said you can plug in any external USB hard drive to expand the storage. The internal is not replaceable.

 

[Nightarchaon]

They've already said you can plug in any external USB hard drive to expand the storage. The internal is not replaceable.

but is it "live" usable storage, or the same way the Xbox 360 allows you to copy data off its internal drive to a "backup", you cant plug the backup in and play a game off it, you have to clear space on your internal HDD and restore the game back. (PS3 has the same issue, but at least you can replace the stock PS3 HDD with a larger one)

I suspect it will be a drive you can backup too, but not that you can use as truly expanded storage.

 

[s15119]

the XBOX One blows the current ATV out of the water. .

They are such different gadgets One a big, expensive gaming machine and the other a tiny, inexpensive streaming device.

 

[StinDaWg]

but is it "live" usable storage, or the same way the Xbox 360 allows you to copy data off its internal drive to a "backup", you cant plug the backup in and play a game off it, you have to clear space on your internal HDD and restore the game back. (PS3 has the same issue, but at least you can replace the stock PS3 HDD with a larger one)

I suspect it will be a drive you can backup too, but not that you can use as truly expanded storage.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-hard-drive/

We had the opportunity to chat with Albert Penello, senior director of product planning at Microsoft this afternoon, who was kind enough to clarify a few topics for us regarding the recently-unveiled Xbox One. One thing we were quick to ask about was the integrated storage. 500GB sounds like a lot today -- but so did the 20GB unit in the original Xbox 360. The HDD there was, at least, replaceable. Can you do the same with its successor? Sadly, no. Hard drives in the Xbox One are non-user-serviceable, but Penello confirmed that the USB 3.0 port is there for external storage, which can be used for everything the internal storage can be used for. That includes game installs and downloads. So, don't fret: adding storage will be just as easy as ever.

 

[Nightarchaon]

The ****. Holy ****. Unbelievable. I thought Xbox Live was just so you can play multiplayer. As much of a tech geek that I am, I've only experienced game consoles for the first time in my life(except handhelds) with the PS3 when I bought it late last year.

Which makes me wonder, why does anyone like Xbox at all (360 or One)?!? You still have to pay Microsoft X dollars per month to use something that a) you already paid for (i.e. Netflix) and b) free on every other platform given a) is true. Seriously, does everyone who pays for this **** have a magical money tree that just didn't grow in only my backyard?!? I get the Xbox Live is a step up from PSN and whatever the heck Wii U's equivalent is called. And how it's got more features and whatnot. But at least give Netflix and other similar services for free without paying twice!!!

Damn, I am definitely not paying Microsoft every month for the next 8 years just so I can access my already paid Netflix subscription. **** that. I'll just get the significantly better piece of hardware (PS4) or keep using my awesome PS3. Thank god there are more than just 2 options in the I don't care what new and magical crap they added in the One. This is something so basic and fundamental which they managed to **** up so hard.

On another note, to OP: Yes, Apple really did blow it by not charging a monthly fee to access Netflix (which is already paided for) on the current ATV. Well done Apple... /sarcasm

This is what amazes me, the only reason i can think that the Xbox has been as big as it has been is that everyone in the USA bought one, and paid the live sub because they see it as "made in america" because its microsoft...despite it being made in china somewhere.

PS3 has been larger everywhere else in the world..

That paywall (and the upgrade to the UI from the original Blade style UI the 360 shipped with to the new advertising laden mess) is what had me drop my Xbox 360 (let my ex take it when she moved out) and kept the PS3, Only games i miss are Crackdown and Crackdown 2.

Oh and i subscribe to PSN, because its NOT a con, i get free games, every month , sometimes they are rubbish, sometimes odd, but always welcome for the money.

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http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-hard-drive/

Cool, maybe they learnt a lesson from sony this time around, Still wont be going near it, Xbox Live paywall = no purchase for me.. Ill stick with PSN and free games every month

But a non-user replaceable HDD is still a turn off, those things WILL fail and need replacing at some point, is MS going to lifetime warranty its Xbox ONES ?

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

This is what amazes me, the only reason i can think that the Xbox has been as big as it has been is that everyone in the USA bought one, and paid the live sub because they see it as "made in america" because its microsoft...despite it being made in china somewhere.

PS3 has been larger everywhere else in the world..

That paywall (and the upgrade to the UI from the original Blade style UI the 360 shipped with to the new advertising laden mess) is what had me drop my Xbox 360 (let my ex take it when she moved out) and kept the PS3, Only games i miss are Crackdown and Crackdown 2.

Oh and i subscribe to PSN, because its NOT a con, i get free games, every month , sometimes they are rubbish, sometimes odd, but always welcome for the money.

----------



Cool, maybe they learnt a lesson from sony this time around, Still wont be going near it, Xbox Live paywall = no purchase for me.. Ill stick with PSN and free games every month

But a non-user replaceable HDD is still a turn off, those things WILL fail and need replacing at some point, is MS going to lifetime warranty its Xbox ONES ?

Agreed. Only in the US is Xbox clearly dominant. Made in USA doesn't mean anything for me. Just like you shouldn't discriminate against Made in China (Apple's products are made there, including some of the silicon), you shouldn't discriminate towards Made in USA. There is a difference between true patriotism and being stupidly blind and ignorant. And the mere fact that it's made by Microsoft makes me double, triple and quadruple re-consider before actually handing over my money. Put the two together plus a non-blinded/ignorant mind, you will get an intelligent customer not a retard.

I just googled the "Blade style UI" and I must say, it looks like something that comes out of Microsoft. Ugly, dysfunctional, eye-bleeding, terrible and ghastly. PS3's UI is much nicer, cleaner, elegant and not something that makes my eyes bleed. It has aged much better than Xbox 360. And the One's UI is not much better. God the advertisements. The only Xbox UIs I've ever seen in my entire life are the One's and the current 360's UI.

 

[Nightarchaon]

I just googled the "Blade style UI" and I must say, it looks like something that comes out of Microsoft. Ugly, dysfunctional, eye-bleeding, terrible and ghastly. PS3's UI is much nicer, cleaner, elegant and not something that makes my eyes bleed. It has aged much better than Xbox 360. And the One's UI is not much better. God the advertisements. The only Xbox UIs I've ever seen in my entire life are the One's and the current 360's UI.

I am dreading the PS4 UI, Sony dropped the XMB (Xross media bar, which all its TVs, The PS3, PSP and blu ray players used so it was a seamless experience across all sony devices) from the vita in favour of these dreadful bubble icon things.

The Blade UI worked, was simple and wasn't COVERED in adverts that you had to drill down past to find the game or feature you actually wanted. How is this awful ?

Quite often when i did own a 360, after the UI upgrade, i found when they had full screen adverts running i couldn't read the text for menu items over them because the colour of the text matched the background, or the background was too busy.

I want a simple interface, that does its job in the cleanest, simple way possible (hence love the PS3s UI and hating microsofts) and of course now microsoft want me to wave and shout at my console (not going to happen, i wont use Siri, even in private, because i feel like a cock talking to my phone)

 

[E.Lizardo]

This is correct, Apple hasn't blown it, yet. I have said and will stand by my statement that the XBOX One blows the current ATV out of the water. Apple hasn't offered an updated ATV just yet so they haven't yet blown it. My guess though is that we won't see live TV on the ATV, but that is only a guess.

What if you already have a bluray player and don't want a game console?Does ATV still lose??

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To watch netflix (which you already pay netflix to watch) on an Xbox you cant unless you also subscribe to xbox live as well.

SO on the PS3 you just log into Netflix and watch , xbox owners cant do that, they have to pay for xbox Live if the want to log into and use the netflix account they are already paying to use, Microsoft gets you to pay them to watch netflix, as well as you pay netflix to watch netflix... its a nice scam, MS get you to pay them to use an Xbox to connect to a service your already paying to connect to, its like your local supermarket charging you again for the food you just bought if you take it out of the bag you carried it home in.

Xbox owners also cant send messages unless they have a pay account, use facebook or twitter, or pretty much do anything with the console that requires a connection to the outside world (They got into a big fight with the BBC here in the UK because the BBC refused to give them an iPlayer app unless it sat outside xbox live and was accessible to anyone in the UK with or without a subscription to xbox live, it took several years before MS relented, and that was only because they were the only kid on the block without the iPlayer at that point)

Wow I didn't know that.It's pretty outrageous.Makes the idea that XB one is going to kill Apple even sillier.
That and the facts that we don't have a price or a release date,and have no real info about Apple's alleged product.
I guess with no information you can make anyone you want the winner!Cool!

 

[spacepower7]

This is correct, Apple hasn't blown it, yet. I have said and will stand by my statement that the XBOX One blows the current ATV out of the water. Apple hasn't offered an updated ATV just yet so they haven't yet blown it. My guess though is that we won't see live TV on the ATV, but that is only a guess.

Let me get this straight?

A future, not currently shipping product, that you have never seen, touched, nor used, with unknown availability and price, is better than another product that has barely changed from 2010 and only cost $99.

Does all logic escape you?

 

[Michael CM1]

I own an Xbox 360. I have friends who own them. I haven't found one person who really has something positive to say about the Xbox One other than spec porn. WOO, it has an 8-core processor. It also has DRM that will charge you to lend a game to a friend.

What may be a dealbreaker for me is IT WON'T BE BACKWARD COMPATIBLE. Microsoft issued some utterly stupid statement about it being because the 360 used a Power PC architecture and the One uses x86.

Yes, the conversion from Power PC to x86 is somehow an insurmountable hurdle for Microsoft. It's as if none of them ever heard of Rosetta.

Once the darn thing actually comes out at $500 -- an Xbox 360 with a hard drive and Kinect costs $400, so do the math -- it will be bought by a few die-hards with too much cash to burn. Same thing with the PS4.

Meanwhile, all Apple has to do is open up the Apple TV to developers and release a couple more models with extra storage at half the price. Since the OS is based on iOS, you're going to have people porting their stuff for Apple TV so fast you won't believe it. No, you won't be able to share games. But when they only cost $10 or $20 compared to $60 or $70, you won't care.

What's ironic is how much Microsoft focused on the thing being a jack of all trades. DOES ANYBODY USE AN XBOX FOR SKYPE? If you buy a high-horsepower console, you want to play games. You want to play games over the Internet. If you want to watch movies or TV shows, you buy a BD player, Roku or Apple TV at $100.

 

[KentuckyKid220]

I own an Xbox 360. I have friends who own them. I haven't found one person who really has something positive to say about the Xbox One other than spec porn. WOO, it has an 8-core processor. It also has DRM that will charge you to lend a game to a friend.

What may be a dealbreaker for me is IT WON'T BE BACKWARD COMPATIBLE. Microsoft issued some utterly stupid statement about it being because the 360 used a Power PC architecture and the One uses x86.

Yes, the conversion from Power PC to x86 is somehow an insurmountable hurdle for Microsoft. It's as if none of them ever heard of Rosetta.

Once the darn thing actually comes out at $500 -- an Xbox 360 with a hard drive and Kinect costs $400, so do the math -- it will be bought by a few die-hards with too much cash to burn. Same thing with the PS4.

Meanwhile, all Apple has to do is open up the Apple TV to developers and release a couple more models with extra storage at half the price. Since the OS is based on iOS, you're going to have people porting their stuff for Apple TV so fast you won't believe it. No, you won't be able to share games. But when they only cost $10 or $20 compared to $60 or $70, you won't care.

What's ironic is how much Microsoft focused on the thing being a jack of all trades. DOES ANYBODY USE AN XBOX FOR SKYPE? If you buy a high-horsepower console, you want to play games. You want to play games over the Internet. If you want to watch movies or TV shows, you buy a BD player, Roku or Apple TV at $100.

Wait till E3 for games, the conference was for hardware/software.

I kind of like microsofts approach. The one device to rule them all (sarcasm). If they can combine the great fluid UI demonstrated + the apps + the power + games we have a clear winner.

As for emulation, the ps4 won't play ps3 games.

To emulate something the primary device needs to be much much much much faster. Software emulation simply isn't possible at this time.

 

[mrmarts]

Apple did not blow anything they were specific about not entering the game market, in terms of movies they have a huge selection and there hd quality is the nearest to blu ray quality compared to the competition.

 

[gnasher729]

Was hoping apple would expand the apple tv to have built in storage, more channels to select besides netflix and such. And NO, I don't want a dedicated tv with apple iOS running it. Wanted something to hook up to ANY tv. Plus a dedicated tv is to expensive. After reading the specs of Xbox one, and its capabilities, I think apple blew it. Unless apple brings out a apple tv with storage and more options, and wouldn't mind a bigger box from its current form factor, apple will loose. All opinions welcome on this subject.

Well, I might be interested in a cheap little box that allows me to play videos and show pictures stored on all my devices through my TV, play music through the TV, display the screens of all devices on the TV, all for little money. I'm not interested in paying many hundreds for a "gaming" device (seriously, who came up with the word "gaming" instead of "playing games"? ). Even if there was, there would be no way no earth that I could convince my wife that we should spend hundreds on a "gaming" device.

Seriously, does everyone who pays for this **** have a magical money tree that just didn't grow in only my backyard?!?

It's called "parents". For slightly older people, it's called "living with mum and dad".

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Agreed. Only in the US is Xbox clearly dominant.

Maybe dominant, but Apple TV sells more units in the last few quarters.

This is correct, Apple hasn't blown it, yet. I have said and will stand by my statement that the XBOX One blows the current ATV out of the water.

That may well be so, but most people are not interested in anything that blows anything out of the water. Which is why Apple TV is outselling XBox.

 

[GoCubsGo]

What if you already have a bluray player and don't want a game console?Does ATV still lose??

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Wow I didn't know that.It's pretty outrageous.Makes the idea that XB one is going to kill Apple even sillier.
That and the facts that we don't have a price or a release date,and have no real info about Apple's alleged product.
I guess with no information you can make anyone you want the winner!Cool!

But the ATV doesn't do live TV, does it? Serious question because mine doesn't seem to.

Let me get this straight?

A future, not currently shipping product, that you have never seen, touched, nor used, with unknown availability and price, is better than another product that has barely changed from 2010 and only cost $99.

Does all logic escape you?

The "not yet out" argument doesn't work well here for you. Knowing the specs of both, does the idea escape you that the XBOX may be more feature-rich than the ATV? Try again. You don't have to agree with me but I use the "not yet out" argument often. I'm not talking about how it looks on my shelf, I'm talking about actual documented specs or does that logic escape you?

That may well be so, but most people are not interested in anything that blows anything out of the water. Which is why Apple TV is outselling XBox.

It is outselling the current gen, but I'm saying the XBOX One (the one we're discussing here) certainly has features that surpass the ATV. Forget about gaming as we know MS certainly did in the unveiling.

 

[marzer]

What the hell were they thinking!

So Apple recently released a new iMac line up that blows the Apple TV out of the water. Better CPU, better graphics AND internal storage. The new iMacs can even play games and comes with a buit-in program for doing math calculations. Did they not consider how this would eat into their Apple TV sales?!

...Idiots.

 

[E.Lizardo]

But the ATV doesn't do live TV, does it? Serious question because mine doesn't seem to.

Gee I thought we were talking about Apple's upcoming product.You know-the one we know nothing about.
And you didn't answer my question,which boils down to is it worth the price of an XB one if you have no use for a Bluray player or game console?And what sort of "Live TV" does it offer that is not on my cable AND is worth paying MORE money for monthly??????
It would have to be really awesome.

*Edit*
Ok I just watched the Microsoft keynote video showing the live TV.It's a fancy,and pretty nice way to navigate the cable you already have.No new content.Sorry but that's worth exactly zero dollars to me.
This whole comparison is absurd.The products are so different that comparisons break down.Especially considering price(since you insist on using the current ATV for comparison).
Let's see.Product one is $99,with zero ongoing cost.
Product two is probably $400 to as much as $600 and requires a monthly fee.
If product two didn't do more it would be cancelled in a month.
For my needs,which do not include gaming or a bluray player the ATV blows the XB one into vapor.

I really don't understand why you are making this comparison.One product announced with no price or sale date,another product with zero-ZERO official information available.Can you even see how utterly pointless that is??

Any points you make about the upcoming Apple product are pulled out of thin air and worthless.

Here's a crazy idea-lets compare the two when we know what the hell we are talking about mmkay?

 

[CausticPuppy]

Was hoping apple would expand the apple tv to have built in storage, more channels to select besides netflix and such. And NO, I don't want a dedicated tv with apple iOS running it. Wanted something to hook up to ANY tv. Plus a dedicated tv is to expensive. After reading the specs of Xbox one, and its capabilities, I think apple blew it. Unless apple brings out a apple tv with storage and more options, and wouldn't mind a bigger box from its current form factor, apple will loose. All opinions welcome on this subject.

The new XBox One still uses clunky HDMI pass-through (from your existing set-top-box) to support live TV, with overlays.

Apple's not going to do it until they can do it the right way-- which is more limited by the rest of the TV industry and broadcast agreements, not by technology.

An XBox One would save me from having to press 1 button on my remote control, which is to switch between two HDMI inputs on my TV (AppleTV vs. SetTopBox). Not exactly revolutionizing an industry!

 

[E.Lizardo]

The new XBox One still uses clunky HDMI pass-through (from your existing set-top-box) to support live TV, with overlays.

Apple's not going to do it until they can do it the right way-- which is more limited by the rest of the TV industry and broadcast agreements, not by technology.

An XBox One would save me from having to press 1 button on my remote control, which is to switch between two HDMI inputs on my TV (AppleTV vs. SetTopBox). Not exactly revolutionizing an industry!

Yes.Apparently it doesn't take much to "blow away the ATV"for some people!

 

[WhiteIphone5]

I'm an xbox guy, but not sure the ONE appeals to me. I'm 47 and love to play, but I'm not a guy who wants to play while skyping while checking my fantasy sports team (actually...I don't have one). Perhaps this kind of multi-tasking content is designed for the younger user. Yes - the voice activated interface is slick...wonder how it will be in the real world.

And I have a home theater receiver with multiple inputs, so the switching/combined viewing on the ONE is neat, but not sure I'd really use it all that much.

For me, it's about the games. And until the ONE has some games that I can't play on my 360, I'm not going to be lining up for it. But time will tell - as more info comes out, perhaps a more compelling argument will be made for old guys like me. I fear it will be above the $299 price point...hopefully they will have learned from the PS3 intro that prices above that will kill sales...

Stay tuned, I suppose.

E3 bud

 

[old-wiz]

I have an ATV3 and the big problem is trying to watch DVDs from my collection. It's not worth the time and effort to rip/encode them into iTunes or some other player. I haven't found the stock ATV apps to be that useful. The uTube app won't do closed captions, I don't watch sports, etc.

I'm not blaming Apple..I was aware of the limitations but just gave it a try.

Now I'm thinking of a Mac mini with an external DVD drive and possibly an Elgato tuner.

Xbox is basically for gaming, and Apple hasn't tried to get into hard core gaming. Besides the new Xbox isn't even out yet and they don't have an actual date. Who knows what Apple will be selling when the new Xbox comes out?

 

[MrXiro]

I'm skipping PS4 and XBox One... for now. I'm a grown up with grown up money issues.

When I have money again I'll buy them both and not play them like I don't play my Wii, Xbox 360 and PS3.

I'm love my two ATV3s and hope that ATV4 brings on some more Apps and other cut the cord TV viewing stuff.

Currently I only live off of downloads, Hulu Plus and Netflix. Cut the cord when I moved last Oct.

 

[whooleytoo]

Wow I didn't know that.It's pretty outrageous.Makes the idea that XB one is going to kill Apple even sillier.
That and the facts that we don't have a price or a release date,and have no real info about Apple's alleged product.
I guess with no information you can make anyone you want the winner!Cool!

The same is true with the 'new' web browser for the 360, you need the paid subscription to use it. And more annoyingly: if you're not signed in when you try to run the browser for the first time, it tells you that a free XBL account will suffice to download it; then when you try to run it informs you you need a Gold (paid) XBL account. XBL Gold buys you a few things you can get for free elsewhere. It's probably fine if you do a lot of Multiplayer, otherwise not.

On another note - I hope the game/DLC download UI in the new Xbox One will be a lot better. For many items, you can only get a brief text description, and much of this is filled with SeasonPass & other disclaimers.

 

[mpaquette]

This is correct, Apple hasn't blown it, yet. I have said and will stand by my statement that the XBOX One blows the current ATV out of the water. Apple hasn't offered an updated ATV just yet so they haven't yet blown it. My guess though is that we won't see live TV on the ATV, but that is only a guess.

Whew, it's a good thing I don't keep my Apple TV in the water then.

 

[brendu]

Key difference:

Apple press events often end with the words: 'Shipping tomorrow'.
The XBox One is expected to be released towards the end of 2013.

This is a huge factor that I can't believe other companies don't get. Apple does so well because they don't announce their products months before launch. They usually do so days to weeks before launch. Software is different because they need developers to test it but hardware rarely gets introduced months ahead of time.