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I provided the number of subscribers in a link, add them up.

You missed the point completely. Look to your implied assumptions; that's where you've not supported your arguments. Provide some basis for those and we might have something to discuss.

Simple Yes/No question:
Could a Verizon or Sprint or TMobile customer who wanted an iphone in June 2010 switch to AT&T and buy an iPhone4?
 
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You missed the point completely. Look to your implied assumptions; that's where you've not supported your arguments. Provide some basis for those and we might have something to discuss.

Simple Yes/No question:
Could a Verizon or Sprint or TMobile customer who wanted an iphone in June 2010 switch to AT&T and buy an iPhone4?
Yes.

Now here's a simple yes/no question:
Could a Verizon or Sprint or Tmoblie customer who wanted an iphone in June 2009 switch to AT&T and buy an iPhone3GS?

Could a Verizon or Sprint or Tmoblie customer who wanted an iphone in June 2008 switch to AT&T and buy an iPhone3G?

Could a Verizon or Sprint or Tmoblie customer who wanted an iphone in June 2007 switch to AT&T and buy an iPhone?

So, it's not exclusive to the ip4, is it? You know what's the biggest kicker? when the ip4 launched on Verizon, AT&T STILL sold more iphones, and analysts agree that AT&T overall lost no iphone subscribers:
http://betanews.com/2011/04/21/at-t-and-verizon-iphone-sales-are-nearly-the-same-40-000-per-day/

So, yes or no question:
If AT&T overall lost no subscribers when the ip4 launched on Verizon, could the same be true with the ip4s launch?
 
Hahahaha, you completely missed the point again!

I give up, you just don't seem to have the capacity for this stuff.

BTW, you're article on Verizon just proved our point. But you probably don't understand that.
 
Apple can get their what together?

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Perhaps you have memory issues. You said the market tripled in the US.



Not at all, you're the one that needs to prove yourself. Everyone here believes the 4S is a success. Even the OP bought one. (see above)

Thank you for doing all that leg work for me. I really don't understand what all the fuss was about.
 
Could a Verizon or Sprint or TMobile customer who wanted an iphone in June 2010 switch to AT&T and buy an iPhone4?


Excellent. We're agreed then that a Verizon/Sprint/Tmobile subscriber could switch to AT&T if they wanted an iphone4 (or any earlier generation, I used iphone4 simply because that was your reference).

Since a "market" in business is a group of existing and potential customers with an interest, ability, and willingness to pay for your product, it follows then that the market for iphones has never been limited solely to AT&T subscribers.

Please explain again your assertion that non AT&T customers weren't part of the overall potential market for the iphone4 or any other previous iphone.
 
Oh, so anyone who wanted an iphone 4 already got one despite carrier availabilty? Please.

Of course not, and no one is claiming that. But it's equally stupid to suggest that "the market" for any given version of the phone consisted only of the current subscribers of whatever provider offered the phone at that time, and then increased by the total subscriber base of any new providers added later.

Your "calculations" (and I use that term loosely) allow you to claim "Look! Sprint has X number of subscribers, but the launch only sold Y more many phones!"

In fact, the iPhone has been around for several years now. It makes zero since to suggest that Sprint's current base was some massive, untapped market. At this point, Sprint's ranks may very well have a ton of folks who haven't had any interest in the iPhone, despite prior offerings.
 
Excellent. We're agreed then that a Verizon/Sprint/Tmobile subscriber could switch to AT&T if they wanted an iphone4 (or any earlier generation, I used iphone4 simply because that was your reference).

Since a "market" in business is a group of existing and potential customers with an interest, ability, and willingness to pay for your product, it follows then that the market for iphones has never been limited solely to AT&T subscribers.

Please explain again your assertion that non AT&T customers weren't part of the overall potential market for the iphone4 or any other previous iphone.
You're hanging your argument on the definition of a market?

If anyone wanted an iphone first, other issue second (carrier, contract, etc.), they already would have gotten one. This is true for every year that a new iphone was launched. In the case where some OTHER issue was first, iphone second (carrier, contract, etc.), they wouldn't have gotten one. This is true for every year that a new iphone was launched. It's not just exclusive to the ip4s. Nor is it exclusive to the ip4 launch on Verizon earlier in the year.

So, what has changed between the iphone 4 launch (600K pre-orders) and the ip4s launch (1M pre-orders). 2 more countries are included in the simultaneous launch (Australia and Canada) and from what I could find, 3 more carriers, 1 in Japan (a launch market for both phones) and 2 in the US. The two in the US alone more than doubled the number of subscribers available to get the iphone.

and thanks for answering my yes/no questions -_-
 
Lol at this thread...Apple did not blew it..they sold 1 million iPhone 4s in 24 hrs.. The guy who started this thread got owned really hard
 
The two in the US alone more than doubled the number of subscribers available to get the iPhone.

No. You've already admitted that the subscribers of Verizon and Sprint could have gotten the iPhone 4 at launch. The were already part of the market. They can't double the size of a market that they were already a part of.

If anything, there are less people in the market to buy an iPhone 4S than an iPhone 4, because of the 75 - 100 million iPhone 4 and 3GS customers that purchased there phone in the last 20 months that are still under a two year contract.

But to get back to the main point, your attempt to downplay the significance of what will likely be close to $2 billion in iPhone sales in one weekend is laughable.

Apple added two countries in Canada and Australia with 10% of the GDP of the original 5 countries, and an even smaller percentage of population. This will likely result in close to double the first weekend sales.
 
You're hanging your argument on the definition of a market?

Bingo! I believe you posted:
If double the launch markets doesn't equal double the number of potential customers, then they are definitely doing something wrong.

Your claim was that Tmobile / Verizon / Sprint customers in prior years weren't "markets". We've agreed they were. You can't have it both ways.

(BTW, your yes/no questions were answered in context in my post.)
 
We were on Verizon when we switched to AT&T to get our iPhone 3G's. But I guess that was impossible, because as Verizon subscribers, we were not allowed to be part of the iPhone's potential market back then.
 
Yeah :)

If this is blowing it: iPhone 4S Launch Sends Apple Stock to Its Highest Close Ever I wonder what happens when they get it right.

As Henry Ford said (he probably didn't but it's a good story anyway): "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

That quote doesn't really apply here as we are technically just getting "a faster horse".

The 4S is just a spec bump and slight software bump; it's a faster horse.
 
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Dumbledorelives said:
Agreed. I would say this is a major *******-up by Apple.

How long have you had apple products? You'll notice that they don't just change their design every year (like all other pc companies). They stick with a design that works and improve the specs for a while. They aren't doing anything different than what they have done in the past. And they are the most profitable company because of it.
 
That quote doesn't really apply here as we are technically just getting "a faster horse".

The 4S is just a spec bump and slight software bump; it's a faster horse.

It's more than a spec bump and slight software bump.

The entire phone is rebuilt on the inside, a new camera, processor, antenna redesigned. Software with 200 NEW features is not just a slight software bump, it's major. On the inside it's all different, the only thing that hasn't changed is the outside appearance. The iPhone 4 design is in my opinion the best looking smartphone out there. At this point I would be happy if the iPhone 29 still looked the same.

My iPhone 4 feels like a new phone with all the new features in iOS5. I would love an iPhone 4S but I will have to wait until next month win my contract will allow that. At first I thought I would just wait until the iPhone 5 came out, but after playing with one at the Apple Store yesterday I can't wait. Like when the 3GS I may change my mind next month when I am eligible. I kept my 3G until the 4 came out, it was just 6 more months of waiting, but now we'll see what the rumors are in a month and go from there.
 
It's more than a spec bump and slight software bump.

The entire phone is rebuilt on the inside, a new camera, processor, antenna redesigned. Software with 200 NEW features is not just a slight software bump, it's major. On the inside it's all different, the only thing that hasn't changed is the outside appearance. The iPhone 4 design is in my opinion the best looking smartphone out there. At this point I would be happy if the iPhone 29 still looked the same.

My iPhone 4 feels like a new phone with all the new features in iOS5. I would love an iPhone 4S but I will have to wait until next month win my contract will allow that. At first I thought I would just wait until the iPhone 5 came out, but after playing with one at the Apple Store yesterday I can't wait. Like when the 3GS I may change my mind next month when I am eligible. I kept my 3G until the 4 came out, it was just 6 more months of waiting, but now we'll see what the rumors are in a month and go from there.

Reread all of that and tell me it isn't a spec bump and slight feature bump. There's nothing "new". Nothing. Finally pull down notifications like Android, and you get a spec bump along with Siri, which still is NOT NEW.


The entire phone is rebuilt on the inside, a new camera, processor, antenna redesigned. Software with 200 NEW features is not just a slight software bump, it's major. On the inside it's all different, the only thing that hasn't changed is the outside appearance. The iPhone 4 design is in my opinion the best looking smartphone out there. At this point I would be happy if the iPhone 29 still looked the same.

That's the first thing you said. It all qualifies under a spec bump and a minor UI update.

I ordered an iPhone 4S myself, and it should be here in a few hours (had to get it shipped from home), but this update from 4-4S is just a spec bump, just like the 3G-3GS. Everybody knows it, that's why so many people were upset when they announced this. 16 months or so right? Far too long for a spec bump, but I'm assuming they were waiting for iOS 5; they couldn't just release a spec bump in the middle of the year, they'd get hounded for that.

You love your iPhone and it does a lot, I get it; I'm going to love mine and use Siri religiously, being a college student, and the services it has and the polish it has over Android are what I'm looking for.

But that doesn't cloud my judgement when I look at it and say, it's a spec bump. With a minor UI update. That is all. Don't get caught up in how you FEEL, look at it rationally.

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How long have you had apple products? You'll notice that they don't just change their design every year (like all other pc companies). They stick with a design that works and improve the specs for a while. They aren't doing anything different than what they have done in the past. And they are the most profitable company because of it.

It's different with phones rather than computers though. With computers, it's a device that sits in one spot when used, and generally the only things worth changing are the internals and display. Once you get a good design, you keep it.

They changed to Aluminum recently due to heat dissipation (to allow for less fan usage or whatever) and the fact that it looks and feels nice, but with phones, design is more important than just specs. Design and software.

Software wise, I think iOS has a lot to offer, reasoning for me to jump ship from Android after 2 years. However, the hardware could change, and the fact that Android is becoming so powerful and so widespread doesn't help when Apple is on a 1 year cycle, especially when Samsung keeps outing better phone after better phone.

The Galaxy S 3 should be announced at CES or so next year; now don't get me wrong, and don't wrongly assume, I'm no spec junkie or Android fanboy or anything, but it's easy to say "Apple is doing great, the phone is awesome" now, but say that 5 months from now, when we're looking at quad core phones on improved UI overall (Ice Cream Sandwich) and Blackberry's new OS, along with whatever update WIndows phone 7 gets.

Competition is great, and I love it; i just want Apple to speed up their level of innovation; they did an amazing job so far, but they need to INCREASE that to stay on top of the game.
 
Yeah :)

If this is blowing it: iPhone 4S Launch Sends Apple Stock to Its Highest Close Ever I wonder what happens when they get it right.
The Ford Taurus used to be the best selling domestic car. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the best car out there.

Apple does, though, have a finely honed little machine in the iPhone. Kind of like a little BMW. Some people need more room though, so BMW makes larger models. Apple is content making billions off their little phone. No incentive to change.
 
The Ford Taurus used to be the best selling domestic car. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the best car out there.

Apple does, though, have a finely honed little machine in the iPhone. Kind of like a little BMW. Some people need more room though, so BMW makes larger models. Apple is content making billions off their little phone. No incentive to change.
While I agree with your points in general the comment I made was with respect to the thread title which implied that the 4S was going to flop.

The 4S may not be the very best phone available at this moment but it's close to the top and while that may change in the next 12 months Apple has achieved their objective which is to turn a profit and keep the shareholders happy.
 
While I agree with your points in general the comment I made was with respect to the thread title which implied that the 4S was going to flop.

The 4S may not be the very best phone available at this moment but it's close to the top and while that may change in the next 12 months Apple has achieved their objective which is to turn a profit and keep the shareholders happy.

Seeing as how the stocks fell after the announcement, I don't think they were too happy.

But saying that just sounds like an excuse for their short comings.
 
Seeing as how the stocks fell after the announcement, I don't think they were too happy.

But saying that just sounds like an excuse for their short comings.

Such a simplistic interpretation of the stock market is ridiculous. It's a common stock trading practice to buy on rumors and sell on announcements. It doesn't imply the announcement is disappointing.

And then, of course, the stock has subsequently hit an all time high.
 
Such a simplistic interpretation of the stock market is ridiculous. It's a common stock trading practice to buy on rumors and sell on announcements. It doesn't imply the announcement is disappointing.

And then, of course, the stock has subsequently hit an all time high.

I know tha, but that is not what I was referencing. The fact that it was the 4S instead of the 5 and jobs death could also play into it as well; both of those were reasons of the fall.

Don't imply what I don't directly state. I made that comment in relation to the quote I referenced to.
 
I know tha, but that is not what I was referencing. The fact that it was the 4S instead of the 5 and jobs death could also play into it as well; both of those were reasons of the fall.

Don't imply what I don't directly state. I made that comment in relation to the quote I referenced to.

No, the reason for the fall is that there is always a fall after every announcement. It's a sell-off...standard practice.

If there is a fall after every announcement, you can't presume to assign any other meaning.
 
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