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Re: AM I missing the point?

Originally posted by mk_in_mke
If Apple makes the move then the important point for us is : is it the right move? What are the tools that are going to support this move? Where is Apple going and what are they targeting...

I think that this is a logical move BUT is it what the market is expecting in the long term?

Positioning, positioning, positioning!

Michel

1. I think Apple will, to greater or lesser extent, make this deal more advantageous to .mac customers because even Apple recognizes that the service needs improving to justify the price.

Many have argued that the .mac customer base is too small for Apple to limit the product to them. But look at the flipside--Apple is thoroughly committed to .mac. It is a fee-based component of OS X. The integration will only get tighter, and they want to broaden that customer base. Making the program in some way better for .mac users will bring in more customers. I could easily see Apple integrating the iTunes 4 song-puchasing feature with .mac.

2. Now, to contradict myself, I think that many have correctly assumed that the iPod's success will prompt Apple to pursue other ways to cash in on the portable digital music consumer market. What this does is make buying an iPod all the more compelling. Therefore, either the article is wrong in saying that this product will only be available for Apple users or Apple will test run it with Apple users for the first year or so before expanding it to Windows (just as they did with the iPod itself).

3. Apple is not the only tech company to realize that fee-based, steady-stream products are in many ways more profitable than selling hardware or even software with its annual upgrades. Products like this will keep the hogs at the trough all day long.

4. This is further proof that they intend to utterly dominate the "digital hub" market. This product will work far better than everything else on the market, I have no doubt (Except for the one nagging doubt I have that selection will be limited to the big labels, and perhaps even a select list of titles from said labels?that would be a huge mistake. One of the things that makes Amazon, Ebay, and other Internet shopping experiences so great is that you can literally find anything and everything ever published, sold, made, etc. The same needs to be true for the digital music market.)
 
Originally posted by DeusOmnis
Also, what about the smart ppl that will sign up for one month, download every song possible (I can dl at 900 kb/sec), and then not purchase another month until a year or so later (except for the hits of course).
The current offerings (PressPlay) use DRM so that you can only listen to those songs if your account is still current.
 
"Confirmation" ?

Um... why is a RUMOR "CONRIFIRMED!!" just because the LA Times publised it? For all we know, their sources were mac rumor sites.

Don't be silly. news.com has published false Apple rumors gleaned from the web before, i wouldn't put it past the LA Times.
 
Originally posted by Timothy
Ambitious...I was wondering if you'd pop up into this discussion. Remember when we went round and round on this issue a while back? ;-)

I say you're wrong. Downloading music off P2P networks is immoral...the "everybody is doing it" argument is lame. :rolleyes:

Is not...

Is too...

Is not..

Is too...

Maybe we should just link to our prior debate?

think we could find it? that was awhile ago. dont think anyone read it all but you and me though.
 
Originally posted by wdodd
The current offerings (PressPlay) use DRM so that you can only listen to those songs if your account is still current.

Well, they had different information... so presumably a seperate source.

arn
 
Originally posted by sparks9
This is a very dangerous business, dealing with the big record companies! I hope Apple survives this "adventure"... :eek:

I'm stunned it took until the middle of page 3 of a 5 page post for this to be pointed out.
The big record companies are huge scared animals right now generally because of their complete inability to change at the same speed as the rest of us. So their fight back is to try and control and its wrong.

Personally I have bought more music since having iTunes and the likes of Limewire because I can try before I buy, however I will not buy copy protected CD's. (These are a UK only thing at the moment where a PC can't read the "CD" or it might mess up the optical drive, the scared animals won't try it in the US as its the biggest market)

So for some artists I'm only left with download and its already been pointed out that the P2P services are being polluted with doctored content.

So the Apple link sounds like a great idea; but then scared animals make sure the great idea is only available to 3% (max) of us - this however gives them a legal argument of being 'in touch' with new tech. Then the system its on won't allow the 99c purchase to be shared even between 2 iPods in the same household + all the other calmer rants that have come before.

Oh and why do I want AAC when we all now are fully tuned to MP3?

I think I'd be happier to just have vinyl with a good system and a bit of care it was nearly as good as MP3, reasonably cheap and I could borrow a mates copy to put on a tape that was ok.
Of course not I've changed, but some elements were good particularly borrowing someone elses to discover it was good and that I didn't want a tape I wanted the best quality there was so I bought it - even as a 'child'!
That part has never changed but people in big offices who never listen to the stuff they sell can't understand that and get unnecessarily scared.

This could be good thing for Apple, it could bring more switchers to this beloved platform, but it really scares me that Apple could get burned because you can't trust these dinosaurs - after all they can't see that its them trying to kill their business.

Excuse the rant etc. its late over here.......
 
Originally posted by CraigStanton
I would gladly use this service but I don't think Apple will let me.

The problem is my address. I don't live in America or Canada. I live in New Zealand, and because of this simple fact I have been barred from many of the .Mac benifits that those in North America can enjoy.

I couldn't claim the free photo printing that originally convinced me to sign up for .Mac, I couldn't get any of the vouchers that they offered to many European countries as a replacement for the "free photo" deal, I couldn't enter the .Mac creativity contest and I can't even pay for the iPhoto printing service.

I don't expect Apple will include other countries in this new music service, but I do expect them to charge the rest of us the same amount anyway.

Sorry everyone I forgot to include this point in my previous post
Enough bitterness for one night..:mad:
 
Originally posted by sparks9
Yeah in Denmark the price for a new cd is ~20? (~22$).
Way too expensive I think. Some time after the release you can get them for half the price though.

BTW: The number of cds sold in Denmark have been halfed in the last 2 years. Guess why....
I can only guess. I tried to find a place to buy Jupiter Day's album. Looked everywhere, couldn't find a place online from which to buy it. I finally gave up and (since I stay legal with my music) sent an e-mail off to Sony Music DK. Got a message back wondering how I (being from the States) had heard about Jupiter Day. I sent back close to a page long story how I arrived there (going from Spanish class, to Basque music, to other forms of Euro music, to Danish music [D-A-D, Me & My] and then finally hearing Jupiter Day.....just more in depth) and I got an e-mail back asking what my address was and that for my "amazingly long journey" I'd get a copy for free :D . Like 4 days later I got the album, plus their three singles.

The really funny part? This whole story is true.
 
MP3 ACC

So this might be the stupid question, but if Apple goes ACC, what happens to MP3? Do they all get converted? I have 10GB of MP3. ITunes would have to support both and rip both, right?
 
I Think It'll Work

I believe it will work for a couple of reasons:

1) Mac owners are obviously willing to pay for quality- look at the prices of the machines. So, perhaps, the average Mac user is more apt to shell out a few bucks for some good quality tunes and the interface than the average PC user.

2) Apple has a cult-like following. A large percentage of Mac users would probably want this to succeed so they'd support it.

3) As someone else mentioned, a lot of Mac users are involved- in some way- in creative fields and can more easily empathize with musical artists.

I also believe that the .mac users will get some perks that others don't get. Perhaps iDisk backup of downloads?

Can someone please explain how this could hurt Apple? So they spend a few million getting the interface tweaked. Is that all they'd be out if this service fails? I say give it a shot. Why not?

Squire
 
Yeah, but you could conserve quite a bit of HD space if you re-ripped the CDs to AAC (much smaller file for same quality). I know I will be doing this in phases, whenever I get a chance.
 
Re: MP3 ACC

Originally posted by bkassing
So this might be the stupid question, but if Apple goes ACC, what happens to MP3? Do they all get converted? I have 10GB of MP3. ITunes would have to support both and rip both, right?
MP3 isn't going away any time soon. Even if AAC is noticeably better at lower bit rates, people aren't going to throw away all the MP3's that they've ripped and encoded or throw away all the devices/software that only support MP3.

What you might see is that iTunes would give you a choice to encode to either MP3 or AAC. The iPod would have to be updated to support decoding AAC. It remains to be seen if this can be delivered as a firmware update to existing iPods. We're all hoping that the existing iPod owners will be supported (and the chances seem good).

You will be disappointed if you transcode from MP3 to AAC. A copy of a copy made in this manner will sound a lot worse than encoding to AAC from the original CD. Some people might do it to save disk space, but I would keep my MP3 collection and consider encoding new music to AAC. Personally, I still like MP3 for the flexibility it gives me to play back on a number of devices and software.
 
I agree

Can someone please explain how this could hurt Apple? So they spend a few million getting the interface tweaked. Is that all they'd be out if this service fails? I say give it a shot. Why not?

It's not like there's a massive outlay of cash happening here. An Applescript running overnight to encode the AACs- a bit of code to add browse and buy- and all the info comes via EDI from the publishers anyway.

They'd be foolish not to do it if there was a demand for this- and there clearly is. I know I'll buy when it's available.
 
Anyone think it would be possible as part of the music download that it could also download the words? Could they scroll on the screen or be a part of the visuals as a viewing option?

Rendezvous is the answer to the one computer issue. Awesome.
 
Re: MP3 ACC

Originally posted by bkassing
So this might be the stupid question, but if Apple goes ACC, what happens to MP3? Do they all get converted? I have 10GB of MP3. ITunes would have to support both and rip both, right?

No, if you rip AAC from mp3 you are just recompressing an already compressed mp3. You will actually lose quality from the mp3. In order to get the benefits of higher sound quality, you will need to start over from scratch, ripping all of your library from CD.
 
Lots to say.

Will I be able to segregate AAC files from mp3s?

I've got over 12 GB of mp3s, all ripped from CDs I own (and I'm not even finished ripping my collection.) I've been ripping them all at 192, using VBR, which means that a lot of the tracks get encoded at upwards of 200. Virtually indistinguishable from full-quality CD audio to my ears, unless I'm listening with headphones (there seems to be less presence in the mp3s compared to the originals. The music is "less stereo" and closer to mono, if that makes any sense.) I'm willing to put up with that, because I only use iTunes for playing my CDs jukebox style or making mixes. For full-CD duplication, I use Toast.

I'm interested to see what's in store with this rumored upgrade to iTunes featuring AAC support and downloading. If the quality is that much better with even smaller sizes, I'd consider using the download service.

People complaining about the number of low-quality, error laden files on the P2P networks might want to look into Usenet newsgroups. The alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.* groups don't seem to have anything other than high-bitrate encodings, and they take requests. ;) I don't use Usenet to download entire albums, but instead download one or two tracks to see if an album is worth purchasing.

BUT I've got to say that the online distribution method I like the best is livephish.com. Phish's sound engineer Paul Languedoc records every show from the soundboard, dumps it onto a TiBook, inserts track breaks and fadeouts, then uploads the files somewhere. All shows are available for purchasing no more than 48 hours after the performance, and the tracks are available in .mp3 format (128, I think) as well as in Shorten (.shn), which is a larger file size but absolutely lossless. .Shns cost more, but I'd rather pay $12.95 for THREE DISCS WORTH of full-quality audio from one concert than pay a buck per song. The Phish deal includes PDFs of CD cover inserts, too.
 
Make it real

I think the key here is that apple has to recognize that if this is going to be successful, it has to have appeal across the board. I have confidence that Apple will be able to make the service relatively simple and easy to use, but if I can't find the music that I'm interested in when I'm interested in it, I'm not going to integrate this software into my life. I'll get bored with it and forget about it. If, however, there is more than just billboards top 200 and X's greatest hits, then there would definitely be times when I'd pay to be able to download some music at a high reliable quality and bandwidth. Time is money and if I have to waste time dealing with unreliable music downloads, I'm losing money.
I don't think it's realistic that when this product is released the offerings will be that diverse, but maybe in a year?

Shake your a$$. watch yourself.
 
Pay scale?

This could work, if..

.mac sub gives you low quality - 64k AAC maybe - unlimited "preview" downloads.

99cents/song or 7-9 bucks/album for uncompressed one-clik purchase. With .pdf info.
 
Re: Yes you are

Originally posted by QuiteSure
Because you view the likelihood that you will be caught as inconsequential, you mistakenly characterize the music as "free."

Thieves who are never caught are still stealing.

If you are ever caught, what will be your defense?

1. "Everybody is doing it." Never works.
2. "The music is just too expensive." Never works.
3. "The artists make plenty of money." Never works.

I am simply amazed by the brazenly immoral tone taken by some of the posters on this thread.

Would you go into a restaurant and steal tip money off a table?

There's no difference.

Music is free, it's having a hard copy from the music company that's carries a fee. How can you compare stealing tips to downloading mp3s? I can record on the radio a damn good copy of any song I want. I can record on Tivo/VHS and damn video I want, hey all for FREE and LEGAL. So how is downlaoding a dumbed down copy of a music file illegal? How is using a legally store bought GO GO VIDEO amchine to MAKE EXACT COPIES of VHS movies legal, but downloading an avi and joining the file segments then converting it to mpg and either leaving it on my computer or burning a copy to a CD illegal?

How many of you OWNED A STEREO WITH 2 CASSETTE DECKS!?!?

Immoral? That's what's silly. That you some how feel like dudley do right and all us downloaders are eveil villians who are only doing WHAT WE'VE DONE SINCE THE EARLY 80s!!!

It's only illegal when the big corporations think it's denting their pockets.

So I guess I've stole tips of tables since I bought my first LEGAL stereo with 2 cassette decks. I'm so evil and immoral :rolleyes:
 
Oh yea- Anyone else catch the HNN clip about Apple releasing a music service next month where users can download songs for a buck a peice? Very interesting news.

Nice to see Apple getting press and nice to see Apple rumors getting that much attention and nice to see Apple of the news.
 
Re: Re: Yes you are

Originally posted by Kid Red
Music is free, it's having a hard copy from the music company that's carries a fee. How can you compare stealing tips to downloading mp3s? I can record on the radio a damn good copy of any song I want. I can record on Tivo/VHS and damn video I want, hey all for FREE and LEGAL. So how is downlaoding a dumbed down copy of a music file illegal? How is using a legally store bought GO GO VIDEO amchine to MAKE EXACT COPIES of VHS movies legal, but downloading an avi and joining the file segments then converting it to mpg and either leaving it on my computer or burning a copy to a CD illegal?

How many of you OWNED A STEREO WITH 2 CASSETTE DECKS!?!?

Immoral? That's what's silly. That you some how feel like dudley do right and all us downloaders are eveil villians who are only doing WHAT WE'VE DONE SINCE THE EARLY 80s!!!

It's only illegal when the big corporations think it's denting their pockets.

So I guess I've stole tips of tables since I bought my first LEGAL stereo with 2 cassette decks. I'm so evil and immoral :rolleyes:

When you capture media that is streamed (radio, Tivo), the copyright owner is compensated as part of his property rights during the streaming process. When "hard copy" media is converted into mp3s and then disseminated over the web, there is no compensation to the copyright owner. This is the fundamental legal difference.

If you disagree with the laws about property rights you are free to contact your elected representative or move to a communist country.

If you wrote a great song, wouldn't you want compensation for it?

If ten million people wanted a copy, wouldn't you want compensation in kind?

If you knew that ten million people were listening but only ten thousand were paying, would you possible consider a different line of work?

These are all considerations that go into this debate.
 
Re: Re: Yes you are

Originally posted by Kid Red
Music is free, it's having a hard copy from the music company that's carries a fee. How can you compare stealing tips to downloading mp3s? I can record on the radio a damn good copy of any song I want. I can record on Tivo/VHS and damn video I want, hey all for FREE and LEGAL. So how is downlaoding a dumbed down copy of a music file illegal? How is using a legally store bought GO GO VIDEO amchine to MAKE EXACT COPIES of VHS movies legal, but downloading an avi and joining the file segments then converting it to mpg and either leaving it on my computer or burning a copy to a CD illegal?
You're missing an obvious point which is that you can make legal copies for backup purposes provided you OWN a copy of the VHS tape. In the same way, it's perfectly legal to make MP3's of CD's that you bought and paid for, as long as those MP3's are for your personal use. I used to make tapes of LP's that I bought so I could play that music in the car. That was legal then and is now. But making tapes from friends' albums was never legal.
 
jettredmont:

I didn't meant to imply that funds that Spears brings in goes dirctly to unknown bands. But if a major label is having money trouble who is going to go first, the big name super star or the talented yet unknown artist? If a major label is getting money hand over fist from their super stars they will be more likly to spend money on a band that doesn't neccesarily look like it will shoot up the pop charts.


Like I said before, I think the current way the labels are setup is f**ked, but I believe that the fundamental philosphy behind a record label is still sound.


Lethal
 
Licensing Fees?

OK, i haven't read the entire thread here, but:

Will Apple be licensing music libraries? I'm sure that the big 5 music companies aren't going to just say: "Here, take our IP (intellectual property) and if you make money on it, great, we'll take 50%." Doubtful. I'd be interested to know the details surrounding how this got worked out with recording companies.

A person who thinks that this wouldn't take a tremendous amount of capital may not realize that there's more to it than setting a script and a bunch of servers...i guarantee that whatever agreement is worked out between Apple and the record companies is in the hundreds of pages and someone's getting millions and millions of dollars if this turns out to be factual.

my 2 centavos
 
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