In the end I would place my bets on energy companies and food. All these things we regard now as perfectly normal (good food, water and energy) will be the limited resources of the future. And this is going down even faster anyone could expected. Look at civil unrest plowing through the world already. I don't want to pull the scare card here but the iPhone 7 (or even 6) might be the least of your worries in the near future.
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Apple Briefly Ranked as Most Valuable Company in the World
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umm i dont think you are reading it right.
Check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater-than_sign
then get back to me
I'm not saying Government should be the arbiter. I'm saying that they eventually become an arbiter when something gets big enough. Denial of this reality is stupid, and if you don't believe me, look at the history of AT&T, Standard Oil, and the list can go on and on.
Since Apple can't maintain a Monopoly, I don't think the government will step in, I just believe they'll decline from their peaks. They're tech, after all, and as you tend to forget, they don't make hardware anymore. So there's no real need for Apple beyond Software.
And who am I to declare what morality is? I'm me. You can declare morality, too. Its called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Nice morality there. Too bad you seem to again have no sense of it due to the fact you think I should have no opinion.
Go ahead, tell me in what world it is that not hiring people, not paying dividends and pocketing large amounts of cash is good. Seriously. I'd like to know when those things are good for the economy, for the company in the long run, and for society.
If you can't do it, I'd say, well, its pretty immoral since there's no defense on anything that you'd consider a good thing-as there is a case to be made about bad effects from this behavior.
As far as why to pay dividends: It rewards shareholders. It makes sense to hold cash in this economy from a standpoint that you don't want to go bankrupt (which isn't happening if you're Apple). Buying a company that does not pay anything to the owners of a company is essentially like buying something simply so you can sell it off. It has no value, its worthless, because it can not reward you to own it with the exception of your possible sale of the company. This means anyone who buys Apple does it because they think another sucker will someday buy it at a higher price.
And maybe you're right: Maybe Apple Execs donate in private. Who says I don't? Maybe I'm some bizarro billionaire who spends all his time donating to charity and cruising the internet on my smartphone. You wouldn't know because I'm anonymous. And if you found out my identity (which isn't hard), you'd have a tough time proving anything as far as my personal habits, as you do not know how much wealth I have, shouldn't know how much wealth I have, and what I do with it, as I am not a public corporation.
Or better yet, if they donate in private, they don't donate as Apple, they don't associate as Apple, and thus, Apple is still not a giving company and doesn't produce a culture of givingness that can be linked to the company. Contrast this to Bill Gates.
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someone needs to do their math. Apple is 1.58 billion behind according to the two numbers at the end of the post.
Stocks are blind speculation based on the "perceived" value of a company or brand... there's really not much hard substance to back up a stock price. The same goes for market cap.-- it's more so a rough estimate based again on speculation and an overly optimistic readout of all potential assets. The stock market is really just gambling if you take it in this light, with derivatives, dividends, etc just being factors added to obfuscate card counters (analysts, etc) and differentiate the game.
When you're comparing Apple to XOM... let's be realistic here. Despite what the current speculation may be, XOM will always have a much higher revenue pool and accessible market cap, even if Steve does vie for electronics domination (which is impossible to achieve).
When you're comparing Apple to XOM... let's be realistic here. Despite what the current speculation may be, XOM will always have a much higher revenue pool and accessible market cap, even if Steve does vie for electronics domination (which is impossible to achieve).
And this is what's killing the Western world right now. We're moving all of our jobs to other countries so shareholders will benefit more and more. Meanwhile, the gap between the rich and poor widens and widens. Until no one's even able to afford the products we're producing offshore anymore because we're all out of a job.
The basic tenet of a free-enterprise system is that economic actors seeking only to maximize their own gain will contribute to the greater good of all. It's true that Apple maximizes its profits by outsourcing its manufacturing operations to overseas suppliers who employ non-Americans, but by being successful Apple generates economic value for a host of domestic partners, middlemen, suppliers, and distributors. Think of all the independent developers who generate income from writing software for Apple products; the landlords who lease Apple retail space; and the hundreds of manufacturers of cases, headphones, and other Apple product accessories. Then there are the Apple authorized resellers and service shops, the FedEx and UPS drivers, the warehouses, the wireless carriers, the advertising companies, the media companies that distribute Apple's advertising, and, in turn, all the suppliers, landlords, partners and employees of these companies.
Then consider how much business Apple does in countries outside of the U.S. which generates tax revenue when repatriated. Consider also that Apple's stock is available for purchase by any American who wants to share in its profits, and that many Americans have, in fact, profited significantly by being owners of the company.
It would certainly be nice if America were once again the only infrastructure standing as in the 1950's when high school C students could get union jobs paying a lifetime of wages that could buy a decent house and send kids to college, but those days are gone, and it wasn't Apple who made manufacturing in America virtually extinct. There is nothing immoral about Apple focusing only on maximizing long-term profits within the bounds set by applicable law and regulations, and by doing so Apple, directly and indirectly, generates enormous economic activity and contributes to the economic fortunes of a great number of Americans who are and who are not Apple employees.
Our economy and our country have plenty of problems, but I don't think that having too many companies like Apple contributes to them, and I don't think companies that act like Apple does are evil--they are obeying the rules of the free enterprise system that served America very well for many years. Now if we can just come up with a tax policy that maximizes the contribution by rich and profitable companies to the well-being of our society without driving them into the arms of some other country, we'll all be happy.
Of course you are! If greed hadn't of caused you to blink you would've sold your shares at $404! Don't try and make this sound like you've won, 'cos you haven't! You've lost. Please come again. Bye!
I said made up is in the sense that it is based on the share price and that's entirely based on what investors decide to pay. That can change rather suddenly, although I highly doubt that would happen. After all Apple Inc is not Apple Computer Inc of the 90s.
Mind you I have no love for oil either. I'm no lefty (nor righty), but less reliance on oil would only be better. But that's a whole different debate.
And I agree entirely with you Sydney Crosby signature!
I think the reason you preferred it then is because most people didn't own Apple products then, and when owning one then, you felt more special than you do today. This is similar to the RayBan Wayfarer glasses. I remember owning these ten years ago feeling unique, but now they're so mainstream, I've gone off them
No, not really - not for me. Most people around me had Macs, more than half so I was anything but unique. I grew up on the Atari ST in the 80s and for me the Mac was a logical next step in the 90s.
Using the Mac in the 90s felt good because it was a genuinely ingenious OS, with great support, great community and it was reliable and versatile. You could get every hardware peripheral you'd like, everything worked or could be made to work with the Mac and the support from Apple was amazing.
....
I use Ray Ban Aviators. I don't care or need to feel "unique" or "special". I just care about good things and quality. Needless to say, those Ray Bans are from the early 90s, not after the company was sold from the USA.
Apple lost that a long long time ago. The level head, that is, and considers itself to be more or less infallible, i.e. their decisions are always good and right in any field on any matter, just by virtue of being their decision.
True, this is a basic tenet, but once you get beyond Economics 101, it starts getting a little more complex.
Take a look at an export-driven economy, like Germany: if Apple was based there, local labor would have much greater representation on its board and on supervisory bodies. There is a very good chance more of the manufacturing and R&D would be done locally. There is also a great likelihood that Apple's senior management will make less money.
There is a balance, methinks. (I also think Apple's stock is way overpriced, kind of like the US housing market was, but what do I know....)
No, but it is an indication of a much more serious problem, i.e. the axing of the XServe, the infrequent Mac Pro upgrades, the lack of investment in the Macintosh, the infrequent Mac OS upgrades, the axing of Shake, the pathetic re-write of FinalCutPro, the iMovie08 debacle, the increased demand that people should always be consuming, buying and that from Apple, e.g. through the iTunes thingy or App store, whether on an iPod or a Mac, the pathetic state of the Finder (more or less unusable after a decade) and instead trying to "fix" the OS by adding more and more app launchers (e.g. the Dock, Spotlight, Launchpad), the over-emphasis on the iCloud which excites just about no one, thinking that iOS is a "paradigm shift", and much much more.
There is a litany of errors, misjudgments, faults and mismanagement that has plagued Apple the last decade, but has been handily masked by immense growth and profit.
The lack of Blu-ray support, is a mere indication, that the company that was once on the cutting edge of tech, is there no more.
And I fart in the general direction of your sycophantic claim that BD is "obsolete removable media technology", since it is the de facto standard way of watching and distributing video, already much more popular than DVD was at the same time of it's lifetime, and a magnitude or two more popular than all downloaded content (iTunes included).
Macs used to be good for making things, and now one has to recommend Windows. Great job there Apple.
Now we get into another discussion. Logistics. Wal Mart leases a majority of their buildings.
Apple and Wal Mart are similar in 1 way but Wal Mart is bigger by its diversity. It has been widely speculated that one way Apple is manipulating the market for tablet PC's is by buying in such utter high volume they set the price and force other companies to pay higher prices based on simple supply and demand.
Wal Mart is similar but they do it in many commodities, Apple does it in one or two.
I said I'm a capitalist through and through. I'll take any amount of competition I can find.
A lot of people rag on Microsoft on how they don't "beat" Apple. MS doesn't want to beat Apple any more than Apple wants to beat Microsoft. They play in two different arena's. MS is king of the corporate world and I doubt that will change. Apple is king of consumer media, they are both equally difficult to unseat.
MS sells a solution, Apple sells and experience. They both have failed at each others businesses and done better when they focus on their strong points.
The ultimate irony here is most Apple fans are strongly left wing and believe what you want about Steve Job's liberal leanings he is one of the biggest and best Capitalists around.
I spend more time focusing on what companies do right and attempting to emulate it, which makes me more successful.
Here is where your entire argument falls apart.
Do you buy Apple products and continue to own/support them?
If you do, then by your logic your just as immoral.
Apple is Apple, they are free to do with their funds as they wish, their customers are free to spend their money as they wish.
Anytime you start to mess with that concept you end up with what we have today.
By the way, how do you define big enough?
Oil companies are always the target. But do you know how much money they invest every year in finding new oil? Every time it is a risk. How much time and they money spend learning how to extract oil? They re-invest billions of dollars each and every year.
When you start messing with a companies ability to spend money as it see's fit you hamper its ability to survive. And yes, it is slippery slope from there on out.
If anything you seem reasonable in your postings and thoughts but if you look at the big picture on long term vision it is eventually detrimental to society for government to interfere in business.
The lack of Blu-ray support, is a mere indication, that the company that was once on the cutting edge of tech, is there no more.
And I fart in the general direction of your sycophantic claim that BD is "obsolete removable media technology", since it is the de facto standard way of watching and distributing video, already much more popular than DVD was at the same time of it's lifetime, and a magnitude or two more popular than all downloaded content (iTunes included).
Macs used to be good for making things, and now one has to recommend Windows. Great job there Apple.
1-2 years ago I would have scoffed at Job's hatred of Blu Ray.
But I think in the end, he will be right. Another 2 years and VOD will match BD's quality. IMO it already can in certain instances in video quality, audio might have to catch up.
So for a long term vision is it worth the R&D not to mention the licensing fee's, and he has always said its the licensing that is the issue for a 4-5 year presence?
And yes...I know about multi quote, didn't plan on replying to more than 1.
Well said!
Apple's new campus will create lots of jobs to build it? :roll eyes:
And think, good ol' Billy Gates has given away about 1/3 of his ~30 billion dollars and works to end eliminate Malaria -- forever. I enjoy my Apple products for sure, but putting a stop to Malaria seems a fair bit more noble.
Now, if Steve made iPads to recharge with a solar panel under the screen and started giving them away to the Third World, that would be pretty cool.
Actually there's no indication that VOD whether through iTunes or cable will match the 40+ mbps needed for a BD stream in the next 5-10 years except in very limited places with very limited reliability.
Add to that, I prefer to live in the now, not in the future of maybe's and could be's. Right now, BD support would be useful - in fact already yesterday!
Adding to that the trend at all ISPs is bandwidth caps, so while internet speeds are basically stagnant in the western world, ISPs are introducing caps in more and more places. It is the new thing to make more money for ISPs and I don't blame them.
That does mean, however, that internet distribution of high-quality media will be much more expensive than it already is. A BD movie is up to 50 GBs of data.
In 5-10 years 2k resolution will be very likely the standard, and BD technology can handle the increased data. I'm afraid it is a pipe-dream to think that the internet isn't going to hit a practical brick wall in terms of bandwidth, both possible and practical (due to cost).
Besides, Mac hardware is already BD compliant, the only thing needed is the software gateway - which in and of itself doesn't cost much if anything to licence. E.g. Windows offers this, but there's no BD licence offered with Windows, you have to buy that separately with the BD player software.
Steve Jobs may be right, but not in the next 1-2 years. Perhaps in the next decade - and then only perhaps. The internet is pretty neat, but it has some severe limitations.
I'm generally inline with your thinking.
I was going to point out that Apple helped out during Japan's tsunami crisis, but it looks like all they did was provide an easy vehicle for donating to the Red Cross. It's not nothing, but it's not all that much, either.
Sigh.
I'm not sure I agree with all that you said, but overall I really appreciate what you said. You make some really good points about Apple's effect on global economies. I like it.
(And very much appreciate your tone and lack of dramatic hyperbole.)
I suppose it's true that Apple focusing on profits is not immoral (but then morality certainly varies). It would be nice to see Apple play some direct role in philanthropy in the US.
I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but it feels nice that Apple makes an effort to be environmentally friendly. (Hopefully their practices actually do help and aren't complete marketing fluff.)
One thing about US manufacturing: http://shopfloor.org/2011/03/u-s-manufacturing-remains-worlds-largest/18756
Now, whether the US is or isn't the world's largest manufacturer (or what that even means?), it would seem fair to say, though, that manufacturing in America is hardly extinct. And that's good for Americans. The first thing that comes to mind are the car manufacturing plants of foreign auto-makers (Toyota has one in CA, I believe both Honda and BMW have plants in GA or thereabouts). Those seem like they would be pretty good jobs for Americans.
Anywho, good dialogue! Thank you for the well reasoned and lack of ranting contribution.
Cheers.
Depends a bit, doesn't it?
The AAPL shares I have left I bought at $15/share. Sure, an extra $30/share is nice, but I won't be kicking myself anytime soon...