Oh, wait, you mean Full Self Driving isn't?
Google "phantom braking" for fun.
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Apple Cancels Electric Car Project
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Google "phantom braking" for fun.
I'd guess this has to do with Tesla's FSD beta v12.
Tesla is nearing in on the holy grail - they already have 5M vehicles on the road ready to receive a software update to enable full self driving, and that's growing by over 200K every month (and that rate is growing). With v12 of the FSD Beta, the consensus seems to be that the end goal of driverless vehicles that operate everywhere worldwide in any conditions is within sight.
I'd be quite shocked if Apple weren't benchmarking FSD beta - it's an open beta, any of their employees could enroll a personal vehicle in it. 0.5% of the vehicles within the beta have v12 already - most of them are within California. Apple has the resources to pay anyone in the beta to borrow a car, if they want. And upon testing it, they find that Tesla is already at the finish line. They won't be able to catch up on the software front within 4 years.
Another snag - Tesla is already talking with every OEM about adding FSD to their vehicles. So if Apple wanted to enter the market, they'd have to build their own hardware. By the time it's ready, if Tesla hits a wall and can't grow beyond their current rate of 200K vehicles per month, Tesla would already have 15M vehicles running FSD worldwide - more likely they'll be closer to 25M. Apple wouldn't reach where Tesla was in 2028 until a decade later.
Apple was looking at using Magna to outsource production. The Jaguar I-Pace and Fisker Ocean went that route. How are they doing? Hypebeast naming the Fisker Ocean the worst vehicle ever last week may contribute to Apple's decision to kill the whole project, too.
Tesla is nearing in on the holy grail - they already have 5M vehicles on the road ready to receive a software update to enable full self driving, and that's growing by over 200K every month (and that rate is growing). With v12 of the FSD Beta, the consensus seems to be that the end goal of driverless vehicles that operate everywhere worldwide in any conditions is within sight.
I'd be quite shocked if Apple weren't benchmarking FSD beta - it's an open beta, any of their employees could enroll a personal vehicle in it. 0.5% of the vehicles within the beta have v12 already - most of them are within California. Apple has the resources to pay anyone in the beta to borrow a car, if they want. And upon testing it, they find that Tesla is already at the finish line. They won't be able to catch up on the software front within 4 years.
Another snag - Tesla is already talking with every OEM about adding FSD to their vehicles. So if Apple wanted to enter the market, they'd have to build their own hardware. By the time it's ready, if Tesla hits a wall and can't grow beyond their current rate of 200K vehicles per month, Tesla would already have 15M vehicles running FSD worldwide - more likely they'll be closer to 25M. Apple wouldn't reach where Tesla was in 2028 until a decade later.
Apple was looking at using Magna to outsource production. The Jaguar I-Pace and Fisker Ocean went that route. How are they doing? Hypebeast naming the Fisker Ocean the worst vehicle ever last week may contribute to Apple's decision to kill the whole project, too.
Everyone who is building a car has their watch variants. Huawei, xiaomi, samsung, even oppo vivo has watches.
This just proves my point, apple needs a car, and their car will be profitable
Telsa is not the "be all to end all" of EV car tech. They are just one player in the market and was able to capitalize on an early-mover advantage. Having owned one for 5 years my opinion is their designs and tech have gotten stale. They will most likely have their lunch eaten simultaneously by established giants and companies we have never heard of before that also didn't have the "experience" in the industry. The automobile industry is over 130 years old and there will always be room for more players and upstarts long after we are long gone.
This is zero surprise. I'm really surprised they lasted this long. Fully automatic AI driving is years and years away. I doubt it will be possible without enormous infrastructure upgrades on the roads to go along with it. We know that'll never happen. That leaves apple with a luxury car that won't be as good as others out there. They wouldn't be able to outsource manufacturing to Foxconn.
It's just not their thing.
No harm no foul.
It's just not their thing.
No harm no foul.
Phantom braking hasn't been an issue since they moved from radar. The radar readings would occasionally disagree with the vision readings, causing braking. It hasn't been an issue in years.
That's kind of long overdue. I just cannot see an Apple branded vehicle (whatever energy source) on public road.
We’d build cities that are walkable and bikable.
Right it only took over a decade to realize they were in a sunk cost fallacy...
Did not something in your brain try to stop your finger from hitting the enter/send key?
It makes a lot of sense to me, the reason why not to do this project. The question is, why did they ever think it would work? Apple has many products and divisions but a car seems a long way outside their purview.
They already are losing as we are seeing more and more cars running Android Automotive OS like the Renault 5 announced yesterday which I’d likely to be a big seller.
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I think we’ll have teleportation before autonomous flying cars. Even better, replicators.
Yup.
And then you'd have to buy the wheels…
Got some figures or references to back that up, or is this just a hunch you have?
Just so you know, your average car engine contains several quarts of toxic waste that gets changed out and discarded every few months -- for the entire lifetime of the vehicle. It also regularly needs to get filled up with many gallons of toxic waste on a very frequent basis -- waste that gets very inefficiently incinerated and then pumped right back out the tailpipe into the atmosphere. If you don't believe me, try running yours in an enclosed space for a while and see what happens
Geez and here I was planning to buy a Vision Pro headset just so I could navigate my car. Bummer
I think you're spot on. Very few people seem to have a grasp on where Tesla is at with FSD, and V12 was a huge leap forward.
Internal combustion engine vehicles also lose efficiency in cold weather, albeit not as much (about 10-20% depending on model and driving style vs. 30% for EVs).
My family has bought two EVs (one Kia, one Chevy) and both times we had plenty of options and didn't even consider Tesla.
That is a consideration, but environmental advocates like the Union of Concerned Scientists have studied this and found that the reduction in emissions over the lifetime of the EV will outweigh the emissions involved in creating the EV. I'm not sure what happens when you factor in someone else driving your old ICE car, but I guess if it eliminates the need for a new ICE car it's a win. Is it better to decommission old ICE cars ASAP or keep driving them until they die is probably a better question.
Definitely not true. There are costs to producing new cars and batteries, but the benefits of using them over time is a net win for the environment. That argument reminds me of people who argue against wind power because the windmills kill birds -- pretending to care about the environment but only when opposing something that will be an even bigger benefit for the environment.
Day-oh, dayyyy-oh! Oh wait, that's the banana boat.
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I talked at length with a Tesla rep about switching batteries. He said that they tried it in the last decade between LA and San Francisco and got disappointing results. No one wanted to swap out their new batteries for unknown batteries. Those who had older vehicles were all for it, but not those with relatively new ones. It would take a comprehensive and expensive new battery program that included replacement and some sort of leasing system to make it work.
Chinese claims on range and charging are suspect. I doubt if consumer “complaints” are legit. 😉
Not a surprise to hear this... despite their potential, current electric cars are not that much more environmentally friendly than the vehicles they replace... and the market just doesn't seem to be really going anywhere great at the moment.
A huge proportion of the particulate matter released by cars comes from the tyres and brake systems.
The electric is only as green as the original source it came from.
The manufacturing process is still massively polluting... and the cars are generally more difficult to repair and service (since they are more complicated and require people with special training and certification).
And the batteries in earlier cars are already approaching EOL and costly to replace. Not to mention a lot of people want a new model.... so again a massively polluting manufacturing process is used to replace a "green" car with another "green" car.
🤨
We still have a long way to go to get to that alternative car that fulfils the aim to be environmentally friendly or sustainable. Its a shame it seems Apple may not be a part of that, I hope the other companies still doing their R&D get there soon.
A huge proportion of the particulate matter released by cars comes from the tyres and brake systems.
The electric is only as green as the original source it came from.
The manufacturing process is still massively polluting... and the cars are generally more difficult to repair and service (since they are more complicated and require people with special training and certification).
And the batteries in earlier cars are already approaching EOL and costly to replace. Not to mention a lot of people want a new model.... so again a massively polluting manufacturing process is used to replace a "green" car with another "green" car.
🤨
We still have a long way to go to get to that alternative car that fulfils the aim to be environmentally friendly or sustainable. Its a shame it seems Apple may not be a part of that, I hope the other companies still doing their R&D get there soon.
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Completely unsurprising. Good effort, but great job recognizing the realities of true autonomy. Not to mention the EV market is a big unknown between lower US demand and increasing foreign competition. If you don't follow the market, just read about RIVN and BYD over the last week.