Apple Can't Escape Apple Watch Heart Rate Sensor Patent Lawsuit, Court Rules

[Allyance]

I had a kid work for me back in the late 60's that became the head engineer at MXR who made all kind of neat little effects boxes for musicians and were very popular. He said every time one his devices became popular, the big companies like Roland would copy them. He said it was futile trying to stop them. I am an Apple fan and stock holder, but if they did just copy the patents, then they are no better. I use the heart rate app every day and I am sure there are plenty of other devices that read heart rates too, like sports devices the cyclists wear in the Tour d' France.

 

[jz0309]

Eh… the article clearly says Apple was in discussions for 2 years before they abruptly ended the conversation and decided to use the sensor. They were clearly aware of it.

you were in those discussions and heard them talking about it?
This will now go to trial and there it will be decided whether or not Apple infringed on that patent ...

 

[poked]

There are no fines in patent infringement cases. If found to have infringed, Apple would have to pay damages to the patent owner in the form of lost profits (if applicable) or a reasonable royalty.

Which is hundreds of thousands of dollars in this case since they allegedly used the patent for the heart rate monitor, which is what I’m discussing. They were in talks that ended abruptly, Apple has the technology now, doesn’t that mean it’s either a patent troll or Apple used the tech anyway regulated within the patent and that is why they’re being sued?

again, I’d like to see the court docs of the entire thing. This article really doesn’t say much at all.

 

[sputnikv]

If you patent it, you own that patent. Apple stealing patents is unethical. Lobbying isn’t the issue, it’s that they blatantly stole the technology. I’d like to read the entire court hearing, does anyone have a link?

Strange that you'd like to read the entire court hearing considering that you didn't even read the entirety of the post.

 

[Naraxus]

What a surprise. Apple enters into negotiations with a company, abruptly ends the talks at some point and (innovatively) comes out with (read: steals) tech exactly like the one they were in talks to liscence. Apple ties up smaller company in litigation, smaller company is then forced to settle their thieved tech for pennies on the dollar instead of the FRAND-terms they originally were negotiating with Apple in good faith.

Same as it always is with Apple. Such a scuzzy company with no scruples.

 

[Freida]

Yeah, this is one of the things I don't really like about Apple. They are pretending to be righteous but then they do things like this. In the history of Apple they did it many many times and photocopying was very common. However, this is patent thing which is always different and if you steal a patent willingly especially when you are in talks to "buy" it then you should pay a lot of money.
Patent trolls are of course annoying but not everything is patent troll and not everything makes Apple to be the good guy.

I hope they will get slapped with hefty fine and I would even be for 'stoping the sales' until the licensing is sorted.

That goes for any company of course. The amount of money Apple has - one would think they would be much better at this.

Yeah but you will always find people here defending Apple for unethical practices like this. Anyone who ever sues Apple is deemed a ”patent troll”, like that Brazilian company that was in operation before Steve Jobs was even in middle school and registered/marketed iPhone before such a thing existed in the US, they were not spared the fury of the blind fandom.

Apple, just pay the money. I find ridiculous that they charge companies for using their Lighting Connector based on a 20+ year old technology but do not want to pay for the use of 5G technology and sensors they benefit from, need, and do not own.

 

[WiseAJ]

It's always funny to see these patent holders try to get Apple's products removed from sale while they dispute over money. You would think they would want them to keep being sold so they could get more in damages should they actually manage to win the case.

 

[no_idea]

they will when the government seizes their bank accounts, you think just because they are large they are untouchAble? HAHAHAHA...you should call the IRS and say your not paying taxes anymore....

Yea…totally believe the us government will shut down apple…keep dreaming kiddo

 

[alexandr]

The government doesn’t seize companies’ bank accounts in patent lawsuits.

that is correct — the president does!

 

[mannyvel]

What a surprise. Apple enters into negotiations with a company, abruptly ends the talks at some point and (innovatively) comes out with (read: steals) tech exactly like the one they were in talks to liscence. Apple ties up smaller company in litigation, smaller company is then forced to settle their thieved tech for pennies on the dollar instead of the FRAND-terms they originally were negotiating with Apple in good faith.

Same as it always is with Apple. Such a scuzzy company with no scruples.

Or, Apple's lawyers discover prior art and realize that the patent is invalid.

The courts exists so judgements of the public (you and I included) don't matter.

 

[RogueWarrior65]

It bothers me that people can own patents purely for the purpose of licensing them. Patent owners should be required to make product out of them or sell them off.

 

[I7guy]

What a surprise. Apple enters into negotiations with a company, abruptly ends the talks at some point and (innovatively) comes out with (read: steals) tech exactly like the one they were in talks to liscence. Apple ties up smaller company in litigation, smaller company is then forced to settle their thieved tech for pennies on the dollar instead of the FRAND-terms they originally were negotiating with Apple in good faith.

Same as it always is with Apple. Such a scuzzy company with no scruples.

That’s some good speculation.

 

[fireguy286]

Nobody has accused apple of stealing the technology. They are accused of infringing a patent, that they didn’t know about, and which may or may not be valid and may or may not be enforceable. And if it’s invalid and enforceable, the burden is still on the patent owner to show that it has been infringed. Apple wins most of the patent lawsuits against it (the ones that go to trial), so assuming that Apple infringes, at this early stage, is a bit cart before the horse.

Uh, reading the article is fundamental, they definitely did know about it....

Apple reportedly met with Omni MedSci between 2014 to 2016 to discuss a possible partnership, but Apple is said to have ended discussions and used technology from four Omni patents anyway.

Get the checkbook.

 

[cmaier]

that is correct — the president does!

No. Nobody does.

 

[cmaier]

Uh, reading the article is fundamental, they definitely did know about it....



Get the checkbook.

Read the actual complaint on the court docket. Those negotiations happened after apple was already alleged to infringe.

 

[ronntaylor]

Or, Apple's lawyers discover prior art and realize that the patent is invalid.

The courts exists so judgements of the public (you and I included) don't matter.

This happened with another company making similar allegations. They sued Apple and FitBit. Apple settled, FitBit pressed ahead defending themselves. They initially lost, but ultimately wound up having the patent ruled invalid (IIRC).

This case is interesting as Apple and the University seem to think the patents are not Dr. Islam's and it looks like the case will depend on Apple's assertions to that theory. It wouldn't surprise me that the info in the patent applications gave Apple a workaround and/or option of going with the University for use of some of the claims in the pending patents.

 

[entropys]

I guess it comes down to whether or not Apple used the Omni tech or not. Talking with them fir two years and then ceasing discussions would suggest they went a different way.
It is asking for trouble to just blatantly steal it if they were in talks for two years. I guess the court case will sort it out.

 

[DummyFool]

With all the millions these guys drain into lobbying, can't they just use some to force better patent legislation?

In no way Apple would want that. The big companies are the ones that profit most from the patent system. They patent everything even if it's absurd and then use it as a weapon against smaller entities that often do not have the same legal ressources.

 

[tgwaste]

Great. Apple will have to pay and then their greedy disgusting execs will pass these charges onto us.

 

[Tagbert]

What a surprise. Apple enters into negotiations with a company, abruptly ends the talks at some point and (innovatively) comes out with (read: steals) tech exactly like the one they were in talks to liscence. Apple ties up smaller company in litigation, smaller company is then forced to settle their thieved tech for pennies on the dollar instead of the FRAND-terms they originally were negotiating with Apple in good faith.

Same as it always is with Apple. Such a scuzzy company with no scruples.

I’m so glad that you have been able to hear the evidence and listen to all of the testimony and then make a judgement based on your extensive legal experience and training…. Or not.

 

[gramateur]

"pleased by not surprised"

Is a [sic] missing?

 

[sw1tcher]

Apple should argue that Omni MedSci's patents is for accurate heart rate data. Since Apple's heart rate data is always different and thus inconsistent, the case should be thrown out.

 

[acader]

If you patent it, you own that patent. Apple stealing patents is unethical. Lobbying isn’t the issue, it’s that they blatantly stole the technology. I’d like to read the entire court hearing, does anyone have a link?

It is not possible for any company to fully verify *every single* patent before launching a product. Companies are made of people and 2 people can have "similar" ideas. Therefore any company is open to get sued for infringing. If you lookup the patent lawsuits, you'll find everything from strollers to phones. The bigger the company (apple, Microsoft, Oracle), the larger the press they get. "Stealing" a patent is not easy.

 

[Digital Dude]

Apple has changed since the passing of Steve Jobs, and this is a good example. IMO, Apple is more ruthless on matters like this. And on the product side, this has changed as well. Sure, a lot of newer folks within the last 10-years won’t notice, but if you’re one of the dinosaurs like myself, it’s plain to see. Gone are the days of camping out at Starbucks to show off your new Apple gear, and everyone in the Silicon Valley driving BMW 5 series just to remain relevant. I know because I worked right down the street from Apple HQ in the 80s and 90s. Sure, I’m still an Apple fan boy; so to speak, and I have all the latest gear, but it’s just not the same. The distinction between other competing products is narrowing.

 

[jav6454]

If you patent it, you own that patent. Apple stealing patents is unethical. Lobbying isn’t the issue, it’s that they blatantly stole the technology. I’d like to read the entire court hearing, does anyone have a link?

Full disclosure, I am not advocating for either party. That said:

1a. Have you read and understood the entirety of the patents in question from Omni?
1b. Have you read and understood how Apple's patents and licenses for their heart rate system work?
2. Have you understood how Apple actually makes their heart rate sensor/system work?
3. Have you truly understood how each approach to obtaining said measurement overlaps?

It's pretty easy to judge on an article that one party or the other is at fault. After all, in the US justice system, the defendant is innocent until proven guilty. Hence, the burden of proof is entirely on Omni's side, not Apple. Apple really needs to show how their current in-house tech is unique from Omni's and how their licenses allow them reach their system's integration.

Calling either a thief is simply uninformed at best.