Apple Car Schematics Reportedly Presented to Japanese Auto Parts Maker in 2020

[jlc1978]

What is range with a reasonable tow for the Cybertruck? It won't be 500 miles..... 30+ minute stops to charge (after waiting in line for the chargers - which WILL be an issue) every 150 miles will get old fast.

For a work truck, 150 miles may not be as much of an issue, since many won’t be driven that much daily so overnight charging is possible. A utility, for example, could outfit filed staff with them and install chargers at worker’s homes, to replace gas vehicles. Someone towing something between cities would have an issue. As always, YMMV.

Can you replace the bed on the Cybertruck? Just accessing the front of the bed without having to climb over the contents in the rest of the bed is annoying enough. The design was not created by someone who uses a truck like one. The design is not as useful as, say, the Ford F150 EV.

That’s one problem with tech companies, they let design override function to be “innovative” and cool. They want a product that gets awards for design, and if function suffers so what.

Ford did it right with the F150 EV. It looks like a truck, performs like a truck, and will sell like a truck. Ford is smart enough to not mess with what made the F150 he best selling vehicle in the US. They focused on using the electric motor’s torque benefits to eliver more power and added features such as charging that will appeal to craftsmen.

Apple would be smart to hire some of the best car designers to develop their car.

 

[jjcs]

For a work truck, 150 miles may not be as much of an issue, since many won’t be driven that much daily so overnight charging is possible. A utility, for example, could outfit filed staff with them and install chargers at worker’s homes, to replace gas vehicles. Someone towing something between cities would have an issue. As always, YMMV.

EV trucks are a good fit for utilities or short range deliveries. Not so much for hauling a stock trailer.

That’s one problem with tech companies, they let design override function to be “innovative” and cool. They want a product that gets awards for design, and if function suffers so what.

Ford did it right with the F150 EV. It looks like a truck, performs like a truck, and will sell like a truck. Ford is smart enough to not mess with what made the F150 he best selling vehicle in the US. They focused on using the electric motor’s torque benefits to eliver more power and added features such as charging that will appeal to craftsmen.

Apple would be smart to hire some of the best car designers to develop their car.

We'll see if they do that. Seems an odd business to jump into at this point. Smartphones were a more obvious fit, as they're basically a computer with a battery and a radio. Apple isn't a telecom.

 

[Philip_S]

Range anxiety

Since most households, especially those that can afford apple products, have more than one car and most people drive less than 50 miles daily (IIRC the US average is much lower), you can have EVs for all but one car for now.

A the rest of the world's car companies get serious about EVs Tesla will find themselves in a very tough competitive spot.

Especially since then they’ll stop buying EV/fuel efficiency fleet credits from tesla.

 

[jlc1978]

EV trucks are a good fit for utilities or short range deliveries. Not so much for hauling a stock trailer.

That' the big issue to overcome - making it as easy as an ICE vehicle for long trips.

Another area where electric power could find a niche is in heavy construction equipment, given the tremendous torque and the lack of a need for long distances and less weight concerns.

We'll see if they do that. Seems an odd business to jump into at this point. Smartphones were a more obvious fit, as they're basically a computer with a battery and a radio. Apple isn't a telecom.

I agree. Apple may just be testing the waters and seeing how they might enter the auto market. Given Apple isn't in the business of mass market low price products they'd likely be competing with marques such as BMW, Porsche, and Audi at least; all of which have loyal followings and EVs of their own.

Too me, a more logical path is developing technology to incorporate into other manufacturer's vehicles, extending Apple's eco system beyond just CarPlay. The problem with that I see is the'd be dealing with companies who, much like Apple, are used to driving supplier prices down and tightly controlling costs. Apple is unlikely to want to negotiate with another version of themselves. I would think Amazon would do that before Apple, as evidenced by Alexa going to the moon.

Since most households, especially those that can afford apple products, have more than one car and most people drive less than 50 miles daily (IIRC the US average is much lower), you can have EVs for all but one car for now.

Once a charging system is built out, such as in Portugal, where you can charge your car at "gas" stations or restaurants while using a rest room, eating, etc. that will be overcome as well. EVs are where ICE vehicles were in th early 1900's. The future but lacking the infrastructure to be widely useful. That will change as a charging infrastructure is built out.

Especially since then they’ll stop buying EV/fuel efficiency fleet credits from tesla.

Plus the battery technology and power control can be adapted for other uses as it gets better and lighter, for example light aircraft and pleasure boats to start. BMW, Daimler and Ford could return to their marine and aviation roots.

 

[valentinjesse]

"Lose badly to Tesla"

Apple develops hardware and software
Apple makes their own cpu's and gpu's
Apple makes their own sound systems
Apple can integrate the best and most secure OS, ios/macos along with best tablet on earth, Ipad, and allow everyone to access millions of apps
Apple Maps
Apple security
Siri
Apple Pay
Icloud
Automator/Shortcuts (if this then that)
etc

It's a software world and Apple will smash Tesla in this regard. Very few things to outsource, if any...

+ $200B in cash

 

[jjcs]

"Lose badly to Tesla"

Apple develops hardware and software
Apple makes their own cpu's and gpu's
Apple makes their own sound systems
Apple can integrate the best and most secure OS, ios/macos along with best tablet on earth, Ipad, and allow everyone to access millions of apps
Apple Maps
Apple security
Siri
Apple Pay
Icloud
Automator/Shortcuts (if this then that)
etc

It's a software world and Apple will smash Tesla in this regard. Very few things to outsource, if any...

+ $200B in cash

Apple actually directly manufactures very little. None of it heavy manufacturing. Millions of apps? Best and most secure OS? Really? It's a decent desktop OS, but you willing to bet your life on it?

Without the hardware, the software is useless. "Very few things to oursource".... uh huh.

 

[jjcs]

Plus the battery technology and power control can be adapted for other uses as it gets better and lighter, for example light aircraft and pleasure boats to start. BMW, Daimler and Ford could return to their marine and aviation roots.

There are already auxiliary power systems for some sailboats that are electric, but light aircraft with any practical payload is a long ways off.

 

[PrecisionGem]

The average daily mileage in the US is just 40 miles. So for most people, range is not an issue and in fact for many charging at home they might never need to “fill up” away from home ever again. Charging time is dropping too. The Hundai Ioniq 5 now charges 10%-80% in just 18 minutes. Range is increasing too. The Lucid will have a range of 500 miles. The record cross county cannonball run for an EV using standard public chargers is just 44 hours! Things are rapidly evolving. Expect Apple to jump in once the dust settles.

I have a Bolt, have had it for 3 years, and charging has never been an issue. I charge almost exclusively at home over night. But I have a garage. What would happen if almost everyone owned an EV. How would the people who live in apartments, and park on the street, sometimes a block or two from their apartments charge? Would we have extension cords draped all over the the sidewalks and streets? Can the power grid support these millions of cars being charged at once?

 

[jlc1978]

There are already auxiliary power systems for some sailboats that are electric, but light aircraft with any practical payload is a long ways off.

Passenger and cargo will take a while, but electric a/c are here and there are niches today they can start to fill. Flight training a/c, for example, since they only require 2 pilots and flights are generally not long duration until you start doing cross countries. They can be recharged between flights, and for cross counties if charging facilities are in place that's not an issue, especially since you aren't on a strict schedule. Rolls Royce is doing some interesting R/D.

I have a Bolt, have had it for 3 years, and charging has never been an issue. I charge almost exclusively at home over night. But I have a garage. What would happen if almost everyone owned an EV. How would the people who live in apartments, and park on the street, sometimes a block or two from their apartments charge? Would we have extension cords draped all over the the sidewalks and streets?

It's a bit of a chicken and the egg problem. If there is enough demand, apartments with garages can build out charging stations and charge or charging, creating a new revenue stream and meeting tenant demand.

Sreet parking will be an issue and made more challenging if charging stations start to be put on streets.

Can the power grid support these millions of cars being charged at once?

A properly designed smart charging grid for vehicles would help control demand. A utility could selectively turn on chargers throughout the night to control system load while still charging all the cars. Smart chargers could estimate required charge times and report it to the utility to schedule when a particular car gets charged. That would help minimize demand peaks and the need to run a peaking plant. Increased electriication, use of solar, etc. will require creating a much smarter grid.

 

[Tagbert]

I have a Bolt, have had it for 3 years, and charging has never been an issue. I charge almost exclusively at home over night. But I have a garage. What would happen if almost everyone owned an EV. How would the people who live in apartments, and park on the street, sometimes a block or two from their apartments charge? Would we have extension cords draped all over the the sidewalks and streets? Can the power grid support these millions of cars being charged at once?

Even the most optimistic estimates for EV adoption assume a gradual increase over many years as new car sales shift toward EVs. Existing ICE cars will still be around for 10-20 years after the last volume sales ends. The electrical power providers will have years and decades to build out capacity. Apartment owners will find that people are increasingly asking for charging connections and can start adding that to new buildings and retrofitting existing. Even for on street parking, cities may add on-street charging or they may encourage fast charging stations. likely both. no one approach will cover all needs.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Even the most optimistic estimates for EV adoption assume a gradual increase over many years as new car sales shift toward EVs. Existing ICE cars will still be around for 10-20 years after the last volume sales ends. The electrical power providers will have years and decades to build out capacity. Apartment owners will find that people are increasingly asking for charging connections and can start adding that to new buildings and retrofitting existing. Even for on street parking, cities may add on-street charging or they may encourage fast charging stations. likely both. no one approach will cover all needs.

The problem with even fast charging is that it is way more expensive than charging at home, plus it's not that fast. The other day I took my ICE to Costco for gas, they have maybe 10 lines of pumps, and each line had about 6 or more cars in it. The lines did move along, and I got my gas in maybe 10 minutes at the most. Now picture these were all electric cars. Each car taking 20 minutes or more to charge. In that case it would have taken me almost 2.5 hours to get charged. Also it is not recommended to use the fast chargers often as they degrade your battery. Basically they should be used when taking a longer trip.

In my neighborhood of town houses, most people are parking on the street. I have a garage, so I park the Bolt in there with it plugged in all the time. I can't picture the city putting charging stations all along the street.

Joe Biden claims that in 8 years most cars sold will be electric. I think this will go as well as his surrender and retreat from Afghanistan.

 

[Tagbert]

The problem with even fast charging is that it is way more expensive than charging at home, plus it's not that fast. The other day I took my ICE to Costco for gas, they have maybe 10 lines of pumps, and each line had about 6 or more cars in it. The lines did move along, and I got my gas in maybe 10 minutes at the most. Now picture these were all electric cars. Each car taking 20 minutes or more to charge. In that case it would have taken me almost 2.5 hours to get charged. Also it is not recommended to use the fast chargers often as they degrade your battery. Basically they should be used when taking a longer trip.

In my neighborhood of town houses, most people are parking on the street. I have a garage, so I park the Bolt in there with it plugged in all the time. I can't picture the city putting charging stations all along the street.

Joe Biden claims that in 8 years most cars sold will be electric. I think this will go as well as his surrender and retreat from Afghanistan.

I do not see most people using commercial charging stations frequently. Those with dedicated parking will be able to charge there. Yes, it will more complicated to work out for those who park on the street and no one solution is clearly best at this point. We do have some time to figure this out. That 8 year goal is just for ending the sale of new ICE vehicles. That doesn't mean that we will fully transition to EVs in that time. We are looking at 20+ years before the long tail of used ICE vehicles tapers off.

"I think this will go as well as his surrender and retreat from Afghanistan."
If you mean initially painful but ultimately inevitable and necessary , then yes.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

If beating Tesla is the goal, then they've already failed. Somebody needs to leapfrog Tesla in a Henry Ford way as far as cost. Very few people today can afford or even want to afford a Tesla. Since I do not live in California or New York, the only ones I've even seen are owned by tourists. There is a finite limit to the number of millionaires and billionaires. I don't see the long term purpose of Apple making a splash with a car that is not only ground breaking in automation, but at the same time, let's not forget, people do like to DRIVE cars at times for just fun? This is the part that Tim Cook will screw up. He's likely never raced a car in his entire life, but I'll bet Steve Jobs has a few times without anyone knowing.

 

[PrecisionGem]

"I think this will go as well as his surrender and retreat from Afghanistan."
If you mean initially painful but ultimately inevitable and necessary , then yes.

I would call 13 Americans dead, many others wounded, hundreds left behind, billions in state of the art military equipment left behind a bit more than "initially painful". Not to mention arming a bunch of terrorist with billions in the finest military equipment. Was this necessary? I would think any 10 year old could have come up with a better plan.