Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'It Feels to Me China is Getting Coronavirus Under Control'

[ericwn]

The real question is how does a country with no independent media, that knowingly steals other companies trade secrets and know how, that allows unfettered stealing of patented technology, that put tariiffs on products without reciprocation, that forces technology sharing in order for companies to set up shop there, and that flouts every single maritime law, ever become and stay a member of the WTO?
The West sold itself out for access to a billion consumers.

It will be forever a piece in the history books how capitalism’s greed and resulting ignorant blindness led straight to China’s rise.

 

[0920872]

...defensive much? No one said everyone in rural areas is a “poor, fat, smoking, country bumpkin.” But poverty, obesity, and smoking are all, in fact, more prevalent in rural areas versus urban areas. That’s obviously false. The person you were replying to linked sources for their claims. Rural areas also tend to be older, which also increases risk.

I live in a highly rural area and I’m not kidding myself about the issues that these factors present, especially in combination with each other, along with infrastructural issues, should there be an outbreak. There are fewer resources available, in general, to treat people who are demographically prone to get sicker. Sure, it may not spread like wildfire in rural areas, but those to whom it does spread may have a much worse time with the disease compared to urban areas. That’s all that was being said.

The protests may really screw rural America on so many levels:
1. People being tracked without their consent (this is the internet, so no comment)
2. People who were relatively isolated make sure they and their communities get exposed
3. They become the very reason lockdowns will get prolonged
4. They will protest these very lockdowns
5. They'll fare worse than most others
6. They'll blame someone other than themselves

 

[davidjytang]

It’s not 7.5%.

All the sentiment from a month ago is still pretty much true. This is definitely fear mongering. Young, healthy people aren’t dying at any rate close to 7.5%. That’s ridiculous. China’s numbers have improved. There are some new cases, but the flu is still way worse with what we know today.

You’re extrapolating.

Wow, this did not age well.

 

[0920872]

Wow, this did not age well.

This whole thread aged like milk.

 

[Baymowe335]

Wow, this did not age well.

Over time, the flu has Still killed and infected way more people, even with a vaccine. China has improved...economy is opening again, so of course there are more cases. We are building more immunity and death rates have slowed.

This will be a non issue soon...the death and gloom was overstated, even with what we know now. The virus doesn’t kill healthy people without underlying conditions. Much of what the non alarmists said has turned out right.

Go find the stats on deaths and cases of pneumonia, flu, strep, and other non covid 19 viruses. People die of all kind of stuff. This just has the backing of the media reporting every single case. If they reported every case of every other virus or illness, you’d be scared of those too.

 

[0920872]

Over time, the flu has Still killed and infected way more people, even with a vaccine. China has improved...economy is opening again, so of course there are more cases. We are building more immunity and death rates have slowed.

It is impressive how many fallacies you managed to fit in a single paragraph.
1. You are comparing hundred-some years worth of documented flu mortality with a novel virus that was described 8 months ago. The only relevant way to make a comparison is annual mortality, but man, 3-4 months into this on the western hemisphere, and you still haven't figured it out how much higher that is with SARS-CoV2?!
2. COVID and Flu coinfection can easily happen... So the two aren't even an entirely separate issue.
3. China's reporting of cases and mortality is so questionable, I really don't know what to make of their data.
4. Death rates dropped because of infection prevention measures (i.e. social distancing and masks), replenished health care resources and summer weather. Last time I checked even Sweden had an immunity level <10%. You need 60-70% for herd immunity. So immunity being built is practically a negligible factor at the present (also see below).

This will be a non issue soon...the death and gloom was overstated, even with what we know now. The virus doesn’t kill healthy people without underlying conditions. Much of what the non alarmists said has turned out right.

You are basing this on what? The duration of immunity is unknown, but the most likely it is transient rather than life-long. If people start losing their antibodies after about 42 **WEEKS** like with other coronaviridae, then herd immunity cannot be achieved and COVID outbreaks become a seasonally recurrent issue. Even if we have a good vaccine, if you have to get a shot every 1-2 year, planning a vaccination campaign of this magnitude is no small task.

The virus can kill anyone, just with variable likelihood. About 20% of the world population has the underlying conditions you're talking about. We ALL knew this, you can even look up my comments from Feb/March in this very thread. Lastly, the mortality could also be worsened by the above-mentioned flu coinfection. Also, just because you don't die, as we learned in the past months SARS-CoV-2 messes with the coagulation cascade so badly that young people can develop thromboembolic complications like large vessel strokes...that I'm sure you'd prefer to avoid.

Go find the stats on deaths and cases of pneumonia, flu, strep, and other non covid 19 viruses. People die of all kind of stuff. This just has the backing of the media reporting every single case. If they reported every case of every other virus or illness, you’d be scared of those too.

This is also absolutely false. Name an infectious pathogen other than SARS-CoV-2 that killed 100K+ Americans in 3 months in this century.

I'm baffled.

 

[Seanm87]

Over time, the flu has Still killed and infected way more people, even with a vaccine. China has improved...economy is opening again, so of course there are more cases. We are building more immunity and death rates have slowed.

This will be a non issue soon...the death and gloom was overstated, even with what we know now. The virus doesn’t kill healthy people without underlying conditions. Much of what the non alarmists said has turned out right.

Go find the stats on deaths and cases of pneumonia, flu, strep, and other non covid 19 viruses. People die of all kind of stuff. This just has the backing of the media reporting every single case. If they reported every case of every other virus or illness, you’d be scared of those too.

It has killed plenty of people without underlying conditions. Of all ages.

 

[Baymowe335]

It has killed plenty of people without underlying conditions. Of all ages.

Post the data.
[automerge]1592520316[/automerge]

It is impressive how many fallacies you managed to fit in a single paragraph.
1. You are comparing hundred-some years worth of documented flu mortality with a novel virus that was described 8 months ago. The only relevant way to make a comparison is annual mortality, but man, 3-4 months into this on the western hemisphere, and you still haven't figured it out how much higher that is with SARS-CoV2?!
2. COVID and Flu coinfection can easily happen... So the two aren't even an entirely separate issue.
3. China's reporting of cases and mortality is so questionable, I really don't know what to make of their data.
4. Death rates dropped because of infection prevention measures (i.e. social distancing and masks), replenished health care resources and summer weather. Last time I checked even Sweden had an immunity level <10%. You need 60-70% for herd immunity. So immunity being built is practically a negligible factor at the present (also see below).




You are basing this on what? The duration of immunity is unknown, but the most likely it is transient rather than life-long. If people start losing their antibodies after about 42 months like with other coronaviridae, then herd immunity cannot be achieved and COVID outbreaks become a seasonally recurrent issue. Even if we have a good vaccine, if you have to get a shot every 1-2 year, planning a vaccination campaign of this magnitude is no small task.

The virus can kill anyone, just with variable likelihood. About 20% of the world population has the underlying conditions you're talking about. We ALL knew this, you can even look up my comments from Feb/March in this very thread. Lastly, the mortality could also be worsened by the above-mentioned flu coinfection. Also, just because you don't die, as we learned in the past months SARS-CoV-2 messes with the coagulation cascade so badly that young people can develop thromboembolic complications like large vessel strokes...that I'm sure you'd prefer to avoid.



This is also absolutely false. Name an infectious pathogen other than SARS-CoV-2 that killed 100K+ Americans in 3 months in this century.

I'm baffled.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a large number, I said people die of viruses all the time. This is a new one, so it’s been worse. Granted. But it’s nothing near the 2.1M Americans pounded by the fear mongering media, and no, you don’t get to say 2M lives were saved bc of social distancing. The 2.1M was a number thrown out based on linear math and flawed logic. Social distancing isn’t the only factor, so let’s be serious. We have some numbers and while not great, they are nothing near as severe as projected and are at least somewhat comparable to a really bad flu season, though still worse.

We also know deaths are not skyrocketing with the reopening of the economy. This is huge and sadly means the people at the biggest risk have already passed away. It can’t kill at the same rate now and it isn’t.

The flu killed over 60,000 Americans in a season and no one cared. It also continues to kill, worldwide, year after year. With a vaccine. With heard immunity. Yes, this is bad, but we probably should have socially distanced and worn masks with the flu...no joke. We could have saved lives there too.

And again, what is your suggestion? We take precautions and move on. You can’t stay inside until there is a vaccine, right? Or can you? Give me a break. We’ve just been over the fact vaccines aren’t even 100% or close to that Effective.

I don’t believe some of the reporting in America either. If a retirement community gets an outbreak of Covid, they are counting every death a covid death. Likely wrong.

 

[0920872]

I didn’t say it wasn’t a large number, I said people die of viruses all the time. This is a new one, so it’s been worse. Granted. But it’s nothing near the 2.1M Americans pounded by the fear mongering media, and no, you don’t get to say 2M lives were saved bc of social distancing. The 2.1M was a number thrown out based on linear math and flawed logic.

If you looked at your own flu numbers you could also see the following:

• The 2017-18 season had an estimated 45million symptomatic cases of flu with 61K mortalities.
• The 2020 COVID season thus far had 2 million confirmed cases and 118K deaths and we are barely half way in.

If we had the same extent of population exposure as with the Flu, you can easily get a COVID mortality number above 2M. This, if we follow your logic on the Flu... If we project the current numbers, COVID will be the third commonest cause of death in the USA in 2020.

Social distancing isn’t the only factor, so let’s be serious.

Read my post again... Nevertheless, the issue with public health is that the more effective the interventions, the more people doubt their necessity.

We have some numbers and while not great, they are nothing near as severe as projected and are at least somewhat comparable to a really bad flu season, though still worse.

As comparable as a cat to a tiger.

The flu killed over 60,000 Americans in a season and no one cared.

No one YOU KNOW cared.

Yes, this is bad, but we probably should have socially distanced and worn masks with the flu...no joke. We could have saved lives there too.

We agree on this. At least symptomatic people should have worn masks like in many Asian countries.

And again, what is your suggestion? We take precautions and move on. You can’t stay inside until there is a vaccine, right? Or can you? Give me a break. We’ve just been over the fact vaccines aren’t even 100% or close to that Effective.

My suggestion is to follow the above infection control measures and adjust workplaces accordingly. The lockdown (should have ideally) served the purpose to decompress healthcare, establish testing protocols and safety guidelines and allow community to adjust to these. The Swedes counting on herd immunity was a huge gamble that is still not over, given the unknown duration of immunity.

We also know deaths are not skyrocketing with the reopening of the economy. This is huge and sadly means the people at the biggest risk have already passed away. It can’t kill at the same rate now and it isn’t.

It's impressive that you manage to pull this conclusion out of your hat while concurrently criticizing others' predictions. We just committed to the largest scale behavioral adjustment the US had seen probably since the last world war, but you say that A) population biology has changed, B) all high-risk people died (that would be like 6-7M just in the US), C) the virus biology had changed. Impressive.

I don’t believe some of the reporting in America either. If a retirement community gets an outbreak of Covid, they are counting every death a covid death. Likely wrong.

Sauce?

 

[Seanm87]

Post the data.

Why? Will it make you change your mind? No it won’t. You’ll just say ”they may have had undiagnosed conditions”.

I can literally see where this is going before I even start.

 

[0920872]

Why? Will it make you change your mind? No it won’t. You’ll just say ”they may have had undiagnosed conditions”.

I can literally see where this is going before I even start.

There were countries that literally posted a list daily of underlying conditions of those passed away. It was nauseating.