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I like my apple products and the family has a myriad of them. That you decided Apples products weren't for you and voted with your dollars - bravo. You can read the writing on the wall on where Apple is going and if one doesn't like the direction, good thing there is competition.

As far as the share price, has there been any time in the history of the stock market when the share price has never fallen? Everybody laughed at Tesla and while they may be having some difficulties they are the benchmark. Mercedes sells the EQS for $150,000. There will be those who can afford an Apple Car and will get one because. Your opinion of AR is irrelevant. We'll see what the market opinion is and if it aligns with your opinion.

I was around when SJ was in charge but we got into Apple late in the game. Back them Apple products were priced obscenely expensive. (contrary to your assertion they were reasonable). They even had to reduce the selling price of the iphone 1. There was only one reason Apple reduced the price...and it wasn't because the iphone 1 was the bargain of the year.
Apple will start selling less as more and more customers realise the products are just no longer worth the price.

I would love AR to be successful but it’s been in the market for nearly a decade and nothing has caught on. Google Glass is basically what Apple headset it aiming for. For AR to work it has to be something that’s out of your way and unnoticeable.

If you thought prices back then were obscenely expensive then you you must agree todays prices are even worse.

When the original iPhone came out buying out of contract sim free was very rare. That’s why the price was high. Prices went down when networks started subsidising it slightly. These days it’s common practice.
 
can you please list these products ' like the MacBook Pro 16 you can get something £1000 cheaper and have far better performance"? I wasted thousands trying to find them.

especially the far better performance part please. Also with better screens, trackpads, battery life and performance of mains.
Anything with Intels latest i9 and Nvidia 4000 series GPUs.
 
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It must be heartwarming for all those people who have paid inflated prices with all the price hikes to learn Tim earned an enormous salary. Almost makes it worthwhile having a £150 increase on an iPhone .
I honestly couldn't care less, and I really don't understand why it seems to rankle so many people here.
 
How about he decrease that to $5M and spread the $95M in RSUs to the employees progressively from the bottom up? I think this sort of thing should happen all over. CEO compensation is stupidly high at this point. Does he really need $100M a year FFS? No one should ever think they are that special compared to the rest of the company IMO.
 
Made off the backs of child labor (some would say slavery) to get our cobalt. Tim needs to address Siddharth Kara's allegations that there is no such thing as "clean cobalt."
 
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Apple will start selling less as more and more customers realise the products are just no longer worth the price.
Apple products aren’t worth it, to you. They are worth it to others.
I would love AR to be successful but it’s been in the market for nearly a decade and nothing has caught on. Google Glass is basically what Apple headset it aiming for. For AR to work it has to be something that’s out of your way and unnoticeable.

If you thought prices back then were obscenely expensive then you you must agree todays prices are even worse.
What’s the inflation adjusted price in the US between the iPhone one and the iPhone 14 pro max? The pro max costs virtually the same as my other Xs max. I’m not going through this every product. Get what you believe is worth it to you.
When the original iPhone came out buying out of contract sim free was very rare. That’s why the price was high. Prices went down when networks started subsidising it slightly. These days it’s common practice.
Contracts came into okay after the iPhone 1. Hiding the true cost of phones.
 
There's no denying they're doing great on the spreadsheets which at the end of the day is what matters, but the company is much more soulless now and lacks the drive and polish it did before. I don't dislike Tim Cook's leadership, but the 'It just works' Apple used to excel at is not here anymore. A lot more stuff to think about when using the products, and most importantly the products gimped by design to derive max profit. The latest release iPad 10th gen is the pinnacle of this. Watch this beautiful animation about Apple's philosophy from 2013. I don't find it rings true in recent years. It doesn't feel like they're creating products around intention with how they want the user to feel and experience. They create them to raise the prices of others and fill a lineup and the 10th gen of iPad for example is unnecessary. iPhone SE, the whole AirPods business with the AirPods 2 and 3. It's all a pricing ladder, all carefully made around the idea of lack in the product below the juuuuust a bit more expensive other one. I can't look at the iPad 10, iPhone SE, AirPods 2nd gen, the Apple Watch Series 3 they were selling until recently and think all that was made/kept in the lineup with intent for incredible user experience, because it wasn't.
I disagree with the above opinion, which is all it is. Others may think the same.... or not.
The ones that mined for the battery in your devices.
Which ones are that?
Not Apple's directly, but the companies they obtain parts through. It's definitely part of the reason Apple is so big but doesn't own any factories of theirs like the other manufacturers.
An extremely smart move by Apple.
The responsibility would be on them and it's bad for image. Especially with batteries, but everything that requires any sort of mining. The human rights violations in that field are well-known.
So, you are saying this is a global problem.
Child labor is also not out of the question. A lot of this is happening in Congo and while it's Congo's legislation at fault, it's also Apple's for taking advantage of that - it's an abuse of power, and an ugly one at that.
Be careful though, this is not a political forum. And we all are aware hyperbole travels faster on the internet than light.
It's not just Apple that does this, but they're the most vocal with their marketing talk about being all green and fair.
And they are. Even if in one area they aren't, this is a process not an absolute benchmark.
Their attempts to greenwash tech are not okay with me, too. Nothing about tech is green. It's a very dirty business. Granted, they are probably not the worst offender. But we can't act like that's not happening.
Know what is also a dirty little secret? Electric vehicles, but that is a topic for another day and another thread.
 
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A $1 salary with no other compensation except for some free devices would be a more meaningful gesture. He already has more money than he will ever spend in his remaining time. At this level these people aren’t driven by money anyway.
He can't do that, he would be breaking several labor law violations.

They're driven by gaining more money, but not to make purchases, simply as a number. Its dumb.
 
The question is are these rankings really relevant? I say no, but everybody’s mileage will vary.
They're very weird. I worked for Wegmans corporate years ago which is supposed to be a great place to work. It was the most siloed, bickery place I've ever worked and felt like being in high school. I'm sure some places here are great to work at, but the move back to the office would have pissed off a bunch of people there too.
 
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I have a problem with the whole spread the wealth attitude people have. An employee at the Apple Store doesn’t have the skills or qualifications to be a CEO of a company. ...
First, how would we know? Jobs was a university drop-out and a hippie. On the face of it I think many would dismiss his potential were he to start a company now in the state he was in when he co-founded Apple. Instead, money these days floods toward people, like Elizabeth Holmes, based on very superficial and ultimately irrelevant considerations. Second, I am pretty sure Tim Cook doesn't have the skills or qualifications to repair Apple equipment. Does that mean a repair person at an Apple Store should get paid 300 times Cook's salary?

It seems to me that in the US most companies are run for the managers and the stockholders, the customers and workers be damned. I think Cook was right to take a reduction in pay, but perhaps for the wrong reason (falling stock price, rather than reducing inequality in Apple).
 
minus 40% pay cut seems like alot to anyones annual pay."Based on shareholder feedback..." well shareholders did well before the 2022. maybe they should have sold before the markets tumbled. mr cook is the heart and soul of aapl now (formerly held by mr jobs) and i think he has done his due diligence with aapl as a whole. yes he still will make some 49 million in 2023 but is a 40% pay cut fair? man if i got a 40% pay cut i would quit. but mr cook will still hang in there as aapl heart and soul for some time and i think he is the right guy to be there
 
Innovation died, gambling with size increases on the products doesn't warrant any increases..right call to trim the pork..
 
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Innovation died, gambling with size increases on the products doesn't warrant any increases..right call to trim the pork..
So shareholders recommended and Cook concurred, to lower his compensation, because of his inability (according to the above) to innovate within Apple. So basically he's rich and doesn't care anymore is the above subtext.
 
I honestly couldn't care less, and I really don't understand why it seems to rankle so many people here.

Because I don’t like seeing a £150 price hike in 12 months whilst the wealthiest people who work for the company have articles published stating their mammoth earnings. Call me old fashioned but I’d rather not have the mick out of me on the goods I’ve been buying for many years. If you want to see your iPhone go up £150 every year then good for you.
 
I honestly couldn't care less, and I really don't understand why it seems to rankle so many people here.
It’s not the salary he was earning, it’s the fact if Apple can pay that much to Tim they can certainly absorb some of the inflation/currency fluctuations instead of passing that onto the customer. They’d still be making close to their 40% profit margin. Also they can clearly afford to lower that profit margin slightly and reduce the prices.
 
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Apple products aren’t worth it, to you. They are worth it to others.

What’s the inflation adjusted price in the US between the iPhone one and the iPhone 14 pro max? The pro max costs virtually the same as my other Xs max. I’m not going through this every product. Get what you believe is worth it to you.

Contracts came into okay after the iPhone 1. Hiding the true cost of phones.
More and more people in these forums complaining about prices.

Apple has kept prices similar in the US, if you’re in the US that’s great. Outside, everywhere else they’re increasing prices and an unsustainable level. It will snap back and hit them soon. People won’t be wanting to pay £2000 for an iPhone in the UK.

Here in the UK phones are not actually subsidised at all now. The cost is spread over 24-36 month contracts and you usually end up paying slightly more.
 
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It seems like the only main criticism people can muster here is price. I can also counter that the existence of cheaper, entry-level offerings does not preclude one from choosing to spend more for a better product, and at least I have the option of spending money on a solution which works for me.

I got my first Apple products in 2011, the year Steve Jobs died. Since then, I have gone on to embrace the ecosystem in its entirety. I can't speak from personal experience what using Apple products was like prior to that, but I can in the very least say that they still continue to work great for me.

Here's an overview of the various milestones for me. They don't represent all the apple products I have purchased over the last decade, but I would like to speak as someone who continues to use Apple products because they do work great for me. Not 100% of the time, but I doubt windows and android would be hassle-free either.

2011 - got a 27" iMac (my first Apple product), iPhone 4s
2012 - iPad 3, MBA, Apple TVs to start using in the classroom (this was when I decided to go all-in)
2015 - Apple TV supports peer to peer airplay, removing the need for a dedicated router in the classroom
2016 - 9.7" iPad Pro with Apple Pencil. Writing experience with the Apple Pencil was great, and I wasn't at all bothered by the charging mechanism. Apple Watch. AirPods.
2017 - 5k iMac, 8+
2018 - 11" iPad Pro (which I continue to use even today). Also went all in with the 2nd gen pencil and Smart Keyboard. Love the keyboard, unfortunately, its durability leaves much to be desired.
2019 - Apple Watch series 5 (still using to this day)
2020 - M1 MBA
2021 - iPhone 13 Pro Max

Also, Apple One.

Not everything Apple makes is for me (though it's close enough), and I don't expect Apple to solely cater to me and me alone.
It’s not only the unjustified price increases.

During Steve Jobs’ reign there was very little product fragmentation, something which helped bankrupt Apple before his return. When he returned to Apple he terminated every product and started fresh. He focussed on a consumer range and professional range.

The consumer line was generally made from polycarbonate plastic, consisting of one desktop and one laptop (iMac and iBooks)

For the pro range it was titanium to begin with and then moved to aluminium though the Power Mac (now Mac Pro was initially plastic). There was the Power Mac and PowerBooks.

He kept things simple. Unlike Tim who makes for example the iPhone 14 and then iPhone 14 Pro range. Under Steve Jobs there would probably be only the Pro line in existence.

Because the product line was simpler all the latest and greatest tech went into every model with the main difference being screen size or storage size. Features and functions weren’t used to differentiate on price like Tim does.
 
I have a problem with the whole spread the wealth attitude people have. An employee at the Apple Store doesn’t have the skills or qualifications to be a CEO of a company. Let alone one of the biggest companies around. CEOs do a lot more work than people think.

Employees should always get paid more, I’m not questioning that. But Tim Cook is able to make what he makes. Most of it is stocks (as people have mentioned with Steve Jobs only getting $1).
In my experience CEO’s are usually thick but good at chatting s**t.

They throw out some ideas and then the real workers actually get the job done. Then if it fails they get sacked but with massive bonuses and payouts.

Then because they have worked as CEO previously another company will pick them up and repeat the process.

Not saying all CEOs are rubbish but not all of them have the skills or qualifications to do the job either they just got lucky and brown nosed their way to the top.
 
More and more people in these forums complaining about prices.
People in these forums predicted apples demise after Tim Cook took the helm. So take that as you may.
Apple has kept prices similar in the US, if you’re in the US that’s great. Outside, everywhere else they’re increasing prices and an unsustainable level. It will snap back and hit them soon. People won’t be wanting to pay £2000 for an iPhone in the UK.
Then apple will learn a lesson.
Here in the UK phones are not actually subsidised at all now. The cost is spread over 24-36 month contracts and you usually end up paying slightly more.
I buy my phones outright.
It’s not only the unjustified price increases.

During Steve Jobs’ reign there was very little product fragmentation, something which helped bankrupt Apple before his return. When he returned to Apple he terminated every product and started fresh. He focussed on a consumer range and professional range.
Now there are many consumer choices at varying price points with a (more or less) unified ecosystem.
The consumer line was generally made from polycarbonate plastic, consisting of one desktop and one laptop (iMac and iBooks)

For the pro range it was titanium to begin with and then moved to aluminium though the Power Mac (now Mac Pro was initially plastic). There was the Power Mac and PowerBooks.

He kept things simple.
This is 2023. I don’t understand why people hold onto ideas that are now many years old.
Unlike Tim who makes for example the iPhone 14 and then iPhone 14 Pro range. Under Steve Jobs there would probably be only the Pro line in existence.
Under Steve apple may have collapsed also.
Because the product line was simpler all the latest and greatest tech went into every model with the main difference being screen size or storage size. Features and functions weren’t used to differentiate on price like Tim does.
It’s a different world now. Some may embrace it, some may not.
 
Because the product line was simpler all the latest and greatest tech went into every model with the main difference being screen size or storage size. Features and functions weren’t used to differentiate on price like Tim does.

In light of Apple’s current financial success, are you willing to entertain the possibility that Apple’s current business strategy of segmenting their products, while not to your benefit, is also what works for Apple and is what works for the majority of Apple’s current user base?

In the past, Apple had way fewer supporters, and their computing needs were likely way more closely aligned to the extent that Steve Jobs was able to address them with only a few product variations.

Apple today serves a far larger user base, with way more divergent needs, and so requires a wider variety of SKUs to meet them. Not just that, but the proportion of Apple's userbase today that are true believers is far smaller.

In this new reality, that original core user and investor base.. those true believers.. they don’t matter anymore. They got to enjoy the ride from the start, but now their secluded island has been inundated by a population of visitors that outnumbers them by a couple of orders of magnitude.

This new population sets the tone for what kind of company Apple will be, because they have the power in this new relationship.

For example, there would be people who don’t need all the functionality that comes with an iPhone Pro, which is why the base model exists - to avoid over-serving this segment of users.

That’s my takeaway at the end of the day. Steve Jobs did what made sense for Apple then (given they had extremely limited resources to work with), just as Tim Cook is doing what makes sense for Apple today. I wouldn’t call it “losing their way”, though. Circumstances changed, and the company changed, and that’s just the way she goes.

People in these forums predicted apples demise after Tim Cook took the helm. So take that as you may.

People here have been predicting Apple’s demise since time immemorial. I did a search of older posts once upon a time and the negativity and pessimism towards Steve jobs when he first unveiled iPod and iPad were equally bad. So the track record when it comes to reading Apple has always been bad.

And then now that Steve Jobs is dead and Tim Cook has taken over, they suddenly pretend they had always been supporting Steve Jobs when in reality, they are simply latching on whatever is convenient in order to bash the current incarnation of Apple.

It feels like too many people here are focused on being contrarian (for the sake of being contrarian) rather than being right.
 
I agree with you 100%.

I love Tim Cook but it would be nice if someone else gets a chance to become the CEO of Apple. Someone who is not afraid of change, innovation and really enriching people's lives. Give others a chance!
Apple is not in the business of change or innovation. It's in business to make buckets of money for its owners. Cook has delivered consistently for years.
 
Apple is not in the business of change or innovation. It's in business to make buckets of money for its owners. Cook has delivered consistently for years.
Peter Drucker 101. Apple is in the business of providing consumer friendly electronic devices and services. They won’t make buckets of money by providing crappy electronic devices and crappy services.
 
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