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Apple saying they have a moral responsibility is one of the biggest hypocritical statements any CEO has said in decades while the company hoards $250 billion in profits overseas and keeps it out of the US economy indefinitely.

Much of that money isn't kept out of the U.S. economy indefinitely, not even for the time being. It is loaned to others such that they can spend it. That is the nature of savings, at least on such a scale.

Much of that money is loaned to other corporations and thusly used for various purposes - e.g., to build things to grow those businesses, to pay employees, to return money to shareholders (who pay additional taxes on it and themselves use it in various ways). A lot of it is loaned to the U.S. government, much smaller amounts are loaned to foreign governments. Some of it is loaned to homeowners helping more people to buy homes.

That's to say nothing of the massive amounts of money that Apple spends or invests or returns to shareholders itself, or that it pays in U.S. taxes.

When we say that money is held overseas or offshore, we don't really mean that it isn't in U.S.-based assets. It could be in a U.S. bank or loaned to a U.S. company or the U.S. government. What we typically mean is that it hasn't been distributed to a parent (domestic) company from a subsidiary (foreign) company which made it and which that parent company owns. It's similar (though also different in a number of ways) to profits that a corporation makes not having been distributed yet to shareholders. The foreign company can still do lots of things with that money, including things which effectively channel it into the U.S. economy.
 
LOL.. good one, living the "american dream" huh? I hope you don't have any female relatives in Saudi Arabia, they would probably wait too long for you to "save" them.

The UN are your parents.


You must be replying to the wrong post because none of your reply is remotely applicable to anything I actually said.
 
Muh draft, muh service.

Who cares? So he sidestepped some stupid illegal war in some third world country to do nothing but test weapons and chemicals.

Really tired of this high horse mindset about military service. There hasn't been a just war fought by patriots of the United States since WW2. Period.

Everything since then has been illegal, empire-building garbage for the purpose of making billionaires out of military contractors and toppling democratically elected governments of foreign countries that weren't in line with the game called "The American Empire."

Yeah, thanks for your service to Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, and General Dynamics.


Please look up the word hypocrisy. He's sending our sons and daughters to die, when he didn't have the balls to do so himself. Thanks
 
I like the Trump victory-by-county map even better.....View attachment 715001

So now we know where easily-conned people reside.
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There's nothing wrong with making illegal the various business practices which destroy competition, such as monopolies and collusion, but our government today has its greedy hands in every industry now, and it makes doing business a lot harder than it has to be. At this point, there'd be more competition if the government would pull back a bit. They won't, because that would mean less power, and less power means less potential for greater payouts. It's all about money, in the end.

It's all about money for the corporations also. Left unchecked, they would pollute the environment more to make more profits.
 
It's all about money for the corporations also. Left unchecked, they would pollute the environment more to make more profits

For everyone who screams regulations are bad for business, I don't think they realize, if there were no regulations, we'd essentially have let Corporations run rampant over everyones lives.

Corporations, who are hell bent on profiteering do not care about the health and well being of their employees, Especially when there's a surplus of workforce and easily replacable. if they weren't held responsible for safety, they wouldn't care, since Safety measures cost money.

Corporations, would not care about the environment or using up resources. As they would only care about profit and the more that they can mine / reap, the benifits and not care about the costs.

if you want to see how bad it can get. look at the poluted rivers problems of the 60's -80's where there were entire lakes and rivers that were deemed too polluted to even swim in, nevermind use for drinking water. Look at the 80s-90s problems of acid rain which had potential devastating affects on wildlife and resources.

Regulations, enforced by government have given people job safety and security to not be abused by their employers, and have provided safety for our world and our future. I'm sorry if it means you can't have the insane growth of business every quarter like you used to. Tough, Economy is not, and should not be the #1 priority in life. is it important for a healthy society. YES. is it the only and most important thing? no. sometimes limits on economy and corporations have positives outside of the economy that are just as important
 
Biggest landslide electoral victory in history

Feels good


hahahahaha, Hillary got 3 million more votes and didn't need Putin's help. It will feel good when Trump and his gang of Nazi creeps are all safely in prison.
 
Please look up the word hypocrisy. He's sending our sons and daughters to die, when he didn't have the balls to do so himself. Thanks

I don't care how many "patriots" get sent to die in third world countries to kill civilians so General Dynamics can report a record quarter. As far as I'm concerned, the "cowards" who found a way out of serving defense contractors in Vietnam are the smart ones.

Flag-waving plastic "patriots" make me sick, really.
 
Havent heard about Russia crap in mainstream media much recently. Big new push for him being a white supremacist now.

The Van Jones nothingburgers got you good!


You're not paying attention. It's in the papers on the daily. Using parrot phrases like "nothingbuger" makes it look like you're unable to think for yourself. Seems to be a trait of many Trump supporters. Uninformed and repeating phrases they heard someone else say :) have a nice day.
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I don't care how many "patriots" get sent to die in third world countries to kill civilians so General Dynamics can report a record quarter. As far as I'm concerned, the "cowards" who found a way out of serving defense contractors in Vietnam are the smart ones.

Flag-waving plastic "patriots" make me sick, really.


You just described Trump. Except when it was time for HIM to serve.
 
As a veteran and student of history, I respectfully disagree.

We were asked by the world - via the UN - to save Kuwait and neutralize the Iraqi threat to them and Saudi Arabia. We did that quickly, decisively, and with very little loss of life.

The original Gulf War and ensuing balance that was had thru 9/11/2001 was legal, just, and necessary.

Oh yeah... and a LONG time after WWII...

"The threat to them and Saudi Arabia"

Please. Saudi and Kuwait are two of the richest nations on the planet who suck the blood of the United States to provide for their own defense.

The only reason the United States went into Iraq was to defend the Petrodollar. Turns out when you base your worthless currency on a volatile commodity that is in the control of limited hostile nations, you become a slave to their interests. Don't believe me? Then see how the USA has been Saudi's attack dog over the last 25 years in regard to oil-rich nations hostile to Saudi hegemony in the region.

So, no, it wasn't "just" by any means. It was a waste of American lives and resources to further the interests of an oil-rich, hostile nation.
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You're not paying attention. It's in the papers on the daily. Using parrot phrases like "nothingbuger" makes it look like you're unable to think for yourself. Seems to be a trait of many Trump supporters. Uninformed and repeating phrases they heard someone else say :) have a nice day.
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You just described Trump. Except when it was time for HIM to serve.

"Serve"

lol
 
For everyone who screams regulations are bad for business, I don't think they realize, if there were no regulations, we'd essentially have let Corporations run rampant over everyones lives.

Corporations, who are hell bent on profiteering do not care about the health and well being of their employees, Especially when there's a surplus of workforce and easily replacable. if they weren't held responsible for safety, they wouldn't care, since Safety measures cost money.

Corporations, would not care about the environment or using up resources. As they would only care about profit and the more that they can mine / reap, the benifits and not care about the costs.

if you want to see how bad it can get. look at the poluted rivers problems of the 60's -80's where there were entire lakes and rivers that were deemed too polluted to even swim in, nevermind use for drinking water. Look at the 80s-90s problems of acid rain which had potential devastating affects on wildlife and resources.

Regulations, enforced by government have given people job safety and security to not be abused by their employers, and have provided safety for our world and our future. I'm sorry if it means you can't have the insane growth of business every quarter like you used to. Tough, Economy is not, and should not be the #1 priority in life. is it important for a healthy society. YES. is it the only and most important thing? no. sometimes limits on economy and corporations have positives outside of the economy that are just as important
Again, a straw man argument. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY says that there should be no regulations. The problem is "overregulation", as in, regulating things that ought not be regulated. You do need some protections in place to prevent abuse, naturally, but once it goes beyond "protections" and into "milking businesses for money", you've got an abuse in the other direction which ought to be dealt with.
 
hahahahaha, Hillary got 3 million more votes and didn't need Putin's help. It will feel good when Trump and his gang of Nazi creeps are all safely in prison.

Enjoy your moral victory, we will gladly take the REAL victory hahaha

And Hilary only got 3 million more votes because of voting fraud
 
Couldn't be more wrong. Obama's legacy is failed healthcare that was forced on the American people along with over-regulation that ground productivity to a halt.

If it's "failed" why do the American people love it so much?

And for what it's worth, I would buy an American made iPhone for a premium price.

Yah this statement is worth zero. How much did you spend on commodity goods from China?
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I like the Trump victory-by-county map even better.....View attachment 715001

It's a good thing land votes...
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This fallacy is why the US is in so much trouble.

First, why do you think the iPhone would cost more? Apple is currently charging a price that maximizes their total profit off the iPhone, which is their obligation to their shareholders. They can't raise the price to compensate for making it in the US. If they had room to raise the price, they'd already have raise it. All we're talking about here is cutting into Apple's margins.

Now second, and you have to take this in the context that I was replying to Tim Cook's comment on his moral responsibility, Apple currently has the largest profit and margin in the industry by far. According to Tim Cook's own words in this article, Apple has a moral responsibility to eat into those margins for the good of the economy.

Third, your estimate about the increased costs is much too high. Foxconn spends about $5-10 in labor on each iPhone. If you're paying American factory workers $25/hour instead of Chinese workers $5/hour, we're adding at most $45 in labor cost to an iPhone. Eating that much margin would be a small price to pay for the effect it will have on the US economy, which is Apple's moral responsibility according to Tim.

Forth, Apple will get huge incentives from the state and federal government to move production to the US. If Foxconn got $300 million to build a plant here (money that will take the state more than 20 years to break even on in the best case), Apple can certainly get a sweet deal to move some production here too. Factoring that in, Apple won't even be out of pocket for the extra labor costs. Especially if they can negotiate terms to repatriate the money to build the factory without paying tax on it which is very likly.

Fifth, your basic premise that nobody wants to pay more for made in USA is both not true, and the reason the US is falling apart and the reason Trump was elected. $100 spent on a Chinese product is $100 lost forever from the US. $100 spent on an American made product will circulate the economy boosting it many times the original $100. *Some* people are willing to pay for that, you just give them no choice because US industry has pushed everything offshore across many markets.

My statements have been verified in studies. Your statements are wishful aspirations.
 
My statements have been verified in studies. Your statements are wishful aspirations.

Citation for those studies please? There's hundreds of journals that will publish any study for a fee, and even the "reputable" ones are pitifully easy to fool.

For example https://io9.gizmodo.com/i-fooled-millions-into-thinking-chocolate-helps-weight-1707251800

And don't forget even the Lancet (which is very prestigious) published a completely fraudulent study linking vaccination to autism.

Social studies "studies" are much less reliable to begin with, so if there really are these studies you speak of, let's see if they're in legit peer reviewed publications or from a vanity press. Then we can see who performed these "studies" and their backgrounds.
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Much of that money isn't kept out of the U.S. economy indefinitely, not even for the time being. It is loaned to others such that they can spend it. That is the nature of savings, at least on such a scale.

You're missing the point though. it's not that we're accusing Apple of wrongdoing here, but that when Timmy is pulling these tax avoidance tricks and offshoring the heck out of everything he only sounds like a fool when he says he has a moral responsibility to the economy. No matter how legitimate the business practices are, his own words say they're immoral.
 
hahahahaha, Hillary got 3 million more votes and didn't need Putin's help. It will feel good when Trump and his gang of Nazi creeps are all safely in prison.

we need to remove the 40 million illegal invaders who live illegally in this country and you will see that Hillary will never win again the popular vote

only people with USA passport or USA voter ID needs be allowed to vote

they are a drain on the economy and resources. Rents skyrocket anywhere they occupy
 
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You're not paying attention. It's in the papers on the daily. Using parrot phrases like "nothingbuger" makes it look like you're unable to think for yourself. Seems to be a trait of many Trump supporters. Uninformed and repeating phrases they heard someone else say :) have a nice day.
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You just described Trump. Except when it was time for HIM to serve.

I wonder if even you know what I’m referring to when I say not just nothingburgers, but specifically Van Jones nothingburgers.

I seriously have my doubts, have you even HEARD of a fella named James O’Keefe or Project Veritas?

EDIT and no its not Russia in papers daily anymore. The roster is anemic Russia wise right now. I would love to actually debate someone instead of just constantly educating and schooling but..

Its Charlottesville and then Arpaio/Harvey coverage. How can it be up for debate what the news is talking about? This is something easily verifiable or not... So what on earth are you talking about? How are YOU not even up to date with your slow drip of fake news? That’s a disappointing minion. An emotionally charged minion, indeed. Goooood.

I ctrl+f’d “russia” on frontpages of these sites-

Cnn.com, nada


On msnbc.com,

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/wa...isappointed-with-trump-reporter-1035069507739

one result about how Russians are disappointed with Trump (who cares?)


On nytimes, one result about how now a Trump associate boasted that the Moscow deal would get him elected (give me a break)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
‘Wh


And Washington post .com one result thats an opinion column piece titled “what more proof of a secret Russian deal do we need” (Uh, you guys need a lot more proof than emotions and repetition, clearly)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/08/29/what-more-proof-of-a-secret-russian-connection-do-we-need/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d:homepage/story&utm_term=.c4936e9af2c0
 
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You're missing the point though. it's not that we're accusing Apple of wrongdoing here, but that when Timmy is pulling these tax avoidance tricks and offshoring the heck out of everything he only sounds like a fool when he says he has a moral responsibility to the economy. No matter how legitimate the business practices are, his own words say they're immoral.

I'm not missing the point. My comment didn't have anything to do with whether Apple's business practices were legitimate and it wasn't responsive to the idea that someone was accusing Apple of wrongdoing. I wasn't suggesting that anyone was doing that.

I was responding to a particular suggestion, that Apple hoarding $250 billion in profits overseas was keeping it out of the U.S. economy indefinitely. That's not the case, and it suggests a misunderstanding of what it means when we say that Apple and other companies are holding morning overseas. The money can (and, in Apple's case, is to a great extent) still active in the U.S. economy. It's in U.S.-based assets. It is loaned, e.g., to other companies and homeowners and the U.S. government. Apple choosing not to repatriate foreign earnings, because the U.S. still implements an extraterritorial taxation system, does not keep those earnings from entering and stimulating the U.S. economy.

As for Mr. Cook sounding like a fool based on the assertion in question, I could hardly disagree more. But when it comes to taxes in particular, in the context of discussing affects on the U.S. economy, Apple for the most part doesn't do things to avoid paying income taxes on profits that come from sales made in the United States. To the contrary, it pays a very high rate on those profits. It also pays considerable income taxes in the U.S. on profits made from sales in other parts of the Americas. If it wanted to, it likely could - fairly easily - avoid paying some of those taxes.

It does avoid paying a great deal of foreign income taxes and it does choose not to repatriate a great deal of foreign earnings in order to avoid additional U.S. income taxation. The latter, at least, is the only responsible choice it could make. The problem is the antiquated (and counter-productive and, in my view, otherwise improper) tax policy which the U.S. still clings to even while most of the developed would has moved on from it - the idea that a nation has the right to tax economic activity that legitimately takes place in other nations. If we want Apple and other companies like them to bring money - foreign earnings - to the United States, we should get rid of that policy. It is misguided.
 
How’s that Supreme Court looking? :)

Trump could just decide he’s not going to spend another day getting anything done as president, and fake news media ruined it for everybody and he’s over pretending to be the boss of America all together and resistance got the best of his administration, and he’s going to play golf at his resorts nonstop for 4-8 years to give Americans the grandest middle finger of all...

But by securing his SCOTUS pick, a title that has a life long term (something I have my doubts of that everyone in this thread is already aware of), he’s gotten plenty done already indeed :D

I actually need to remind myself of this, when I’m getting impatient that he hasn’t gotten anywhere near everything done I would like to see done.

But by the end of the day, and even as I wake up every day— I’m relieved most of all, not pissed like Hillary fans, that Hillary isn’t president. Different strokes lol

And I also need to remind myself, not as an apologist but just a realist, we’re 8 months into a term but my impatience has grown rapidly because with the media/relentless complaining and unfounded theories, by illusion of Perception its felt like friggin YEARS and YEARS

I genuinely am optimistic in that i dont think the MSM’s business model, or fatiguing narrative, is sustainable to force on the public. I think they have short-sighted goals for what should be a marathon of a plan. A lot see through it. And its still REALLY early on, so for people to see the bs, is concerning for people controlling the narrative
 
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I have said this before and I will repeat again: Tim Cook is running for president in the next election AND he is going to win. Write that down.

That's a bold prediction but it's noted.

What's Moonbeam's plan? Maybe he'll run in 2019 for Governor.
 
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