Apple Challenges $2 Billion EU Antitrust Fine Over Spotify Complaint

[JungleNYC]

The EU is a cancer. It's exactly what happens when a bunch of "managers", who don't have anything of value to offer society, decide to insert themselves, and control things via an out-of-touch, central command, administrative bureaucracy. These people are Vogons.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

The EU creates arbitrary laws that were specifically crafted to apply only to a small number of companies and then the EU supporters say "see! it's obvious that Apple is evil!"

Meanwhile, Spotify does not allow any musicians to create a link external to their app to allow consumers to buy music from a source other than Spotify. So, why isn't Spotify considered culpable under this same EU law? Why don't you say Spotify is breaking so-called anti-steering laws? Because you apply a different standard to Apple than to Spotify.

None of this is about consumer protection. This is pure protectionism for EU companies. And the "Apple is SO EVIL" contingent don't even understand the core principles involved.

 

[truthsteve]

How so? I'd appreciate it if you could correct me and show me how Microsoft is steering consumers away

games on the xbox console. Fortnite is not allowed to display "you can buy v-bucks from epic's website too for 30% less!"

anymore questions?

 

[Hails09]

No we just think (and rightfully so) that Spotify (and also Epic) are in the wrong.

Why does it actually matter
How does this affect you in anyway?
It’s just boring big companies arguing about money
Who cares

 

[Hails09]

The EU creates arbitrary laws that were specifically crafted to apply only to a small number of companies and then the EU supporters say "see! it's obvious that Apple is evil!"

Meanwhile, Spotify does not allow any musicians to create a link external to their app to allow consumers to buy music from a source other than Spotify. So, why isn't Spotify considered culpable under this same EU law? Why don't you say Spotify is breaking so-called anti-steering laws? Because you apply a different standard to Apple than to Spotify.

None of this is about consumer protection. This is pure protectionism for EU companies. And the "Apple is SO EVIL" contingent don't even understand the core principles involved.

Why do you actually care about this
Why are you taking it so personal on behalf of a trillion dollar company

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Why does it actually matter
How does this affect you in anyway?
It’s just boring big companies arguing about money
Who cares

Because there are principles of basic economics at play here. It's not about the companies, per se, but about the ability of companies to innovate absent overly burdensome and arbitrary laws that are based in protectionism.

It's this very notion that has likely caused the EU to become a tech backwater, from which it is now desperately trying to overcome through arbitrary laws.

 

[Hails09]

Because there are principles of basic economics at play here. It's not about the companies, per se, but about the ability of companies to innovate absent overly and arbitrary laws that are based in protectionism.

It's this very notion that has likely caused the EU to become a tech backwater, from which it is now desperately trying to overcome through arbitrary laws.

Why do you actually care?
Is it stopping you from going about your daily life?
Are you a Spotify customer if not then why do you care
It’s about 2 companies arguing over money

 

[truthsteve]

The bias is so clear every time.

Apple can do no wrong in the minds of some people.

Edit: I'm getting so many downvotes in this thread for daring to speak out against Apple. People are going to blow their entire 24-hour allotment of downvotes on me because apparently thinking different (ironic isn't it) isn't allowed, kind of an honor.

you're getting downvotes because you didn't realize Microsoft is doing the exact same thing with the xbox console.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Why do you actually care?
Is it stopping you from going about your daily life?
Are you a Spotify customer if not then why do you care
It’s about 2 companies arguing over money

Because I care about basic economic principles and the impact they have on the tools I use in my work every day. These tools allow me to make a living.

But I explained all of this above. I'm not sure why "why do you care" applies to people other than you? You've apparently decided that I shouldn't care about these issues. What insight do you have on what I care about that is more important than the insight I have?

 

[Hails09]

Because I care about basic economic principles and the impact they have on the tools I use in my work every day. These tools allow me to make a living.

But I explained all of this above. I'm not sure why "why do you care" applies to people other than you? You've apparently decided that I shouldn't care about these issues. What insight do you have on what I care about that is more important than the insight I have?

Because it’s just big companies that are arguing about money that doesn’t effect anyone apart from their shareholders.
Are you American?

 

[truthsteve]

What is not subjective is users being denied the ability to observe alternative deals

amazon denies anker from promoting products that are cheaper on ankers website.

 

[mdatwood]

None of this is about consumer protection. This is pure protectionism for EU companies. And the "Apple is SO EVIL" contingent don't even understand the core principles involved.

I agree, but I also think Apple should open up here. Just because I think the EU is being a complete protectionist for it's darling Spotify, doesn't mean I agree with everything Apple does.

 

[sw1tcher]

hmmm... so while in supermarket A, should we get to compare alternative deals of other supermarkets while there?

That's not even close to what this EU fine is for. This is an anti-steering fine

The Commission fined Apple in March, saying that the company abused its dominant position in the market by forbidding music streaming apps to tell users about cheaper subscription prices outside the app.

This is Apple telling an app developer (e.g. Spotify, Netflix, etc) they cannot tell subscribers through their own app that there is a less expensive way (such as through www.spotify.com) to subscribe to Spotify.

This is analogous to a store or a news stand telling the magazines that they cannot put subscriber cards (remember those?)

inside their own magazines that inform magazine buyers of a less expensive way to purchase the magazines (i.e. through the mail) vs buying it at the full cover price from the store or news stand.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

I agree, but I also think Apple should open up here. Just because I think the EU is being a complete protectionist for it's darling Spotify, doesn't mean I agree with everything Apple does.

But the core principle at play here is who gets to decide “what Apple does?” Just because you think Apple should act a certain way doesn’t mean much. Your leverage is to buy or not buy their products.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Because it’s just big companies that are arguing about money that doesn’t effect anyone apart from their shareholders.
Are you American?

I can guarantee that it is likely I care about many things you think I shouldn’t care about. I’m not sure why you think I owe you an explanation about what I care about.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

That's not even close to what this EU fine is for. This is an anti-steering fine

The Commission fined Apple in March, saying that the company abused its dominant position in the market by forbidding music streaming apps to tell users about cheaper subscription prices outside the app.

This is Apple telling an app developer (e.g. Spotify, Netflix, etc) they cannot tell subscribers through their own app that there is a less expensive way (such as through www.spotify.com) to subscribe to Spotify.

This is analogous to a store or a news stand telling the magazines that they cannot put subscriber cards (remember those?)

View attachment 2380851

inside their own magazines that inform magazine buyers of a less expensive way to purchase the magazines (i.e. through the mail) vs buying it at the full cover price from the store or news stand.

Should Spotify let musicians put links to alternative ways to pay for their songs inside the Spotify app?

 

[sw1tcher]

The EU creates arbitrary laws that were specifically crafted to apply only to a small number of companies and then the EU supporters say "see! it's obvious that Apple is evil!"

And Apple's App Store rules aren't arbitrary?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/news-publishers-ask-apple-for-the-same-app-store-deal-it-gave-amazon.html

Major news publishers have joined a growing number of companies criticizing Apple over its App Store policies, which they argue promote anti-competitive practices.

Digital Content Next (DCN), a trade body representing the likes of The New York Times, The Washington Post, News Corp and CNBC, wrote to the iPhone maker asking how its members could qualify for a special deal like one given to Amazonin 2017.

Under that arrangement, Apple offered Amazon a 15% fee on customer subscriptions for Amazon’s Prime Video app via the App Store, lower than Apple’s customary 30% fee for most in-app purchases.

I thought Apple treated all app developers the same?

Apple says all developers treated equally, yet documents show Amazon Prime Video pays half the usual App Store commission - 9to5Mac

As part of the big tech monopoly judicial hearing yesterday, the court has released many pages of documentation to support...

9to5mac.com

Meanwhile, Spotify does not allow any musicians to create a link external to their app to allow consumers to buy music from a source other than Spotify.

Last I checked, you cannot buy/purchase music on Spotify as Spotify is a subscription services.

How to buy songs?

Hey there, this may sound like a real stupid question, but how do I buy songs? I have Spotify Premium and according to the FAQ it is possible to buy songs and get them as MP3. Now I just can't figure out how to Download them (and yes, I tried right clicking on them , but in the Pop-Up menu...

community.spotify.com

The FAQs are in need of updating, it is no longer possible to purchase tracks through Spotify as mp3's as the downloads store has been recently removed from all countries (it was never available everywhere) whilst they focus on new streaming features and improving the service.

Can you buy an album right off of Spotify? Even ones not offered for streaming?

I would like to buy T. Swift's reputation, but I only use Spotify for my music and not Itunes, any way for me to buy the album through Spotify?

community.spotify.com

No, you can't. Spotify's a music streaming service and not a service that sells music

So, why isn't Spotify considered culpable under this same EU law? Why don't you say Spotify is breaking so-called anti-steering laws? Because you apply a different standard to Apple than to Spotify.

What anti-steering law is Spotify breaking when you cannot purchase music off Spotify?

And even if you could, are you trying to argue that since Spotify is breaking anti-steering laws it is okay for Apple to do so?

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

It's a bit of a problem for Apple that the EU is the prosecutor, judge and jury in this case

Well, of course? Apple isn't a country or an EU nation.

Apple is just a for-profit business like any other for-profit business, existing to gain more and more profits for its shareholders.

Whether you think they're great or terrible, that's just what they do.

The EU is owned by its leaders and the people, and seeks to make its markets as fair as possible, while also considering the interests of end-consumers. All with the overarching goal of maintaining and increasing the prosperity of the EU.

If what Apple wants doesn't align with the interests of the EU then Apple is as free to leave the EU as Spotify is free to leave Apple's App Store.

The EU, like any other self-respecting country, is naturally the referee of its digital markets and will understandably make sure that "the game" is fair for both gatekeepers, like Apple, and the businesses that rely on products and services owned by the gatekeepers, like Spotify relies on the traffic it gets from Apple's various App Stores.

Being that profits are Apple's highest principle, it will neither leave nor be "undone" by the EU.

They're just contesting the DMA regulations as much as they can because they can.

The trillion dollar company is putting its capital to use to minimize future losses.

Did anyone expect any different?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

And Apple's App Store rules aren't arbitrary?

You think there’s a comparable argument between laws being consistent and private companies policies being consistent? We must have very different foundations of understanding on these issues.

Last I checked, you cannot buy/purchase music on Spotify as Spotify is a subscription services.

This point is trying to be too clever by half.

are you trying to argue that since Spotify is breaking anti-steering laws it is okay for Apple to do so?

Yes

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Nah. Apple will just eventually grow a pair and tell them to eat dirt and leave.

There's sizable losses but still billions to be made in accepting the EU's DMA and retaining access to EU consumers, businesses and digital markets.

There are only huge losses associated with "growing a pair" and leaving the EU.

Can you guess which option the trillion dollar corporation will pick?

 

[Timpetus]

They’re both children, fighting each other rather than coming to an agreement for their customers. It’s like the government. Both sides suck and are more concerned with their own self-interests, and are fighting each other rather than focusing on the people. It’s wild.

It's almost like self-interest is universal to humanity, and unaccountable power is something to which no human should have access!

 

[I7guy]

Go apple go. The balls are in the air and we’ll see where they land.

 

[gnipgnop]

The Commission fined Apple in March, saying that the company abused its dominant position in the market by forbidding music streaming apps to tell users about cheaper subscription prices outside the app.

The problem with that claim is that the vast majority of Spotify's history on the App Store never involved a cheaper price outside the app. Per their own timetoplayfair web site, they only offered IAP from June 2014 thru May 2016. That was the only time period a cheaper price was available online. Spotify's preference was to only offer the free version inside the app and to require customers to go online to pay. That's what they did in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023.

 

[scorpio vega]

Why do you actually care about this
Why are you taking it so personal on behalf of a trillion dollar company

Sounds like they are pointing out the obvious hypocrisy

 

[chrono1081]

Only cause they are going after the infallible Apple.

Also since you said we as if you all would have one singular thought, thinking as a group is weird, some would even say (rightfully so) cultish.

No, like I said because they’re in the wrong. Epic wants to host for free despite charging a fee for their own store. Spotify doesn’t even pay its artists yet still wants hosting for free as well.

App stores aren’t free to run. Apple deserves to get paid for hosting.