iPod touch Apple changed it's strategy with the new iPod touch 4th gen

[ecschwarz]

BTW, I just read ecschwarz's post and there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference...oh, well. I'm still buying the darn thing. lol.

The iPod touch updates have mostly been evolutionary and this is no exception. For most iPod touch 2nd generation or 3rd generation users, this update is not a "I need to run out and get one", unless they want Face Time or more storage space. The same argument took place with the iPhone 4 - 3GS users didn't really have a compelling reason to upgrade except for all the little incremental improvements.

 

[Neebee]

Dat true...but most 3G owners got a shock when they upgraded to the latest OS. That would be a concern of mine as long as any new OS update won't cause a performance hit on the touches.

 

[SoraLimit]

The iPod touch updates have mostly been evolutionary and this is no exception. For most iPod touch 2nd generation or 3rd generation users, this update is not a "I need to run out and get one", ..........

Actually, I'm just going out of my way to say that the iPod touch 4th Gen is a welcome upgrade, because of the fact that the 2nd Gen doesn't have the complete iOS 4 experience. There are even games out there that can only be played on a third gen iPod.

 

[briand05]

The difference between the two devices are definitely growing. Even though SJ said the now famous line "iPhone without the contract" it clearly is NOT. Why is it so bad to admit that it doesn't have a Retina Display. The screen that it has looks great to me. It doesn't bother me that it isn't a Retina, just that people still want to call it that.

I have an idea. Let's get Apple to define Retina Display so that this BS doesn't happen again. Fat chance. LOL.

Does that mean I hate Apple? no
Does that mean I don't want an iPod Touch? NO. I want one pretty bad.
Does that mean I hate SJ? I'm on the fence. Salesmen, liars, and people who grossly mislead for profit pi$$ me off.

It does have a retina display...but it's an inferior retina display. Remember the whole retina marketing was all about the resolution. On the other hand, Apple is misleading consumers by making it seem like these screens are the same but that's how companies are. I don't think Apple's gonna market the new touch like "new iPod touch with (crappier) retina display". Ultimately the new touch still has a very nice high res screen but it definitely lacks the punch of the iPhone 4s because of the much worse contrast.

 

[GoodBoy]

I'm happy to see there are more people who share my point of view on the latest Apple strategy.

As for the retina display, I guess, after the keynote everyone expected exactly the same screen as iPhone's, so there was a bit of Apple marketing cheating there. They even didn't clarify the difference to the very last day of product release. Now we all know retina is all about screen resolution, and nothing more. People themselves had to discover the fact it's lacking IPS technology in the new touch. Same with amount of ram, and much inferior camera.

The difference in epecs between an iPod touch and an iPhone got bigger this year because Apple want people to justify the premium price even more for an iPhone product. Now the difference is so big and clear that the iPod touch is no longer "an iPhone without a phone", so the people who buy the iPhone 4 know they got much, much more this time, than just added GSM functionality. So yes, I think Apple's move was to make iPhone 4 owners feel better about their 699$ purchase (or less, but on expensive contract).

Now, back to the pricing policy. With the release of a new iPod touch, people may think it's so much superior to the last generation. Seriously how much do you think 0,7mpix without-autofocus camera can cost? Or a TN panel, which is the cheapest type of LCD on the market? I seriously doubt the cost of production new touch changed compared to last gen. It may even have lowered, since the parts are becoming cheaper each year. Still, the prices for consumers didn't change, so that's how Steve Jobs is playing with us all.

 

[drjsway]

The difference in epecs between an iPod touch and an iPhone got bigger this year because Apple want people to justify the premium price even more for an iPhone product.

You are insane!

The difference in specs got much smaller this year. The new touch has features that the previous gens never had (like cameras and a mic), which meant thousands of iOS apps wouldn't work properly.

This is the FIRST time in history that an iPod touch is able to run EVERY app in the app store. The only ones that won't work as well are those using GPS (though wi-fi triangulation is pretty good).

This is the closest the iPod touch has EVER come to being "an iPhone without the phone".

Now we all know retina is all about screen resolution,

Retina was always about screen resolution and everyone (except you, apparently) knew it. Retina display is a display with pixels so small, you cannot discern individual ones. That's it. It never had anything to do with IPS or display technology.

 

[GoodBoy]

Stop blaming people for something you don't understand. You're just saying about the features, which are the same, but those features, and practically all of them are so much inferior to the ones in iPhone 4. That was the point in my post, not a set of features themselves, but rather the quality and usability, which is poor considering what can you do with a crappy 0.7mpix camera, etc.

Here's another review of new Apple's product confirming my thoughts about the new strategy http://www.anandtech.com/show/3903/apples-ipod-touch-2010-review-not-a-poor-mans-iphone-4 As I was reading it, I discovered the included earphones are lacking remote functionality (iPod touch 3rd gen earphone had both a mic and remote) This is getting worse and worse...

 

[GoodBoy]

Retina was always about screen resolution and everyone (except you, apparently) knew it. Retina display is a display with pixels so small, you cannot discern individual ones. That's it. It never had anything to do with IPS or display technology.

Really? It was exactly opposite. Everyone after the keynote expected iPod's display to be IPS. Everyone was sure about it, until some pics emerged, showing iPods poor viewing angles. It all started from this that it might not be an IPS.

 

[drjsway]

Stop blaming people for something you don't understand. You're just saying about the features, which are the same, but those features, and practically all of them are so much inferior to the iones in iPhone 4. That was the point in my post, not a set of features themselves, but rather the quality and usability, which is poor ocnidering what can you do with a crappy 0.7mpix camera, etc.

Here's another review od new Apple's product confirming my thoughts about the new strategy http://www.anandtech.com/show/3903/apples-ipod-touch-2010-review-not-a-poor-mans-iphone-4

As I was reading it, I discovered the included earphones are lacking remote functionality This is getting worse and worse...

What don't I understand? That features on a $299 device are inferior to ones on a $699 device? And when did I blame anyone for anything?

The fact is, without a camera and a mic, the old iPod touch was never a full iOS device. How was the old iPod touch "an iPhone without the phone" when it couldn't even run THOUSANDS of iOS apps?

 

[drjsway]

Really? It was exactly opposite. Everyone after the keynote expected iPod's display to be IPS. Everyone was sure about it, until some pics emerged, showing iPods poor viewing angles. It all started from this that it might not be an IPS.

People hoped it would be but that doesn't change the fact that everyone knew a retina display is defined only by screen resolution. That's why they called it a retina display.

What on earth made you think IPS is required for a display to be retina?

 

[qwerty808]

op raises a valid point re differentiation of spec. does make life harder for app developers if specs are very different.

 

[fertilized-egg]

op raises a valid point re differentiation of spec. does make life harder for app developers if specs are very different.

Not really. For app developers the Touch still offers the same resolution and same CPU, only with different RAM.

On a related note, an odd effect of the 256MB RAM is that the iPad owners are secretly rejoicing that their devices will get more attention since both app developers and Apple will likely put more efforts toward supporting devices with 256MB RAM. :|

 

[matrix07]

The new iPod Touch is the one I really want. I couldn't care less about the older model or how they compare with iPhone counterpart. All I care is the new one does everything iPhone4 does minus the phone part and GPS. No IPS? Before it's announced I wouldn't think it has retina display. Less RAM? I prefer the price point than they charge me more and add more RAM.
You can even have a call for the first time. Talk about "meh" thread. The way you think you will not be happy with anything.

This year I'll actually go out and buy one for a change.

 

[kartana]

And it's not that the iPhone has an extra 265 MB of RAM. The 'phone part' of the iPhone uses up some of it.

 

[matrix07]

Really? It was exactly opposite. Everyone after the keynote expected iPod's display to be IPS. Everyone was sure about it, until some pics emerged, showing iPods poor viewing angles. It all started from this that it might not be an IPS.

And before the keynote I didn't even think the display would be the same resolution, I mean this resolution in a sub $300 device? Point me to the product that is better at this price point then I'll dance your dance.

 

[qwerty808]

Not really. For app developers the Touch still offers the same resolution and same CPU, only with different RAM.

and as a developer who develops enterprise apps, that's a problem. if further differentiation occurs, it becomes more of a problem.

 

[fertilized-egg]

... Point me to the product that is better at this price point then I'll dance your dance.

Bingo. It's clear why Apple did all this as regular buyers of the iPods couldn't care less about the RAM amount: they had a very specific product gross profit margin in mind and tried to work within that constraint. This is very evil corporate thing to do and can be understandably maddening for consumers, especially if your online forum handle is "GoodBoy," but the fact remains: what else can you buy that's even remotely close to the iPod Touch? Does the iPod provide the same great iOS experience people expect? Yes. Is there anything else competitive? No.

Until other companies come up with PDA MP3 players that can provide similar user experience as the Touch, Apple will easily rule the roost. If the OP is that concerned about Apple's poor behavior, I recommend go standing in front of the Apple company building to start a picket line, not trying to preach his standard in this forum.

 

[GoodBoy]

Not really. For app developers the Touch still offers the same resolution and same CPU, only with different RAM.

On a related note, an odd effect of the 256MB RAM is that the iPad owners are secretly rejoicing that their devices will get more attention since both app developers and Apple will likely put more efforts toward supporting devices with 256MB RAM. :|

It's a big problem stated in this review of the new iPod touch http://www.anandtech.com/show/3903/apples-ipod-touch-2010-review-not-a-poor-mans-iphone-4 Famous Citadel demo crashed on iPod touch, as it doesn't have 512mb of ram. Citadel developer has to lower the texture quality in order to make it work on touch4 4gen.

 

[fertilized-egg]

and as a developer who develops enterprise apps, that's a problem. if further differentiation occurs, it becomes more of a problem.

My guess is that developers for a while will most likely will stick with 256MB RAM requirement. Again that's the commonality shared with the new Touch, the older Touch as well as the iPads so it makes sense in that way. I don't like Apple's extreme profit-chasing way either, but what else can I buy?

 

[fertilized-egg]

It's a big problem stated in this review of the new iPod touch http://www.anandtech.com/show/3903/apples-ipod-touch-2010-review-not-a-poor-mans-iphone-4 Famous Citadel demo crashed on iPod touch, as it doesn't have 512mb of ram. Citadel developer has to lower the texture quality in order to make it work on touch4 4gen.

And that's a beta version of a game without complete support. If you recall game developers already have been dealing with the fragmentation issue since the 2nd gen iPod touches due to the difference in graphics horsepower so games are a bit more problem prone. I'm sure the companies will go after the 256MB RAM environment, as disappointing as that is.

 

[GoodBoy]

Bingo. It's clear why Apple did all this as regular buyers of the iPods couldn't care less about the RAM amount: they had a very specific product gross profit margin in mind and tried to work within that constraint. This is very evil corporate thing to do and can be understandably maddening for consumers, especially if your online forum handle is "GoodBoy," but the fact remains: what else can you buy that's even remotely close to the iPod Touch? Does the iPod provide the same great iOS experience people expect? Yes. Is there anything else competitive? No.

This is the clue of Apple's current strategy and price policy. In the review mentioned above, there is a clear statement that prices for the new iPods are way too high, given the possible production costs. Because Apple don't have to deal with competition on the PMP market, it continues to deliver not so perfect quality products. For example, what's the point in putting 5mpix camera or an IPS screen in the new iPod if 50M people gonna buy it anyways, and you can can upgrade stuff in future product incarnations. That sucks for consumers, but works perfectly for Apple company. If the competition was tougher, we would have already seen at least 3mpix camera and an IPS if not AMOLED screen in the new iPod touch.

 

[fertilized-egg]

... That sucks for consumers, but works perfectly for Apple company.

That absolutely is. Just don't expect other consumers to join in with you with pitchforks in their hands and try to burn Steve Jobs on the cross. As disappointing as its specs, the iPod Touch is still an amazing portable device without any question no matter how hard you tell the owners how crappy it is.

 

[GoodBoy]

And that's a beta version of a game without complete support. If you recall game developers already have been dealing with the fragmentation issue since the 2nd gen iPod touches due to the difference in graphics horsepower so games are a bit more problem prone. I'm sure the companies will go after the 256MB RAM environment, as disappointing as that is.

They will deal with it. Bad thing is, the quality od new apps gonna suffer (graphics texture resolution and detail). If the 512mb of ram was the new standard for the coming apps, it would be much better.

 

[fertilized-egg]

They will deal with it. Bad thing is, the quality od new apps gonna suffer (graphics texture resolution and detail). If the 512mb of ram was the new standard for the coming apps, it would be much better.

Sure and that's disappointing for gamers. But were you doing this to Nintendo owners when Nintendo released the DS and the Wii with extremely disappointing specs? Were you doing this to PS3 owners, telling them how their GPU isn't as fast as the XBOX360's and how they should feel about their crappy PS3? It's one thing to criticize a company's way of squeezing profit line, but it's completely another thing to write a post after another in a forum dedicated to that product telling people how crappy this device is in an almost insulting way. Usually that's called trolling.

 

[GoodBoy]

That absolutely is. Just don't expect other consumers to join in with you with pitchforks in their hands and try to burn Steve Jobs on the cross. As disappointing as its specs, the iPod Touch is still an amazing portable device without any question no matter how hard you tell the owners how crappy it is.

I'm not saying it's crappy, as it definetly is the best device among all iPods so far. It's just not what many people expected to be in terms of new features and upgrades. Like the reviewer stated in the link I provided a few posts before, it's more like an iPod touch 3.5 than 4gen. I absolutely agree with him.

As for the retina - there are already much cheaper PMPs on the market with AMOLED screens (iRiver Spinn for example) that are even superior to iPhone's IPS. Of course those devices suffer on other functionality levels (lack of games, lack of AppStore ,etc), but the fact is they have better screens so it's not like IPS or AMOLED are reserved only for high-end devices.