Apple 'Charts' Spreadsheet Application?

[heisetax]

You say not Excel, then what?

"Many users can qualify for a $120-130 education version of Office."

In my company zero qualify. Average home user, I doubt if the number is as high as 25%. For businesses and government, I would be surprised if it was above 5%.

"iWork is years from being mature. For that reason most need to purchase each upgrade as they come out. That comes to $79/year. That would average at least $240 for a 3 year upgrade cycle. Or $320 to $400 for the 4-5 year cycle."

Come on Bill, this is purely speculation with little historical data to support it. And if you think Excel is such a great product, think again. It does pretty well and most users are able to accomplish what they want. But, it is a resource Pig. I just had to upgrade 80 users from Office 2000 to Office 2003, just because Excel could not even open a large spreadsheet that came with our new estimating system. Then I had to upgrade the workstations for about half of them because Excel ran so poorly. After a few months of use, Excel 2003 is bogging down trying to deal with the larger pivot tables. Eventually, it even shutdown. The app says we have exceeded the program resources and we should consider a database solution. For now, we are having to purge data weekly and we hasten to replace Excel with a VB app. No, Excel is far from a mature, perfect product.

I'm like you in some ways. I will agree with you that Excel is not the program that it could be. The reson why was also stated in one of my posts. That is because it has not had the comptetition that it needs to to become as great as it could be. Excel had no Mac upgrade between 5 & 8.

We need someone to write this program. I have found none in the past. With 99.999+% of the new programs in the non-spreadsheet area we will have to work around Excel limitations or use other types of programs to do the work that Excel can not or will not do in an efficient enough manner.

Because of Excels 4,000 different cell format limit (which hasn't changed in several versions) I had to break my big spreadsheet into many small ones & then link them together when they are needed. So I will be the last one to say that Excel is perfect. If any program was perfect today, someone would find something that they needed to do & that this program could not do thus rendering it not perfect by the next day.

I've purchased many programs hoping that they could do what I want & need from Excel. To date I just have a lot of disks & CDs that I do not use anymore to show for all of my work. I'm one that does not expect Apple to be the one to take over the lead in the spreadsheet area. I won't call it a spreadsheet war, because there never was a spreadsheet war on the Macintosh. Excel has always stayed just good enough to keep the competitors down, but really no better. Now Excel for the Mac doesn't even keep parity with the Windows version. In the second quarter I've had to do 95% of my work using Office 2003 running under Virtual PC to get my work done. There may have been more competition in the MS-DOS area with Lotus 1-2-3, but was there ever the same competition in the Windows arena with MS Office.

Bill the TaxMan

 

[heisetax]

MS-DOS to Windows

Bob,

Word and Excel did not gain dominance until Windows 3.1 was firmly established. That would be about 1992-1993. In fact, I was just tossing some old Byte, PC Magazine, etc. stuff. I was browsing it nostalgically as I tossed. In a late 90's PCM, I read a short article about how Word should be considered as good, or better, than most of the other WP's out there. In ~ the same time period, Byte was still rating Quattro Pro as the best choice for spreadsheets, with Lotus 123 in second. It was not easy for MS to gain a solid foothold where these solid legacy applications lived. Surprisingly, it was business that was slow to adopt MS. They had a fortune invested in the MS competitors. But, the economics eventually won out.

It probably coinsided with the change from MS-DOS to Windows. In some areas it took a lot longer to transition. In the Windows Tax Prep area other than TurboTax for Windows which rather than being ported from TurboTax for MS-DOS was the Mac'nTax purchased by ChipSoft & ported to theWindows arena, many of the programs did not push their Windows version of their software over the MS-DOS version until the last 2-5 years. A few of them still look like their Windows counter parts.

Was Excel really better in the Windows arena or was it just first? These other programs may have waited too long for the seitch. It wasn't all dirty tricks by MS that has put MS Office in the lead. I havn't heard many people refer to Apple's giving Apple II's to schools to get a foot hold in the school market. I'm sure many feel that to be the case.

Bill the TaxMan

 

[iJawn108]

I was talking about just this to my local apple reseller. That apple themselves need to include one in iWork.


I'll probibly just stick to open office.org it does everything i need it to.

 

[jhenzie]

What????

I find it funny how Microsoft is coming out with a competitor to the iPod and is including features in Vista that have already been in OS X for years... and everyone calls them a theif or a copycat for it. But when Apple comes out with an Excel wannabe, not a soul says that they're trying to cash in on someone else's idea. Let's face it, Excel has been around for ages, and Apple is just now coming out with their own version of it... same with Keynote (although I do find Keynote to be considerably better).

I'll be the first to say it: "Apple is stealing the idea and trying to cash in on Microsoft's work just as Microsoft did with Windows."

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Apple - but it's true. There are so many fanboys out there that they can't see around the fact that Apple is just as guilty as MS when it comes to taking ideas.

So they are taking ideas from Microsoft Excel, come on, you have to be kidding.

Oh sorry, I forgot that `microsoft invented teh spreadsheet, Lotus begat excel, visicalc begat lotus

Apple, if this comes to fruition, is simply providing an application in a specific category. `there is no copying here.

But you are right, MS should not be criticized for entering products that compete with Apple

 

[heisetax]

Is $79 >= to $399.

If you think that $79 is greater than $399 then you need some help.

Its easy to get a MS office Student licensed copy. That changes the $399 to say $130. This program does not need to be or is it offered to be upgraded that often. That means for the education user as soon as iWork is upgraded the $79 is already larger than the $399. I've purchased Keynote 1 & iWork 2005. I did not choose to purchase iWork 2006 so my version of Pages is very slim. I already have more money tied up in KeyNote/iWork than in this last version of Office which already includes a spreadsheet.

This $79 is the same for a new purchaser as it is an upgrading purchaser, as Apple has no upgrade prices for their OS or their so called Consumer Apps, i.e. iLife & iWork. If the new version is not purchased of iWork then one quickly fall behind as the Pages program has not reached an universal use level yet. It is still a limited use product. But this can not be directly related to $'s. Many people do not purchace every upgrade for Office. They have enough features in the old version to keep them going. With iWork if this was the case we would have at least $79 * 6 or $474, providing the program is around that long. $474 is even higher than the $399 that not many users would ever have to pay.

At the school I go to MS Office costs $80. At UNL the price is $10. In this case the $79 is about equal to or many times larger than your not always the case $399.

By telling the truth it is very easy to get an educational copy of MS Office. If you just say you are a student, most places will still sell to you. I'll remain a student for many more years. By that time I'll be 70 or more & may not want to upgrade at all. Mac OS X upgrades are only $69 for students. Think about it & go back to school. It that way you can keep your mind active & get reminded in most classes why you use a Mac.

Mac User since 1984, Excel user since version 1.0,

Bill the TaxMan

 

[ramblingman]

I find it funny how Microsoft is coming out with a competitor to the iPod and is including features in Vista that have already been in OS X for years... and everyone calls them a theif or a copycat for it. But when Apple comes out with an Excel wannabe, not a soul says that they're trying to cash in on someone else's idea. Let's face it, Excel has been around for ages, and Apple is just now coming out with their own version of it... same with Keynote (although I do find Keynote to be considerably better).

I'll be the first to say it: "Apple is stealing the idea and trying to cash in on Microsoft's work just as Microsoft did with Windows."

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Apple - but it's true. There are so many fanboys out there that they can't see around the fact that Apple is just as guilty as MS when it comes to taking ideas.

Since when is a company coming out with a slideshow or spreadsheet application (assuming Apple acutally does come out with this "Charts" app) automatically stealing from Microsoft?

Did Microsoft patent the very notion of a spreadsheet? Slideshow?

If so, someone better accuse Corel of stealing from Microsoft as well. (Look at the WordPerfect Office Suite.)

 

[ramblingman]

Charts? How about Data instead?

Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but I don't think Apple needs a spreadsheet app in the iWork suite. Apple could derive much more functionality by including a database app. Think of it as a kind of FileMaker Lite. I think a good name would be "Data."

For years, FileMaker has been claiming that their FileMaker Pro application can do more with numbers (and other kinds of data) than Excel can. So, why not come out with a "lite" version of FileMaker Pro, similar to the way Adobe came out with Photoshop Elements, or Apple came out with Final Cut Express?

I imagine that a consumer-oriented productivity suite such as iWork is meant to serve the small office/home office clientelle. A "Data" app would be handy for postal mailing lists, customer lists, and so on.

Comments, anyone?

 

[SkipNewarkDE]

History Lesson....

I find it funny how Microsoft is coming out with a competitor to the iPod and is including features in Vista that have already been in OS X for years... and everyone calls them a theif or a copycat for it. But when Apple comes out with an Excel wannabe, not a soul says that they're trying to cash in on someone else's idea. Let's face it, Excel has been around for ages, and Apple is just now coming out with their own version of it... same with Keynote (although I do find Keynote to be considerably better).

I'll be the first to say it: "Apple is stealing the idea and trying to cash in on Microsoft's work just as Microsoft did with Windows."

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Apple - but it's true. There are so many fanboys out there that they can't see around the fact that Apple is just as guilty as MS when it comes to taking ideas.

A little history lesson for you... The first spreadsheet software program was actually developed by one Dan and Kathleen Bricklin for the Apple // computer way back in 1979. Lotus 1-2-3 was the next major spreadsheet program that came along and Microsoft had this thing called Multiplan that started on CP/M but was ported for other platforms as well. Microsoft Excel (and Word, for that matter) was originally developed FOR the Macintosh, prior to Windows even even being out.

Apple released a program called AppleWorks way back in 1984 for the Apple //e, and later for the GS, followed by a Macintosh version some years later.

Apple is definately not stealing any ideas from Microsoft.

 

[mambodancer]

Visicalc

Visicalc was probably the 1st successful spreadsheet application and propelled the Apple II computer into the business world. Shortly after that, Microsoft introduced Multiplan. This spreadsheet shipped at the Macintosh's introduction in January 1984 and was the 3rd Macintosh application behind MacWrite and MacPaint. Appleworks was originally and Apple II product and was one of the first integrated programs for PC's (Personal Computers). Quark had a very early word processor called Word Juggler that I think incorported some mathematical functions but it was VisiCorp with Visicalc that really did so much for making the PC mainstream.

Excel was an early competitor to Lotus 1-2-3 that at the time was the dominate spreadsheet. Microsoft won that battle and the battle of the integrated apps against Lotus Jazz (Macintosh) and Framework (Ashton Tate).

 

[Shintocam]

I find it funny how Microsoft is coming out with a competitor to the iPod and is including features in Vista that have already been in OS X for years... and everyone calls them a theif or a copycat for it. But when Apple comes out with an Excel wannabe, not a soul says that they're trying to cash in on someone else's idea. Let's face it, Excel has been around for ages, and Apple is just now coming out with their own version of it... same with Keynote (although I do find Keynote to be considerably better).

I'll be the first to say it: "Apple is stealing the idea and trying to cash in on Microsoft's work just as Microsoft did with Windows."

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Apple - but it's true. There are so many fanboys out there that they can't see around the fact that Apple is just as guilty as MS when it comes to taking ideas.

Well, you could say Lotus was really the champ before Excel but I see your point. What I reallly find interesting though is that people are calling for Apple to include iWork as a standard part of the system (i.e. preinstalled). These are the same people who whine about Microsoft "forcing" everyone to use IE or WM Player because they are preinstalled and integrated into the OS.

Apple already include iLife and then goes on about how the Mac is so great because all these apps are so well integrated. Well what if I want to write software to handle photos, or make DVDs etc....why isn't it anti-competitive when Apple does it?

Microsoft puts IE, WMP in automatically, Apple puts in iPhoto, iTunes, Safari, iDVD, GarageBand, etc... all standard.

I really like my PB - and plan to get a MBP soon, but I must say the new Apple adds annoy the pants off of me and I see Apple going down many of the same roads as MS did. If Apple ever starts to make major in-roads in terms of market share they better watch out.

 

[Fukui]

Let's face it, Excel has been around for ages, and Apple is just now coming out with their own version of it... same with Keynote (although I do find Keynote to be considerably better).

I think LisaCalc would have something different to say to that....

 

[tjwett]

Won't that make you think then that Chart may then just be a chart like feature in Keynote &/or Pages?

Bill the TaxMan

exactly what i was thinking. i think Charts will be another inspector added to Pages and Keynote to add functionality to both, just like Numbers was.

 

[solvs]

Its easy to get a MS office Student licensed copy. That changes the $399 to say $130. This program does not need to be or is it offered to be upgraded that often. That means for the education user as soon as iWork is upgraded the $79 is already larger than the $399.

iWork is only $49 to students. You don't have to upgrade it either, as you haven't. But it's nice to have that option if the new features are worth it to you. For the price of the educational version of Office, you could have had 3 versions of iWork.

Not saying they're comparable, but there it is.

This $79 is the same for a new purchaser as it is an upgrading purchaser, as Apple has no upgrade prices for their OS or their so called Consumer Apps, i.e. iLife & iWork.

Nor is there an upgrade price for the edu version of Office.

If the new version is not purchased of iWork then one quickly fall behind as the Pages program has not reached an universal use level yet.

Neither has Office. Not until the next version. So you'll be paying ~$300. More if you bought Office X.

I still use Office because I think it's worth it. I got iWork '06, but I rarely use it. To be honest, I actually use TextEdit more than anything, though Pages is nice for flyers and Keynote is much better than PP IMO. I still actually use AppleWorks for some stuff too. If iWork '07 is good and Office '07 isn't much better than the current version, I know what I'll be putting on my new Intel Mac.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Office, Mac and Windows

We must remember, Office was released first on the Macintosh platform with Office 1.0 for Mac in January 1990. Windows did not get Office until version 1.3. Microsoft was the first Company in the software productivity business to pioneer the Office suite, others followed after. When you dig deep, Microsoft basically started the most of the successful Office apps on the Macintosh, Word, Excel and PowerPoint (formerly Forethought), actually PowerPoint wasn't released for Windows until 1990, 1987 for Mac.

In someways, Office undermined the competition but at the same time provided tremendous value through its all in one approach. When you usually would pay $500 for a single copy of WordPerfect, Word or Quattro Pro and Excel, you got everything for the same price, Wordprocessor, Spreadsheet and Presentation software in one suite.

So, some of us might see that as dirty tricks, but its the most sensible, well thought dirty trick that deserved to be created. As for undermining the Macintosh in general, No, I don't think so. A lot of things factored into the success of Microsoft during the early 90's. Apple's reluctancy to not license the Mac OS to thirdparty vendors, cheap IBM compatibles competing with each other such as Dell, Compaq, Gateway and many others.

Microsoft of course leveraged this with Windows, by providing a standardized platform for consumers to use and for developers to create an industry with tools such as Visual Basic. Windows NT further pushed Microsoft into a market where it further made them successful (the Enterprise) because they provided cheap networking and management tools once available as products you had to buy from Novell or Bayan Vines. Think about it, you had to buy TCP/IP at one time?

Throughout all of this, Microsoft continued to develop Microsoft Office for the Macintosh, basically through the thick and thin. I personally don't use Excel a lot, its there, but I rearly use it, but when I do, its the best choice for what I want to do, simple or complex. Word continues to be my favorite choice, even above WordPerfect, it just feels better and easier to use.

It will be interesting to see what Apple brings to the table with Charts, at the sametime, it will be interesting to see what Microsoft brings to the table with Office 12 for Mac. After playing with Office 2007 for Windows, its possible that such a new UI thats a part of the core apps, Word, Excel, PowerPoint might make sense in the Mac versions since the current toolbar with 1500 hundred commands and inspector is looking a bit dated.

 

[Demoman]

Its easy to get a MS office Student licensed copy. That changes the $399 to say $130. This program does not need to be or is it offered to be upgraded that often. That means for the education user as soon as iWork is upgraded the $79 is already larger than the $399. I've purchased Keynote 1 & iWork 2005. I did not choose to purchase iWork 2006 so my version of Pages is very slim. I already have more money tied up in KeyNote/iWork than in this last version of Office which already includes a spreadsheet.

This $79 is the same for a new purchaser as it is an upgrading purchaser, as Apple has no upgrade prices for their OS or their so called Consumer Apps, i.e. iLife & iWork. If the new version is not purchased of iWork then one quickly fall behind as the Pages program has not reached an universal use level yet. It is still a limited use product. But this can not be directly related to $'s. Many people do not purchace every upgrade for Office. They have enough features in the old version to keep them going. With iWork if this was the case we would have at least $79 * 6 or $474, providing the program is around that long. $474 is even higher than the $399 that not many users would ever have to pay.

At the school I go to MS Office costs $80. At UNL the price is $10. In this case the $79 is about equal to or many times larger than your not always the case $399.

By telling the truth it is very easy to get an educational copy of MS Office. If you just say you are a student, most places will still sell to you. I'll remain a student for many more years. By that time I'll be 70 or more & may not want to upgrade at all. Mac OS X upgrades are only $69 for students. Think about it & go back to school. It that way you can keep your mind active & get reminded in most classes why you use a Mac.

Mac User since 1984, Excel user since version 1.0,

Bill the TaxMan

Bill - your statement "Its easy to get a MS office Student licensed copy. That changes the $399 to say $130." is like one I read in a book, Guaranteed way to make a Million Dollars", when I was a teenager in the 60's. The first sentence was, "You have to find a way to come up with $50,000 cash". Well, I never bothered with the second sentence.

Your premise is based on someone getting an educational copy. That is an extremely small part of the buying base, and virtually all of business. If Apple want to appeal to the business market, they have to present a compelling reason to do so. Very soon, Apple can put themselves in that position. SW Licensing is a key factor. MS is greedy and has really pissed-off a lot of people with their predatory pricing.

 

[HGW]

nice to see apple's comming along with iWork, a spreadsheet is a integral part of a computer and there isnt much left to say the iMac hasnt got.

now if they'd only realise what we all know, games push forward the industry, be nice to see some iPlay software with multiplayer. (quality not quantity)

who says apple is copying microsoft, did they copy microsoft when they made iTunes or iChat. iwork is a given thing for apple

 

[KingYaba]

Hmmm, I dun care about iwork, i'll still use appleworks.

 

[Demoman]

We must remember, Office was released first on the Macintosh platform with Office 1.0 for Mac in January 1990. Windows did not get Office until version 1.3. Microsoft was the first Company in the software productivity business to pioneer the Office suite, others followed after. When you dig deep, Microsoft basically started the most of the successful Office apps on the Macintosh, Word, Excel and PowerPoint (formerly Forethought), actually PowerPoint wasn't released for Windows until 1990, 1987 for Mac.

In someways, Office undermined the competition but at the same time provided tremendous value through its all in one approach. When you usually would pay $500 for a single copy of WordPerfect, Word or Quattro Pro and Excel, you got everything for the same price, Wordprocessor, Spreadsheet and Presentation software in one suite.

So, some of us might see that as dirty tricks, but its the most sensible, well thought dirty trick that deserved to be created. As for undermining the Macintosh in general, No, I don't think so. A lot of things factored into the success of Microsoft during the early 90's. Apple's reluctancy to not license the Mac OS to thirdparty vendors, cheap IBM compatibles competing with each other such as Dell, Compaq, Gateway and many others.

Microsoft of course leveraged this with Windows, by providing a standardized platform for consumers to use and for developers to create an industry with tools such as Visual Basic. Windows NT further pushed Microsoft into a market where it further made them successful (the Enterprise) because they provided cheap networking and management tools once available as products you had to buy from Novell or Bayan Vines. Think about it, you had to buy TCP/IP at one time?

Throughout all of this, Microsoft continued to develop Microsoft Office for the Macintosh, basically through the thick and thin. I personally don't use Excel a lot, its there, but I rearly use it, but when I do, its the best choice for what I want to do, simple or complex. Word continues to be my favorite choice, even above WordPerfect, it just feels better and easier to use.

It will be interesting to see what Apple brings to the table with Charts, at the sametime, it will be interesting to see what Microsoft brings to the table with Office 12 for Mac. After playing with Office 2007 for Windows, its possible that such a new UI thats a part of the core apps, Word, Excel, PowerPoint might make sense in the Mac versions since the current toolbar with 1500 hundred commands and inspector is looking a bit dated.

In the American corporate world, maybe even the entire corporate universe, there is no concept of 'dirty tricks'. It is not even whether it is legal. It only matters whether you can get away with it.

 

[BWhaler]

Its easy to get a MS office Student licensed copy. That changes the $399 to say $130. This program does not need to be or is it offered to be upgraded that often. That means for the education user as soon as iWork is upgraded the $79 is already larger than the $399. I've purchased Keynote 1 & iWork 2005. I did not choose to purchase iWork 2006 so my version of Pages is very slim. I already have more money tied up in KeyNote/iWork than in this last version of Office which already includes a spreadsheet.

This $79 is the same for a new purchaser as it is an upgrading purchaser, as Apple has no upgrade prices for their OS or their so called Consumer Apps, i.e. iLife & iWork. If the new version is not purchased of iWork then one quickly fall behind as the Pages program has not reached an universal use level yet. It is still a limited use product. But this can not be directly related to $'s. Many people do not purchace every upgrade for Office. They have enough features in the old version to keep them going. With iWork if this was the case we would have at least $79 * 6 or $474, providing the program is around that long. $474 is even higher than the $399 that not many users would ever have to pay.

At the school I go to MS Office costs $80. At UNL the price is $10. In this case the $79 is about equal to or many times larger than your not always the case $399.

By telling the truth it is very easy to get an educational copy of MS Office. If you just say you are a student, most places will still sell to you. I'll remain a student for many more years. By that time I'll be 70 or more & may not want to upgrade at all. Mac OS X upgrades are only $69 for students. Think about it & go back to school. It that way you can keep your mind active & get reminded in most classes why you use a Mac.

Mac User since 1984, Excel user since version 1.0,

Bill the TaxMan

So, let's run another example using your logic.

A Convertible Mercedes Costs $50,000. I buy it in 2004, and drive it for 3 years.

In 2004, I buy a Ford Taurus for $25,000.

In 2005, I want the bigger engine, so I buy another one for $15,000 (after selling the old one...think of this as upgrade price.)

In 2006, I want the new leather seats and iPod connection Bose stereo, so so I buy another one for $15,000 (after selling the old one...think of this as upgrade price.)

Conclusion: FORD TAURUS' COST MORE THAN MERCEDES.

Surely you agree:

1. Upgrades offer more, and companies, all companies, charge for upgrades

2. You don't need to upgrade every year.

You can't factor in the price of upgrades because you chose to buy them. If it was a SUBSCRIPTION that REQUIRED you to pay annually, then you'd have a point. But it's not that way.

What you can do to figure out which is cheaper is go into a store, and look at the prices on the box.

iWork $69 for students
MSOffice: $129 for students.

$69 < $129.

Therefore, iWork is cheaper.
-----

But I do agree with your sage words on continuing education throughout one's life. It is a great way to keep the mind and spirit young, vibrant, and active. Great, great, advice.

 

[bousozoku]

A little history lesson for you... The first spreadsheet software program was actually developed by one Dan and Kathleen Bricklin for the Apple // computer way back in 1979. Lotus 1-2-3 was the next major spreadsheet program that came along and Microsoft had this thing called Multiplan that started on CP/M but was ported for other platforms as well. Microsoft Excel (and Word, for that matter) was originally developed FOR the Macintosh, prior to Windows even even being out.

Apple released a program called AppleWorks way back in 1984 for the Apple //e, and later for the GS, followed by a Macintosh version some years later.

Apple is definately not stealing any ideas from Microsoft.

Although Excel was being developed before Windows 1.0 was released, it had not been released prior to it. Multiplan was available for Mac at nearly the same time the original Macintosh was available. I was using it along with MacWrite, MacDraw, MacPaint, etc.

In any case, I don't see most people needing major Excel compatibility in iWork but it'll be there as far as import/export. Most people could do with VisiCalc but would definitely want better graphics than we had then. I doubt that

**********
****
********************
*

will work for anyone as a chart these days.

AppleScript support has to be strong. I suppose Automator support needs to be there, too, if anyone is using it.

 

[Fukui]

Microsoft was the first Company in the software productivity business to pioneer the Office suite, others followed after.

I don't want to start an flame war or anything, but thats just wrong. And there have been plenty of other office suites in the DOS world too.

 

[BenRoethig]

Does anybody think that the full version of iWorks 07 will ship with all brand new Macs when it comes out?

Damn well better. The intel Macs not shipping with a productivity suite is a step backwards by about 15 years.

whats a "consumer oriented" spreadsheet app? i dont want to dumbed down excel. whats the point of that?

Pages+Keynote+Charts+database= MS Works, but better. 99.9% of all users do not need the advanced features. While they're at it, a financial app wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[solvs]

While they're at it, a financial app wouldn't be a bad idea.

Doesn't Quicken still come with the new iMacs?

 

[BenRoethig]

Doesn't Quicken still come with the new iMacs?

Apple can do better.

 

[bousozoku]

Apple can do better.

So can Intuit. In fact, they do but they do it on Windows.

If Apple continually addresses specialises applications where a third party developer already has one, there will be a backlash as there was in the 1980s.