Apple 'Charts' Spreadsheet Application?

[dextertangocci]

YAY!!! I will get iWork '07 the moment it comes out if it includes a spreadsheet program. I HATE MS office, and anything else spawned from MS Every time I need to use a spreadsheet, I have to use Appleworks, which is quite limiting

 

[nsjoker]

cells is a much more fitting name than "charts" or "numbers", i really hope they go with that instead.

 

[Lollypop]

Apple can do better.

They can do better I agree, but they also dont want to kill of development.

I really think instead of writing a spreadsheet app apple should leverage the already integreated database features and rather base the spreadsheet app on that, and give us a consumer level database application with a few templates, something like a accounting template.

 

[bousozoku]

cells is a much more fitting name than "charts" or "numbers", i really hope they go with that instead.

Maybe too many people they asked thought that it was a prison control system.

 

[Sesshi]

I find it funny how Microsoft is coming out with a competitor to the iPod and is including features in Vista that have already been in OS X for years... and everyone calls them a theif or a copycat for it. But when Apple comes out with an Excel wannabe, not a soul says that they're trying to cash in on someone else's idea. Let's face it, Excel has been around for ages, and Apple is just now coming out with their own version of it... same with Keynote (although I do find Keynote to be considerably better).

I'll be the first to say it: "Apple is stealing the idea and trying to cash in on Microsoft's work just as Microsoft did with Windows."

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Apple - but it's true. There are so many fanboys out there that they can't see around the fact that Apple is just as guilty as MS when it comes to taking ideas.

Back in the days when MS applications weren't automatically king (especially on the Mac), I used to use Greatworks, a consumer-orientated office suite by Symantec of all people.

I was probably more productive than I am now with bloatware like Office because (barring crashes, which Greatworks did sometimes do rather frequently) I had all the tools I needed in a simple, fast, easy to use and good-looking app which was more integrated with each other and the OS. I was department head of an R&D section at that time so I didn't need to do complex figures, just departmental reporting, etc. Greatworks worked for me actually doing quite complex multi-media documents because everything was so accessible.

I like Pages and Keynote for the same reason, and I will probably like Charts or whatever it is called for the same reason. One thing I will keep in Office is Entourage.

 

[solvs]

Apple can do better.

Didn't say it was good, just that it was there.

 

[JFreak]

It'll be a sad day indeed when the last of us who owned and used a computer before Microsoft became a monopoly dies; the world needs the sense of perspective we can bring to it.

Yep. But unfortunately we have already seen an equally sad day as in the day when the quality of software was defined by the number of sold copies in the eyes of the general public.

People don't care. They think that "everyone has Windows, so therefore Windows is good". Everybody needs to die too, so it must be good

 

[GregA]

Charts vs Numbers vs WordProcessing vs Layout...?

I'm really wondering whether "Numbers" and "Charts" infer the same product (as people seem to expect) or something quite different.

Thinksecret is reporting that Pages will come with a choice of "Word Processing" or "Layout". Pages already allows tables which can have formula in them (just like a basic spreadsheet) - so perhaps Pages will come with "Word Processing", "Layout", or "Numbers"?

The layout tools of iWeb, Pages, and (I assume) Keynote are quite similar - just with different target outputs (print vs web vs presentation). Perhaps the only difference is the starting templates, and we're starting to see a genuine integration of content creation software. "Numbers" might be part of a printout, webpage, or presentation - but something a little more sophisticated than the current tables is probably required.

In relation to "Charts" - doesn't Keynote already have a way of converting a table to a chart? If so, could that same "charting" ability be a starting point for "Charts" used by Keynote & Pages? (and iWeb)

Of course - they'd still have to add the ability to import from Excel (for a consumer spreadsheet). Throw in Filemaker Lite for complicated stuff (and give it the same layout and charting functionality!). Personally, I'd add an import for MS Publisher too.

Am I way off base or is this feasible (as opposed to probable!). If so, is there value in making the end user THINK that there are multiple different programs when infact they're just different templates and objects within templates?

 

[JFreak]

Excel is one of the only things that MS has gotten right over the years.

Yep, but only once the 2007 version of Excel finally handles more than 65536 rows and 230 columns. It is the best software Microsoft sells and it took them more than 20 years to get rid of very restrictive limitation.

iWork should be bundled with new machines.

I agree. At least the non-pro machines should have it, as earlier the i-machines had the AppleWorks included. Once iWork has a spreadsheet app included, the AppleWorks is dead.

Yes, but the Windows side was what ~ 95% of the total market?

In 1989, Windows sales were pathetic.

Excel has only grown to a 64k X 256 matrix. At times it would be interesting to have over 256 columns.

Excel 2003 stops at "IV" column, so there are 26*8+22=230 columns available.

Apple has no upgrade prices for their OS or their so called Consumer Apps, i.e. iLife & iWork.

It's a shame. But they're a hardware company, aren't they?

If one wants to have the latest software at all times, it'll be a great incentive for one to buy the cheapest Mac hardware instead of upgrading software. Yearly fee for upgrading software is $129 for the OS plus $79 for the iWork pack plus $79 for the iLife pack -- whopping $287/year. If all that comes bundled with a $599 Mac (currently iWork is not included but I guess it will be), then the hardware would be effectively priced at $312 which one could easily get selling the year-old hardware for somebody else. I bet this is the reason Apple is not offering upgrade discount.

it is very easy to get an educational copy of MS Office. If you just say you are a student, most places will still sell to you.

It is also very easy to get it free by downloading a pirate copy. Distributing software costs close to nothing, so the price one pays is for the LICENSE, iow, a right to use the software.

Student license is not valid for a non-student. Using edu-software in a company is a license violation and therefore just as bad as using pirated software.

Just a thought

Did Microsoft patent the very notion of a spreadsheet? Slideshow? If so, someone better accuse Corel of stealing from Microsoft as well. (Look at the WordPerfect Office Suite.)

Perfect example of someone who has no perspective. You did not know that the spreadsheet part of the WordPerfect Office was once called Quattro Pro, did you?

(It's a shame Corel bought WordPerfect, as Corel has always been well known for inferior quality whereas WordPerfect was the King of word processing and I hated when Microsoft's marketing was successfull in forcing people to switch to Word instead. Bring back the early 90's...)

Microsoft had this thing called Multiplan that started on CP/M but was ported for other platforms as well.

I used that on Commodore64 in the 80's.

 

[jonharris200]

Charts... now I can make a pie chart of my holiday!

 

[Loge]

Excel 2003 stops at "IV" column, so there are 26*8+22=230 columns available.

Shouldn't that be 26*9+22=256? Alternatively just switch on R1C1 notation and you can see the last column is 256.

 

[A.Fairhead]

Apple won't be wanting to compete directly with Excel, as far as I can see. I can see Charts being to Excel the same as what Pages is to Word - a package which delivers a similar solution, but focuses more on aesthetics of the document rather than all the fancy bells and whistles Word and Excel both have.

Competing with a product line which for many people is necessary, would be silly - MS could simply pull the product off of the shelves and focus it on their own OS; the fact that Apple and MS, software-wise are approaching slightly different audiences, is a good thing

 

[Hattig]

The intriguing thing is how Apple will implement the software.

Will it be just like Excel - a stack of spreadsheets with limited formatting options within the cells? Or will it be more document centric - expanding upon the current basic formula-supporting tables to allowing full spreadsheet functionality within these tables, within Pages (final document) and Keynote (final presentation).

It would take a lot of effort and time to get an application that is as comprehensive as Excel overall, although there are places Excel lacks, and I'm sure that Apple produced software will allow the creation of beautiful spreadsheets. I'm sure they'll create a good consumer spreadsheet package though, with lots of templates for common consumer spreadsheet tasks like tracking finances, budgets, bills, etc.

I'm one of the people that kinda likes Pages for what it does, even if it acts like a bad word processor and layout package sometimes. I skipped '06 though, it should have been a free update.

 

[dernhelm]

I find it funny how Microsoft is coming out with a competitor to the iPod and is including features in Vista that have already been in OS X for years... and everyone calls them a theif or a copycat for it. But when Apple comes out with an Excel wannabe, not a soul says that they're trying to cash in on someone else's idea. Let's face it, Excel has been around for ages, and Apple is just now coming out with their own version of it... same with Keynote (although I do find Keynote to be considerably better).

I'll be the first to say it: "Apple is stealing the idea and trying to cash in on Microsoft's work just as Microsoft did with Windows."

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Apple - but it's true. There are so many fanboys out there that they can't see around the fact that Apple is just as guilty as MS when it comes to taking ideas.

Don't you mean that Apple is copying Visicalc?!

 

[iAlan]

[BAD PUN] Apple got it write with Pages, and Keynote presented a good option - so I guess it adds up to have a spreadsheet app as well [/BAD PUN]

 

[kalisphoenix]

What I reallly find interesting though is that people are calling for Apple to include iWork as a standard part of the system (i.e. preinstalled). These are the same people who whine about Microsoft "forcing" everyone to use IE or WM Player because they are preinstalled and integrated into the OS.

It's good to know that someone's keeping track of all these people. Can I see the list?

And please, please, read something about the actual trial of Microsoft. So that you don't look idiotic in a public forum.

 

[CrazyWingman]

Licensing: FamilyPack >> All Else

Hey - I just thought I'd add one more piece to the cost argument: the family pack.

For anyone that has more than one Mac at home, it's entirely worth it to spend $20 more and get valid iWork licenses for up to five computers - $100 total.

The closest I can come for MS Office is an educational site license for five computers at $275 total. I didn't get far enough into the fine print to know if this is available to any academic user or just institutions, though.

So, for multiple computers, iWork is definitely the least expensive solution.

[tinfoil]And for all of you who say, "Meh, I'll install my single copy on as many computers as I want - they'll never know," I say to you, "Genuine Advantage."[/tinfoil]

An additional solution: buy Excel separately from the bundled Office suite. Then the money that you're not wasting on MS Word and Powerpoint can be spent on iWork.

 

[BenRoethig]

So can Intuit. In fact, they do but they do it on Windows.

If Apple continually addresses specialises applications where a third party developer already has one, there will be a backlash as there was in the 1980s.

And if Intuit were to decide the Mac platform wasn't worth its time again, Apple would be SOL again. Quicken is a very dated product on both platforms.

 

[Gasu E.]

Goodmorning TimUSCA! Where were you born?
Remember "Lotus" and "Aldus Persuasion"?

Viva VisiCalc!

 

[Carl Spackler]

YAY!!! I will get iWork '07 the moment it comes out if it includes a spreadsheet program. I HATE MS office, and anything else spawned from MS Every time I need to use a spreadsheet, I have to use Appleworks, which is quite limiting

I've been completely happy with NeoOffice

 

[Gasu E.]

cells is a much more fitting name than "charts" or "numbers", i really hope they go with that instead.

... and an invitation to customer confusion or even a lawsuit from MS. Ex-cell, dontcha get it?

 

[peharri]

If nothing else, the addition of a spreadsheet will turn iWork from being a bundle to something realistically called an Office Suite (I'm still trying to work out why people call it that when it's just a DTP package with what really amounts to a special version of the same program for editing presentations - at least, that's how it's always been explained to me.)

I think a spreadsheet is a good idea. I think there's room for Apple to do something great, not a "low end" spreadsheet as many here advocate, but something like Lotus Improv, which impressed Jobs massively when it came out and which there's not been anything comparable since.

 

[BenRoethig]

I've been completely happy with NeoOffice

You're one of the few.

 

[MajorTom]

I have no real use for a sreadsheet app but i regularly use pages (2) and Keynote (3) and any addition to the suite is welcom IMO.

Just a thought but i would like to see a drawing app added to the iWork suite. I currently use Intaglio which to me is the most apple like drawing app i have tried, but i would still love to see how apple would implement this into iWork.

I originaly thought that a web-design app would be a nice addition to iWork and it ended up being added to iLife so maybe apple would do the same with a drawing app?

 

[yoak]

I will certainly buy iWorks if they include charts. I only use spreadsheets to make my invoices, and calculate the family income and expenses. Office is too expensive for just that