Apple Cinema HD Display - 20.1 Inches

[LeafyGreens]

Don't forget the Cinema

Originally posted by powerjack
2. Apple has been working exclusively with LG on the desktop panels (and AU Optronics on the notebooks...).

3. LG has a 20.1-inch 1600 X 1200 panel available, but does NOT have a 16:10 aspect ratio panel near that size.

4. No other LCD manufacturer on earth has a 20-inch-range 16:10 panel in production.

Thus...

2. There is (very likely) a 20.1" display coming very soon, but at 4:3 aspect ratio, using the Philips LM201U02 panel, at 1600 x 1200 pixels.

3. Obviously, the "Cinema" and "HD" parts of Apple's naming convention are simply marketing fluff, and have no scientifically precise definition insofar as resolution or aspect ratio are concerned.

I disagree. The name includes "Cinema". This indicates it is a widescreen format (16:10). If it was to be 4:3 format, they would call it a "Studio" display. Marketing wouldn't deliberately confuse people on such a simple and important point.

Despite the previous poster's insistence that no such display is in production anywhere on earth... I would suggest they add the words "yet, to my knowledge". Apple can make displays with whomever they want, and you are not the all-seeing eye. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that some manufacturer somewhere is making a 16:10 20.1" display for Apple. Chill out.

 

[nicmac]

Adjustable and Mountable

I hope the new screens are adjustable in all
directions and or complete with an adjustable gimble that can be mounted to a third party articulating arm.
"Now your doing something to help me"
Olie

 

[MOM]

iMac??

I didn't notice any mention of a 19" screen, as suggested for the new iMac. So are the iMacs staying 17" or going to 20.1" ?

 

[arn]

Re: iMac??

Originally posted by MOM
I didn't notice any mention of a 19" screen, as suggested for the new iMac. So are the iMacs staying 17" or going to 20.1" ?

this has nothing to do with iMacs. This is regarding Apple Displays.

arn

 

[JustAGuy]

I have one (small, potential) concern about this new LCD. If it truly is a 20.1" version of the 23" HD display, then we can expect all kinds of weirdness wrt font and icon size, since the ppi will have shot up dramatically.

I have no issues with infinite pixel resolution so long as everything on the screen isn't infinitely small. Now maybe if Apple came up with a way to render graphics on a ppi-independant basis...

 

[MOM]

Re: Re: iMac??

Originally posted by arn


this has nothing to do with iMacs. This is regarding Apple Displays.

arn

According to the chart: model number #M6498 (a 15" flat panel) is "system unit integrated." I was guessing that this was the iMac. Although, I don't see an entry for the 17" iMac.

 

[arn]

Re: Re: Re: iMac??

Originally posted by MOM


According to the chart: model number #M6498 (a 15" flat panel) is "system unit integrated." I was guessing that this was the iMac. Although, I don't see an entry for the 17" iMac.

indeed... or the Powerbook. But the 20.1" display seems to be a standalone Display - not integrated...

arn

 

[krhodus]

what if, instead of a comptuer monitor it was either a tv or a tv/comptuer monitor combo. You could download videos to an iPod and then watch them via a dock or other way to sync with the monitor. Just an idea. If they keep it the same, I expect to see a Firewire 800 port on the back.

 

[snarky]

HD= high definition

HD - is a high definition display.

Apple has been testing high definition LCDs at Steve's other company for a while now (as well as super sized cinema displays - bigger than 23"). The dpi to the HD displays is equal to or greater than 300 dpi.

 

[Over Achiever]

Re: HD= high definition

Originally posted by snarky
HD - is a high definition display.

The dpi to the HD displays is equal to or greater than 300 dpi.

That is not true. HD refers to being able to display HD content...that would mean 1920x1200, but i have seen it referred to 1600x1024, perhaps incorrectly.

Anyway, I can definately see Apple release a 20.1" 1600x1024 display for the same price point as the Formac.

 

[powerjack]

Re: Don't forget the Cinema

Originally posted by LeafyGreens

Despite the previous poster's insistence that no such display is in production anywhere on earth... I would suggest they add the words "yet, to my knowledge". Apple can make displays with whomever they want, and you are not the all-seeing eye. It is entirely within the realm of possibility that some manufacturer somewhere is making a 16:10 20.1" display for Apple. Chill out.

Okay. There actually is one 21.1" 16:10 panel made on the planet, by Chi Mei Optoelectronics in China. I evaluated it (their model # F8964 IPS) in December, and the image is truly horrendous, with only 235 Nits rated brightness, and poor color saturation.

My job includes finding our company a 20-inch range 16:10 panel... which I've been tryign to do for over two months.

 

[andrewh]

Well, it certainly goes against Apple's product strategy and marketing to come out with a non-widescreen format. But, 20.1" is suspiciously the same size as the Fujitsu lcd used by Formac in the Gallery 2010. I have the Formac display, and let me tell you it is fantastic. In my opinion, slightly better than the Samsung lcd's used in Apple's 17 and 22 inchers. I haven't seen enough of the 23" (LG screens) to form an opinion.

So, what are the possible scenarios? Yes, you can research what is available to manufacturers (as I did back in October) by going to Samsung's and Fujitsu's websites. But it is always possible that Apple could be using an LCD that is brand new and not released. A 20.1" widescreen for example. Unlikely, but possible.

It is also possible that Apple would release a 4:3 ratio display. A display that runs 1600x1200 for $800 less than the Cinema 22" is an attractive product. I'm sure Apple sees the attractiveness in that, especially in this economy. The Fujitsu/Formac screen is amazing. It is not impossible that Apple could use the same LCD in a beautiful Apple designed casing. Unlikely however.

No, I think this rumor is false. In my opinion, they will release nothing but widescreen -- 19", 20" or 21". Time wil tell.

 

[NicoMan]

Re: Re: Don't forget the Cinema

Originally posted by powerjack


Okay. There actually is one 21.1" 16:10 panel made on the planet, by Chi Mei Optoelectronics in China. I evaluated it (their model # F8964 IPS) in December, and the image is truly horrendous, with only 235 Nits rated brightness, and poor color saturation.

My job includes finding our company a 20-inch range 16:10 panel... which I've been tryign to do for over two months.

Are you spymac's powerjack ?

 

[barkmonster]

I'm expecting to see the new monitors come in three sizes:

Small: 17" wide screen (same as on the 17" iMac), $600-$700
Medium: 19-21" wide screen (1600 x 1024) maybe HD, $1000 ($2000 for HD)
Large: 23" wide screen (1920 x 1200) HD, $2800 - $3000

I can't see Apple robbing people with a $700 version of the 17" iMac monitor when they could offer an improved version of the older 17" LCD for the same price. $600-$700 for a 17" LCD with a non standard 1440 x 900 resolution is pathetic no matter how well designed it might be when a SXGA 1280 x 1024 monitor costs the same and offers a larger, more standard sized screen area.

The current 17" LCD Studio Display is low spec and overpriced even at $700 by today's standards. You can buy a Planar 17" LCD for under $600 or a Hitachi 17" LCD for under $700, they both have a 16ms response time (62.5 fps) which is lot better for video, watching DVDs, playing games and generally smoother on screen movement. The 17" LCD Apple offer at present is a pathetic 40ms (25 Fps) and it doesn't match the brightness or contrast levels of the planar or hitachi monitors either.

Charging $600 would be okay for the current 17" studio display, an upgraded 17" LCD with a 16ms response time and improved brightness and contrast it would be worth $700. The 17" Studio Display hasn't ever been worth anything like the $999 Apple charge for it. They need to drop the price, especially now that it's the entry level display for powermacs.

Saying that, I bet if they did release a 16:10 17" monitor, it would be a modern spec and look like a small cinema display. Everyone will ignore the specs and just marvel at how cool it would look.

 

[Bear]

Originally posted by barkmonster
I can't see Apple robbing people with a $700 version of the 17" iMac monitor when they could offer an improved version of the older 17" LCD for the same price. $600-$700 for a 17" LCD with a non standard 1440 x 900 resolution is pathetic no matter how well designed it might be when a SXGA 1280 x 1024 monitor costs the same and offers a larger, more standard sized screen area.

...

The 17" iMac/AlBook LCD is 1296000 pixels.
SXGA 1280*1020 is 1310720 pixels.

There is under a 15000 pixel difference or roughly one (1) percent pixel count difference. With this minor a difference, I actually prefer the widescreen 17" that the iMac has. Sometimes it's not the quantity, but rather how it's layed out and therefore its usability to your application.

 

[powerjack]

Re: Re: Re: Don't forget the Cinema

Originally posted by NicoMan

Are you spymac's powerjack ?

Yep. That's me.

And, for more on this 20.1" LCD rumor... I would invite everyone to visit MacOSRumors later this evening (Tuesday). I've heard a rumor that this rumor will be given a comprehensive, fact-based answer over there tonight.

All shall be revealed!

 

[Rower_CPU]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't forget the Cinema

Originally posted by powerjack
And, for more on this 20.1" LCD rumor... I would invite everyone to visit MacOSRumors later this evening (Tuesday). I've heard a rumor that this rumor will be given a comprehensive, fact-based answer over there tonight.

All shall be revealed!

Forgive us if we don't all click over there at once, MOSR has been a little "off" lately in terms of rumor quality.

Maybe this is their shot at redemption, but a rumor about a rumor?

 

[powerjack]

The Final Answer On The New LCD's

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Forgive us if we don't all click over there at once, MOSR has been a little "off" lately in terms of rumor quality.

Maybe this is their shot at redemption, but a rumor about a rumor?

Actually, I could kick myself, as I gave Ryan over at MacOSRumors my word that he could first publish some information I discovered about the Apple display roadmap... even though this thread is actually partly responsible for encouraging me to make the round of follow up calls today that popped up the answers. It puts me in a bit of a moral dilemma.

How 'bout this?... I'll just drop the news here, but without the background or sources.

There really is a 15.4-inch version PowerBook coming very, very soon, with 1280x800 resolution and 200 Nits brightness.

And, there really is a 20.1" widescreen LCD Cinema Display HD coming very, very soon, at 1600x1024 resolution, with 235 Nits brightness.

Both panels have been in production and shipping to Apple's assembly partners for over three weeks.

I spoke with the actual screen manufacturer earlier this afternoon, and confirmed both facts.

There... I've left off the sources, leaving this (for the moment) as nothing but an unsubstantiated rumor... still giving Ryan the shot as releasing the whole thing as a news piece.

 

[szark]

Info on the 20.1" display no longer shows up on the TCO site.

Pulled by Apple?

 

[Tiauguinho]

Powerjack,

You mention the 235 nits for the 20.1''. Do you have any info on the contrast? Currently the Formac 20.1'' has 250 nits and 600:1 contrast, with a pixel response between 15-25ms.

You mention that the new HD display will be 1600x1024... isnt that too low for HD content? isnt the minimum 1080 pixel height? If so, how can this Display be HD?

 

[JoeG4]

It's just high defenition compared to a standard display.

a 20" sounds about right. 1600x1024 on a 22" is sweet, on a 20" it'd be incredible.

 

[powerjack]

Originally posted by Tiauguinho
Powerjack,

You mention the 235 nits for the 20.1''. Do you have any info on the contrast? Currently the Formac 20.1'' has 250 nits and 600:1 contrast, with a pixel response between 15-25ms.

You mention that the new HD display will be 1600x1024... isnt that too low for HD content? isnt the minimum 1080 pixel height? If so, how can this Display be HD?

Sorry, but this all came back channel from one of my company's potential suppliers, after I tried a very obvious, "Congrtaulations on your deal with Apple!" ploy... that actually worked. The guy just started babbling, assuming that I already knew all about it. Amazing.

All I have is the diagonal size, pixel rez, the brightness, and the color saturation percentages (both are well above 75%... which is excellent).

As for the "HD" in Cinema Display HD in any way referencing the High Definition television standard, it just flat doesn't do anything of the kind. These are data display monitors, not A/V panels. The 23-inch "HD" panel doesn't match the HD standard, either. The Apple display's a 16:10 aspect ratio, and the TV standard is for 16:9 aspect ratio. This is so obvious, I can't see how anyone would be attempting to argue the point. All they're doing is confusing what should be a simple discussion for people less familiar with the concepts.

Back on topic: I'm anticipating the 20.1" Cinema to debut in conjunction wiuth a complete line shift to a completely new, improved, more ergonomically accommodating enclosure design.

We'll see.

 

[vniow]

Originally posted by powerjack
As for the "HD" in Cinema Display HD in any way referencing the High Definition television standard, it just flat doesn't do anything of the kind. These are data display monitors, not A/V panels. The 23-inch "HD" panel doesn't match the HD standard, either. The Apple display's a 16:10 aspect ratio, and the TV standard is for 16:9 aspect ratio. This is so obvious, I can't see how anyone would be attempting to argue the point.

The 23" is perfect for those who want to edit 1080i though, 120 more rows of pixels below the video for a toolbar or something.

 

[BJNY]

Powerjack,
Didn't you review 23" & 24" LCDs at SpyMac a few months ago?
Any drop in pricing on those beauties?

Also, aside from Sharp's 20" LLT2020, who makes a Mac compatible
LCD that will swivel to portrait mode?
Thanks,
Billy

 

[powerjack]

Originally posted by BJNY
Powerjack,
Didn't you review 23" & 24" LCDs at SpyMac a few months ago?
Any drop in pricing on those beauties?

Also, aside from Sharp's 20" LLT2020, who makes a Mac compatible
LCD that will swivel to portrait mode?
Thanks,
Billy

Yep. That was my piece.

The prices on all of these are tumbling nicely. My new best pick in the group is Sony's 23-incher at $2600 or so. Wow!

LG-Philips just dropped the wholesale price on Apple's 23-inch panel by $300, so, at retail, that should translate to a $500 MSRP dopr nearly immediately. So the big HD Cinema will soon go down to $2999 or so, which puts back into contention against the Sony, in my mind.

Sorry, my friend, but the pivot capability on the 20.1" Sharp display won't work with your Mac in OS X... nor will any pivoting display work with OS X.