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Why would we have seen it on Android? That's not an especially profitable platform. Nothing compared to iOS, in fact. Completely different business altogether.

Can simply look to the Mac. Most of the top apps for Mac are not available on the Mac App Store at all.

You are looking at where the Play Store ended up and what it costs. Others are looking at behavior. The "nefarious" aspect of "sideloading" is not about cost to purchase an app. If you are marketing your app it pays to distribute your POS.

I don't agree on the Mac Store - we are talking mobile, not desktop/laptop. Very different market.
 
You are looking at where the Play Store ended up and what it costs. Others are looking at behavior. The "nefarious" aspect of "sideloading" is not about cost to purchase an app. If you are marketing your app it pays to distribute your POS.

I don't agree on the Mac Store - we are talking mobile, not desktop/laptop. Very different market.
Mac App Store is a pretty darn good example of exactly what we're talking about, in reverse. In particular because it is from Apple, with similar requirements and restrictions.

Very few (honestly, zero) developers of high revenue Mac Apps took a look at the Mac App Store and found any reason to deploy their apps there. All they saw it doing for them was losing money. They were happy with the systems they had in place, the cost to run those systems, and their ability to reach users. The Mac App Store is great for the little guy with no resources. It is way to lose 15% of revenue to everyone else.
 
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And yet, the App Store is still filled with scammy junk...

This says something about humans and unregulated capitalism.

The quantity of scam apps in the iOS App Store is still less than what is found in android, which shows that there is value in apple’s screening process, however flawed.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
 
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This is such a silly argument. Apple isn't responsible for "damages" on the Mac. Microsoft isn't responsible for "damages" on Windows. What does that even mean??? I see this argument, among other nonsensical ones, parroted on here every time the App Store comes up, but seriously, what "damages" are you even talking about? And who is responsible for such "damages" today on other platforms that, gasp!!!, allow sideloading?
if people want to side load apps then you are free to buy an android.
Please don't ruin for us who wants trusted source to download apps.
once Apple allows to side load apps then iOS app store will look like MacOS app store.
 
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I hear you but I wonder if that is just a "saying" based on current behavior.
  • I buy from the App Store - except for things like MS Office or Adobe Acrobat, I investigate what I want before I make a decision. I feel safer doing that.
  • I buy from the Play Store - except for things like MS Office or Adobe Acrobat, I investigate what I want before I make a decision. I feel safer doing that.
  • I buy from the 3rd Party Stores (Android) - except for things like MS Office or Adobe Acrobat, I investigate what I want before I make a decision. I feel safer doing that.
  • I buy via side-loading - except for things like MS Office or Adobe Acrobat, I investigate what I want before I make a decision. I feel safer doing that.
Odd how the method I use works for all methods. Also works for Windows, MacOS, and Linux.
Add in 3rd Party for iOS/iPadOS and it will be the same.
you are smart and have time, but every one is not the same.
i download apps from iOS app store with out doing any research, you are saying you want to side load apps, so every one should do their own research before downloading apps just like you do ?
 
I don’t care what their business model is or how much they make off of it. That doesn’t matter to me. What matters is do they have what I am looking for and display enough information that I can vette my proposed purchase.

You know what Apple’s business model for the App Store has done for me? Raised prices, artificially limited my choices, and pushed a purchase model that is designed to suck as much money as feasible. Apple has, IMO, gotten greedy and lazy.
then you are free to buy Android device.
there are options for people like you.
 
The real solution could be that Apple relaxes the restrictions on Apps and only stops Apps that are spam or real security threats. Right now Apple stops lots of Apps that offer no harm to the devices owners simply because Apple does not like the App for one reason or another.
then there won't be any difference between Android and iOS app store.
for people like you there is Android.
 
The quantity of scam apps in the iOS App Store is still less than what is found in android, which shows that there is value in apple’s screening process, however flawed.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
thanks, if people want freedom to side load apps then they can buy Android.
they don't have to ruin it for us who wants an app store.
 
Mac App Store is a pretty darn good example of exactly what we're talking about, in reverse. In particular because it is from Apple, with similar requirements and restrictions.

Very few (honestly, zero) developers of high revenue Mac Apps took a look at the Mac App Store and found any reason to deploy their apps there. All they saw it doing for them was losing money. They were happy with the systems they had in place, the cost to run those systems, and their ability to reach users. The Mac App Store is great for the little guy with no resources. It is way to lose 15% of revenue to everyone else.

Not seeing it. Mac Store came from a very different beginning where Apple tried to shoehorn onto an established market.
It is a stat point. It is in origin and evolution the polar opposite of the App Store.

JMO
 
if people want to side load apps then you are free to buy an android.
Please don't ruin for us who wants trusted source to download apps.
once Apple allows to side load apps then iOS app store will look like MacOS app store.
Apple is the one ruining things by being so greedy. Take Epic. Apple and the App Store have absolutely nothing to do with the sale of V-Bucks. Epic built that system, maintains those servers, etc. But Apple feels entitled to 30% of any transaction? Unless, of course, you're Uber or Amazon or Airbnb or plenty of other companies that get a pass. Why is Apple entitled to 30% of a V-Bucks purchase but not 30% of a ride-share? When you do things like this, you're 1) going to upset certain people, and 2) draw attention for your unfair practices.

I appreciate that a single App Store offers certain advantages. I'd have less of an issue with it Apple didn't forbid certain kinds of apps and instead focused exclusively on preventing malware. Given how many scam and fraud apps make it past Apple's review process, I wouldn't be so quick to "trust" the App Store either. Whatever the app source, though, it's an intense game of whack-a-mole when it comes to stopping fraud. Personally I think people need to be more proactive instead of just expecting some big corporation to protect them. Buyer beware.
 
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Yes, social media does also have this problem. However, it's not "good enough for most users, companies, and even regulators" because it's clearly harmful to all the above. Well, not the companies; they find profit in every kind of laziness and abuse available, especially in doing as little moderation as possible. It's harmful to their customers and to society, but they have no loyalty to either.

If you don't think it's harmful, you must have never fallen prey to exploitation, abuse, or scams... or you somehow chose to blame yourself for it when you were.
I’m arguing against opening up the App Store so of course I think it’s harmful. My point is that most people on iOS have not been exploited or scammed but if Apple is forced to open up the App Store just like email and browsers are open, we will see a lot more abuse and malware on phones than we have ever seen on PCs.
 
If sideloading is such a problem for Apple and it's customers with the constant moans of 'security' then why haven't the tech media been inundated with news reports of android phone users being hacked or swamped with malware?
 
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Apple is the one ruining things by being so greedy.
Calling a company greedy in a capitalist system is like calling a competitive eater gluttonous. No ****. That's the point.

Take Epic. Apple and the App Store have absolutely nothing to do with the sale of V-Bucks. Epic built that system, maintains those servers, etc. But Apple feels entitled to 30% of any transaction?
This take is so myopic and overused. Yes. When you sign a contract that entitles you to revenue, is it really shocking that you feel entitled to the revenue that the other party agreed to pay? This happens all the time in business.

Unless, of course, you're Uber or Amazon or Airbnb or plenty of other companies that get a pass. Why is Apple entitled to 30% of a V-Bucks purchase but not 30% of a ride-share? When you do things like this, you're 1) going to upset certain people, and 2) draw attention for your unfair practices.
Because that was the terms of the contract. This isn't rocket science. If a company wants to charge for ice cream and give yogurt away for free, there is nothing wrong with that.

Given how many scam and fraud apps make it past Apple's review process, I wouldn't be so quick to "trust" the App Store either. Whatever the app source, though, it's an intense game of whack-a-mole when it comes to stopping fraud.
Again, the fact that they aren't perfect doesn't mean they aren't significantly better than the other options.

Personally I think people need to be more proactive instead of just expecting some big corporation to protect them. Buyer beware.
Personally, I think paying a big corporation to protect people makes a whole lot more sense that expecting billions of people to become experts in app safety.
 
I’m arguing against opening up the App Store so of course I think it’s harmful. My point is that most people on iOS have not been exploited or scammed but if Apple is forced to open up the App Store just like email and browsers are open, we will see a lot more abuse and malware on phones than we have ever seen on PCs.

While I appreciate everyone's viewpoint, for, neutral, and against, I have yet to see anything that say this change will result in waves of malware other than opinion. Many have tried to explain but even these fall short of supporting this significant potentially massive risk.

As a user of multiple OSs I fail to see what makes iOS/iPadOS so special in the risk arena. Based on the design of iOS, it looks like this is even less of a risk when compared to Android or MacOS. I understand the concern however I fail to see the reason for the angst.

Where's the beef?
 
While I appreciate everyone's viewpoint, for, neutral, and against, I have yet to see anything that say this change will result in waves of malware other than opinion. Many have tried to explain but even these fall short of supporting this significant potentially massive risk.

As a user of multiple OSs I fail to see what makes iOS/iPadOS so special in the risk arena. Based on the design of iOS, it looks like this is even less of a risk when compared to Android or MacOS. I understand the concern however I fail to see the reason for the angst.

Where's the beef?
To some extent, the argument against malware is a false flag. We don't know what will happen so we speculate based upon past platforms and current ones like Android.

The real issue is that very few users want Apple to be forced to change anything. iOS and the App Store work well as they are, so why should we open up the walled garden for a few users and developers that want something different? They have options outside of the Apple so they should go there. Apple users pay more for the walled garden and whether that extra security is real or just imaginary, it doesn't really matter. If Apple is forced to open up their store and platform, many users will leave because why pay more for an experience that others can also give you?
 
To some extent, the argument against malware is a false flag. We don't know what will happen so we speculate based upon past platforms and current ones like Android.

The real issue is that very few users want Apple to be forced to change anything. iOS and the App Store work well as they are, so why should we open up the walled garden for a few users and developers that want something different? They have options outside of the Apple so they should go there. Apple users pay more for the walled garden and whether that extra security is real or just imaginary, it doesn't really matter. If Apple is forced to open up their store and platform, many users will leave because why pay more for an experience that others can also give you?

Thanks.

Leave? I seriously doubt that. People don't buy iPhones because of a walled garden. Matter of fact, until this sideload became such a headline most users had no clue (in the iOS world) what that even was. Users have only one choice for apps. Personally I think Apple could have done a much better job and avoided this. But here we are.

I don't know Apple's solution. IMO it would be great if I opened my iPhone and saw, besides the App Store, an Amazon Store, a Steam Store, a Epic Store, a Dev Store, etc... instead. Side-Load (the term as it is used here) is a headline phrase to paint a picture and drive a narrative.
 
Thanks.

Leave? I seriously doubt that. People don't buy iPhones because of a walled garden. Matter of fact, until this sideload became such a headline most users had no clue (in the iOS world) what that even was. Users have only one choice for apps. Personally I think Apple could have done a much better job and avoided this. But here we are.

I don't know Apple's solution. IMO it would be great if I opened my iPhone and saw, besides the App Store, an Amazon Store, a Steam Store, a Epic Store, a Dev Store, etc... instead. Side-Load (the term as it is used here) is a headline phrase to paint a picture and drive a narrative.
If Apple is forced to open up their App Store, I predict a wave of horror stories (tech media loves to scare people, especially if it can even happen to Apple users) that will scare some users away. The actual inconvenience of turning on/off the inevitable new security features that Apple would have to implement will probably do more damage than the actual malware or hacking but Apple users want a good camera, reliable ecosystem and an easy/safe to operate OS on their phones. Apple customers buy Apple because they don't have to think about security, customizations, too many choices, etc. Once you dump all that stuff on them, there is little value left that an Android phone can't also offer.
 
then there won't be any difference between Android and iOS app store.
for people like you there is Android.
I see you have a problem with the English language. let me repeat it for you, "stops Apps that are spam or real security threats". You might want to get out the dictionary and look up the words you are unfamiliar with.
 
If sideloading is such a problem for Apple and it's customers with the constant moans of 'security' then why haven't the tech media been inundated with news reports of android phone users being hacked or swamped with malware?

Ars used to report on android malware periodically.

And man, their latest article couldn’t have been more timely.


My country has also recently been reporting on a number of scam apps where android phone users were tricked into sideloading scam apps which then phished them for details (often in the form of fake QR codes plastered in front of stores).

The police’s advisory even specifically calls out android phones.


Even the recent report on malware hijacking users’ Facebook credentials found more of such apps in the android App Store over iOS.

The news is there, if you have the heart for the truth and the will to see it.
 
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Ars used to report on android malware periodically.

And man, their latest article couldn’t have been more timely.


My country has also recently been reporting on a number of scam apps where android phone users were tricked into sideloading scam apps which then phished them for details (often in the form of fake QR codes plastered in front of stores).

The police’s advisory even specifically calls out android phones.


Even the recent report on malware hijacking users’ Facebook credentials found more of such apps in the android App Store over iOS.

The news is there, if you have the heart for the truth and the will to see it.

One aspect to keep in mind is that this is not directly Android itself rather a lack of effort by the OEM to flesh it out or test it through.
Malware preinstalled has been a periodic bane over the year - definite lack of OEM effort.

For the side load, that is new and have never run across it in all my Android years. Have definitely seen in it MacOS, WIndows, and Linux.

Not seeing any of these as stock Android installs.
 
Apple is corporation, it is not charity, i don't think shareholders would be happy.
Not an invalid point, but the shareholders should also be unhappy with how Apple comport themselves over this matter. However, if shareholders are happy to take the money Apple make from their own users being scammed, I guess shareholders are as much the problem.
 
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