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Apple claims keyboard fix is permanent...
- Thread starter kjvmartin
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To play devil's advocate, it seems the cost of repairs hasn't adversely affected their 2017 quarterly results. I don't have the link handy but if I do find it, I'll post it here. Its here from appleinsider or imore who published a snippet of Apple's financials showing that so far their warranty expenses has not increased dramatically from quarter to quarter or year over year. Additionally, public companies need to report material losses or the threat of material losses, and so far apple has not done so. My point is that there doesn't seem to be any hard evidence to confirm this is a major blow to apple's mac profitability [yet]
(yet)
The publicity, now that there's a repair program, is much greater. Plus now less informed people won't have geniuses telling them that it's their fault the keyboard isn't working and charge them a few hundred $/€. Or suggest reinstalling the MacOS.
Keyboard isn't working? Wait two weeks and here's a new topcase. See you in a few months.
The publicity, now that there's a repair program, is much greater. Plus now less informed people won't have geniuses telling them that it's their fault the keyboard isn't working and charge them a few hundred $/€. Or suggest reinstalling the MacOS.
Keyboard isn't working? Wait two weeks and here's a new topcase. See you in a few months.
Apple did this with the GPU issue in their 2011 MBPs. Replaced motherboards with exact same motherboards that failed the same way, just they didn’t fail again until after the replacement program had expired.
Also, if Apple did announce they had built a new keyboard, they would effectively Osborne the models sitting on the shelves.
Here is an interesting iFixit video made only a couple of days ago, titled 'Apple's MacBook Pro Keyboard Replacement Won't Fix Your Laptop':
kj wrote in #13 above:
"Bit it also seems highly illogical that they would launch a repair program to replace bad parts with the same bad parts, no?"
Apple has done exactly this before, with the "repair" for the 2011 MacBook Pro's that had "RadeonGate". Yes, they exchanged the non-working motherboard for a working one. But it was THE SAME motherboard, and could fail again. And often did.
I sense this is what they're doing with the MacBook Pro "topcases", too. Just "swapping them out".
I wonder what happens to "the bad ones"?
Do they get broken down, with parts getting re-used?
Or just "into the landfill"?
If that latter is what's happening, seems like the 2016-17 MacBook Pro's could become one of the most "environmentally-UNfriendly" computers ever...
"Bit it also seems highly illogical that they would launch a repair program to replace bad parts with the same bad parts, no?"
Apple has done exactly this before, with the "repair" for the 2011 MacBook Pro's that had "RadeonGate". Yes, they exchanged the non-working motherboard for a working one. But it was THE SAME motherboard, and could fail again. And often did.
I sense this is what they're doing with the MacBook Pro "topcases", too. Just "swapping them out".
I wonder what happens to "the bad ones"?
Do they get broken down, with parts getting re-used?
Or just "into the landfill"?
If that latter is what's happening, seems like the 2016-17 MacBook Pro's could become one of the most "environmentally-UNfriendly" computers ever...
It seems the employees I dealt with are mislead and/or misleading me.
I do think heat somehow renders these laptops more vulnerable. I run some fairly intensive applications that get the fans spinning for 1-2 hours at a time. I know people who are more basic users with no issues at all. For a while with my 2nd laptop I wasn't running intensive applications and there were no issues. Day/weeks after it got hot, the key failed.
I do think heat somehow renders these laptops more vulnerable. I run some fairly intensive applications that get the fans spinning for 1-2 hours at a time. I know people who are more basic users with no issues at all. For a while with my 2nd laptop I wasn't running intensive applications and there were no issues. Day/weeks after it got hot, the key failed.
Yes. Look at image below.
A single grain of sand (on the bottom right) has blocked the butterfly mechanism from working.
I am not aware that anything has changed.
A single grain of sand (on the bottom right) has blocked the butterfly mechanism from working.
I am not aware that anything has changed.
I doubt it’s heat. I run at close to max all day and haven’t had any keyboard issue. Looks like it’s crumbs and sand that block switches. Which also explains why I don’t have an issue.
Why? Do you live in a sterile environment? There are plenty of people who don't eat near their keyboard and don't live near a beach and still have keyboard problems. Even specs of dust seem to block the switches. Oh, and one is not allowed to sneeze near the keyboard too
. But seriously: There are actual tests that show heat deforms the butterfly switches because they are made of flimsy thin plastic. It seems the 'repeating' key problem comes from there.But you maybe lucky. Don't heat your laptop up to much though and never take it to the beach!
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Yep, but they have history - for example, the 2011 failing GPUs were replaced with... the same, faulty components that would often fail again later down the line.
By the same token, regarding the 2011 GPU issue, they really had little recourse in effecting a change. They did change the logic board/solder in 2012. Regarding the keyboard, they can slipstream an update into manufacturing and its quite conceivable that repairs are (or maybe will be) using a better keyboard.
Is there any documented difference in the failure rate between the 2016 and 2017 models?
I’ve read a lot of anecdotal reports saying 2017 is a bit better, but not sure how accurate that is.
I’ve just had my 2016 back from the store with its new topcase, and it’s had a 2017 keyboard installed.
I’ve read a lot of anecdotal reports saying 2017 is a bit better, but not sure how accurate that is.
I’ve just had my 2016 back from the store with its new topcase, and it’s had a 2017 keyboard installed.
Apple insider did an in-depth review of work orders and they show a marked decrease in keyboard repairs in 2017. That's as close as we're going to get with hard evidence.
Why the false dichotomy? Where's the "sent to a recycling facility to properly recover resources" option?
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Translation: sure there's hard data available regarding repair rates, but that's only going to be available to certain Apple internal employees... who would likely be out of a job in a heartbeat if they leaked the data.
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Just realize your thread title is inaccurate.
It should be "Some Apple employee claimed ..." and not "Apple claims..."
There's a *HUGE* difference between what some store or phone employee says (what you experienced) and something that's pushed out as an official press release (what your title suggests).
I'm not disagreeing with that.
The anecdotal evidence we do have, seems to corroborate with what AppleInsider did, however that wasn't an exhaustive study, and we really don't know the real figures.
And unibody macbook Top/Bottom cases. And old school MacBook top cases. And the MBP Nvidia issue.
If they change the part, it'll be a first.
I don't know why people think Apple has a good track record with keyboards. They hit the mark now and then, but my experience with Apple keyboards is to usually replace them as soon as I come into contact with one. Of course, that's not possible with the laptops, but when I was a MacOS desktop user, I tossed aside their keyboards as soon as the novelty wore off after a week.
The only exception I have to the Apple totally sucks at keyboards would be their original A1314 Bluetooth keyboard (and similar variants). Well, that and the original Apple Extended II keyboard if you want to go way back (but not the later variants of the Apple Extended II).
Maybe that's why I'm not as upset about the keyboard issue. Apple keyboards have more or less always stunk to me. I actually like the butterfly keys better than a lot of their other keyboards even if they've got reliability issues.
The earlier Mac laptop chiclet keyboards were pretty good. I don't recall hearing about any major problems with them.
Now contrast that with the number of complaints, class-action lawsuits and repair programs of the 2015-2017 butterfly keyboards.
It seems to be a night and day difference!
The 2011 fiasco has been mentioned many times in this thread, please keep in mind the *original* GPU fiasco of the 1st gen MBPs w/ 8600Ms, w/ supposed 'fixes' based on how it was soldered to the board, etc, 4 year warranty extension and all that jazz.
https://www.geek.com/apple/apple-loses-court-case-on-defective-nvidia-gpus-in-macbooks-1484061/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/so-are-all-mbp-owners-with-the-8600m-gt-cards-screwed.515067/
From what I recall the damages from that were estimated to be about $2B.
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Indeed the scissor switch mechanism "chiclet" keys were pretty much trouble free, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on the "pretty good" part. They didn't break, but there's nothing too remarkable about them otherwise. My comparison piece would be a Thinkpad laptop's keyboard. Those are fun to type on.
People blast the butterfly keys for being a symptom of Apple's obsession with thinness and willingness to sacrifice function for the sake of form, but the same was said about the last generation of keyboards. Everyone forgets how much bellyaching there was when Apple first introduced their super low profile chiclet keyboards. At first, most people were reviled at a keyboard that was basically not much more than an unergonomic wedge shaped piece of alumnium on your desk.
Apple input devices are about style. Nothing's changed.
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I'm dead. launchedbthe is the pinnacle of the usability of Butterfly MacBook Pros. Good luck everyone.
[doublepost=1530667643][/doublepost]I personally love the butterfly keyboard, aside from the part where it breaks. I find that my typing speed and ease of typing increases dramatically on these keyboards, in comparison to the other keyboards that I have used in the past.
I think that the risk is worth the reward, especially now that Apple claims to replace the keyboard under their new keyboard replacement program.
I'm sure Apple geniuses say a lot of things to placate angry macbook users.
I'm sure SOME of those things are true. I'll believe this when it is verified with a tear down.
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Good. I hope they bleed for this. They have the money in the bank, but really, i hope this costs them. A lot.
Maybe then they might see sense in making things actually repairable. It would have cost them a lot less if the keyboard was an individual, easily replaced component.
Welcome to the consequences of your design choices, apple! We've been dealing with it for a while now.