Apple Clashes With UK Regulator in Fierce Response to Warning That Could Require It to 'Redesign the iPhone'

[metapunk2077fail]

So? We've all installed software for decades, not "sideloaded," without the need for an App Store. Apple will happily tell you how secure MacOS is and then turn around and vilify "sideloading."

Incorrect in every way.

Desktop operating systems are fighting an uphill battle in recent times because of increased attacks. People who do not know this are either blind or haven't been reading the news.

Federighi himself said macOS isn't safe enough.

If anyone ****s with the security of our devices in a world full of dictators scooping up information on people who oppose them and send out cyber attacks daily then there will be hell to pay.

Pick a side. If you're reading the news today you'll know we don't live in a grey world anymore. It's one side or the other.

 

[alexiaa]

There are plenty of webs browsing apps available in the App Store. Is the issue they have primarily about the use of WebKit? Why is this a problem? How is this harmful to competition? Aren’t all browsers free? Why does it matter if the browsers have to be built on WebKit?

By forcing the system WebKit to be used in all browsers, it becomes impossible to get a lot of features and bug fixes in browsers without updating to the latest iOS version. And as you may know, software updates can often introduce a lot of new bugs.

Just look at the mess they made out of Shortcuts in iOS 15.0. We're now at 15.4 (releasing next week) and it's much closer to the stable state it was in on 14.8.1, but they should not have shipped beta software to production and took this long to fix it in the first place. They should have just delayed new features until they're actually tested and ready.

Especially since they purposely prevent downgrades to older versions past a week or so after a new update is released, citing "security" as a reason. But they also walked back on their promise to keep providing security updates to iOS 14 (which would have made this issue moot — it's already a common practice they follow on macOS) after releasing exactly one security update.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sideloading means bypassing the App Store and its inherent security measures

App Store review does almost nothing for security. They are enforcing apple business policies and little more. (Making sure Apple gets paid)

 

[metapunk2077fail]

The thing is they’re really not known about. The public have no idea.

The amount of compromised devices I see in the professional fintech market that actually put people’s data and wealth at risk is scary. It has got to the point that we banned anything but iOS for company phones and tablets.

Exactly.

Corporate computers and phones are so often locked down in every way for a very important reason. They are being attacked all hours of the day. You can't install anything on them without permission.

Some people are taking extremist social positions when it comes to this issue. 'Well I want to be free to decide what I do with my phone'

What about the rest of us, the majority of users, who don't want to see these changes?

 

[Agit21]

So MacOS is in danger because you can "sideload" app?

 

[Danfango]

Exactly.

Corporate computers and phones are so often locked down in every way for a very important reason. They are being attacked all hours of the day. You can't install anything on them without permission.

Some people are taking extremist social positions when it comes to this issue. 'Well I want to be free to decide what I do with my phone'

What about the rest of us, the majority of users, who don't want to see these changes?

Having met a few ”freedom” fans in that space I would suggest that they have no idea what they are doing or any clue about risk management.

 

[california_kid]

We prefer to be called 'Brits' than 'citizens' - way tooo 1984. And all upper-class Brits are required to have iPhones with the peasants forced to use Android devices, it's how we keep the riff-raff out and allocate lifeboats don't-cha-know...

LOL, my favorite John Lennon quote:

"The people in the cheaper seats, clap your hands. And the rest of you, if you’d just rattle your jewelry."

 

[steve62388]

You know, it’s funny. In my country the equivalent body just published a report about a different industry. It’s an industry used by literally everybody, the public overwhelmingly wants government to do something about it, the body agreed there is a problem. Their recommendations? Sweet FA, it will fix itself. Capitalism baby! ?‍♂️

 

[danakin]

I can side-load / install non-Apple software on a Mac and, as an adult, I accept the associated risks to my device and its warranty.
For those who want an unadulterated Apple experience, don't side-load. I'd fall into this category.
For the others who want to tinker, I say "go ahead" but only after you acknowledge the risks and accept the potential consequences to your warranty status.
Apple is like any other corporation; they're doing this to protect shareholder return. For the love of your preferred deity, stop the incessant and idiotic canonisation of a company that wants to extract as much revenue as it can from every customer.
Oh, and for the record, I'm a capitalist and don't have an issue with Apple making a bunch of money - just stop with the holier-than-thou BS; especially Schiller the jacka$$.

 

[azentropy]

There are some days where I'd like to see Apple just say "fine, we will be leaving XYZ market" just to see what would happen.

 

[GeoStructural]

It isn't, though. Sideloading means bypassing the App Store and its inherent security measures, and that has wide-reaching ramifications for both Apple and iPhone owners.

Security measures??? The App Store review process is incredibly faulty, the store is full of scam apps, knockoffs, and even popular apps are loaded with trackers. Apple's “security” argument is a lot of bs to support their unfair business practices.

 

[TheOldChevy]

I cannot speak for others, but this The CMA's proposition to allow alternative app stores on the iPhone or sideloading was shot down for "downplaying the security risks" and failing to account for "the fact that users highly value that security, and that many choose Apple over Android on that basis." is true for me, that's the main reason why I stay with the iPhone (SE in my case).

 

[mcnallym]

Because iOS causes incalculable damage to everyone even if you don't use Apple hardware. The impact it has on the wider ecosystems embeds discrimination against groups everywhere. Instagram has said that it discriminates against sex workers across it's entire service because of Apple's app store rules. So has Tumblr. So has Discord. So have countless other sites.

Apple's blocking of software at the behest of the Chinese government has likely gotten activists killed. It stops the business model of innovative services. It harms everyone, and it in no way provides security - that is simply a lie by Apple to enable it's rent seeking and anticompetitive behaviour.

That is easily fixed. These people can all buy Android phones and Windows PC’s then and completely bypass anything Apple does. How are these people FORCED to use Apple products.

I am sorry if this sound harsh and unsympathetic but nobody makes Chinese activists buy Apple.

Sex workers, again not sure how forced to use Apple products.

Users of Tumblr, discord, are they incapable of using them on non-Apple platforms.

If people don’t like Apple products, DO NOT BUY them. You also hurt there bottom line by not giving them money.

If a product doesn’t meet your needs then buy and use a product that does. Don’t buy the wrong product and moan it does not do what you want.

Apple almost went bankrupt because they made products very few people wanted. Look at there money value now, clearly people buying these products as they want them, presumably with the restrictions in place that they have, as otherwise why are they buying them.

 

[techwhiz]

It isn't, though. Sideloading means bypassing the App Store and its inherent security measures, and that has wide-reaching ramifications for both Apple and iPhone owners.

What wide reaching ramifications?

The only people impacted are those that decide to sideload and if you put the option behind a wall then it can't be accidentally enabled. Make it so that you need to be affirmative for every sideload.

It's a about money and Apple can't get money from sideloaded apps.

You can ensure that customers don't come to Apple with software complaints due to sideloaded apps if you don't do support while sideloaded apps are installed.

 

[azentropy]

The ramifications of which are already known and fully acceptable on the Mac and many other platforms.

Those platforms are no where near the size of iOS. iOS would instantly become the #1 target of hackers/scammers etc because of the huge install base.

 

[d686546s]

There are some days where I'd like to see Apple just say "fine, we will be leaving XYZ market" just to see what would happen.

They would lose money and people would buy alternative devices? Equally, if Microsoft and Google pulled out of supporting iOS the iPhone would probably more or less disappear in the corporate world.

Not that I see either scenario happen.

 

[now i see it]

I believe Pink Floyd devoted an entire album to this issue

 

[Will Co]

Another UK user here. They're pretty useless IMHO. As others have said, they don't represent what I want from my technology and they don't make valid points in that IR.

 

[gene731]

I am always impressed at how Apple's legal filings and other such documents are in lock-step with their general PR and marketing.

Also let me take this opportunity to remind folks that "side-loading" is just installing.

I’ll take this moment to remind you that side loading can be loaded on any Android phone. Now shoo! First why are you side loading people now trying to say oh it is only loading. Governments need to stay out of
companies business because there is no way career politicians know how to run a business. Government to Apple = yes, we want you you to put SCSI ports on iPhone 14 pro max.

 

[Pecka]

I believe Pink Floyd devoted an entire album to this issue

Animals? ?

 

[Havoc035]

unsubstantiated allegations and hypothetical concerns raised primarily by self-serving complaints from a handful of multi-billion dollar developers such as Microsoft, Facebook, Match, Spotify, and Epic, all seeking to make deep changes to the iPhone for their own commercial gain, without independent verification.

Basically what all of this is about. Epic trying to fill it's pockets.

Remedies that jeopardize Apple's holistic approach to security would effectively remove the competitive differentiation between Apple and Android, taking this valued element of choice away from users.

Apple dropping some truth here. Taking away the current restrictions limits consumer choice for security, privacy and a tightly integrated ecosystem.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

According to a report by Google barely 0.6% of Android users (which is admittedly a few million users) bothered to side load and 90+% of app installs are from the play store, even with Chinese OEMs and Samsung running their own storefronts.

The point is powers that be seem to think there is a usage case for opening up iOS along the same lines but honestly not even Android users bother to use the facility so why even bother? Who here has ever honestly looked at the price of an app and gone “I wish I could download it from another storefront.”?

 

[Realityck]

Everyone is parroting the line because apple isn’t implementing bleeding edge carnage like chrome and Firefox.

The browser feature set and the www these days is looking like an Indian train at rush hour held together with poop and sticky tape. It’s an absolute garbage fire and people have been sold the line that because more garbage isn’t being throw at the fire that the particular fire isn’t good enough.

I read that. If that is the case why are UK Web developers specifically trying to create such cutting edge scripted web designs based around other browser engines. Seems that could be argued in an opposite manner?

Here is a example from one of the developer contributor to third party comments.

One does not have to look far to determine that the browser marked leans very strongly towards Google’s fork of WebKit, which powers their own Chrome browser product, and Chromium browser project, as well as Microsoft’s Edge browser, and many others.

So it's very obvious that Google is messing up this marketplace. Don't blame Apple about everything that runs on a iPhone isn't the same.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

And one that many including me would be happy with. Slap it behind a big clear warning, sure. But give the option, like you have on mac.

The problem is, enable sideloading, and almost *all* customers will be forced to use it.
No matter how many warnings and switches have to be toggled before it works properly, you can bet that Facebook, YouTube/Google, Twitter, TicToc, Fortnite, pretty much all the big apps that everyone wants are gonna take their applications out of the App Store, and force you to sideload.
Their websites will have detailed instructions on exactly how to do it, and that’s exactly what customers will do. Open up their device to possible security threats.
Not to mention this means that those companies, Facebook, Google, epic, can blast past any of Apples privacy/security measures.
App tracking transparency, privacy labels, logs of how often the microphone and camera and location are used, etc.
They won’t have to follow any of Apple’s rules anymore.
I’ve seen some people point to the fact that not all android apps are sideloaded, but just like everything else, once Apple makes something possible people will use it, even if they didn’t before. Think of the whole AirTags stalking thing. There were very few articles out there about tile, or any of the other companies that were making tracking products having people use them for stalking. And then Apple makes one, and all of a sudden it’s a huge problem, and it’s a big deal, and it’s all Apple‘s fault.
The same thing will happen here. When Apple makes sideloading available, developers will use it, and then when the outcome is bad for customers, Apple will be blamed, even though it’s been available on android “but rarely used” for over a decade.
It’s different on the Mac because the Mac is a much smaller platform, and because The Mac has a much, much, much smaller focus on apps.
The vast majority of applications that are available on the iPhone just don’t exist for the Mac, because their desktop website is what everyone uses.
On top of this, even Apple admits that the Mac is less secure than the iPhone and the iPad. That’s how it’s always been. A full Computer operating system is very different from a mobile operating system, and the things that keep them separated exist for a reason

 

[page3]

I bet the UK gov is probably old people that get pop up’s they’ve won the lottery and send money to claim their ticket. It’s sick what they are trying to do. People LOVE Apple. If you don’t want it, DO NOT BUY IT. No one’s trying to change McDonald’s menus…

No, the UK government are actually a bunch of schoolkids. Have you never watched parliament in action?