Apple Clashes With UK Regulator in Fierce Response to Warning That Could Require It to 'Redesign the iPhone'

[The-Real-Deal82]

There are some days where I'd like to see Apple just say "fine, we will be leaving XYZ market" just to see what would happen.

Consumers would migrate to another smartphone supplier and Apple would lose all the money they currently make from that market. That’s the most straightforward answer I can think of.

 

[gibbsjoh]

As a UK consumer, CMA do not represent what I want from my device. If I wanted the compromises removed I would be using an Android device.

The CMA complaint only intends to open the market to abusive companies with poor security, subscription and ethical considerations.

Also a UK consumer here, and this is 100% what I feel as well. There's already competition in the form of Android.

I don't want Apple to be forced to open up to all the same sort of junk that we see on Android (and I say this as a sometime Android user - it's a mess). I want my iOS devices secure and have no issues with them being locked down. macOS is a different story, and I would oppose Apple locking that down much more than they have already. Either way, to seems to me it's NOT a competition issue at all. I and my fellow citizens are free to buy whatever mobile phone we want.

I'm also not sure about all the WebKit hate. Granted, I'm not a web developer but I've never had any issues w/ Safari on any platform so far.

 

[gibbsjoh]

When helped my niece move I used the Passat Estate as wanted the luggage space. I did not take my Golf and then moan that the luggage capacity was too small.

If you are a person that wants multiple app stores then buy a product that has them. It really is not that difficult.

Hahah I was trying to find a car analogy but couldn't. Tip o the hat to you!

 

[mcnallym]

I bet the UK gov is probably old people that get pop up’s they’ve won the lottery and send money to claim their ticket. It’s sick what they are trying to do. People LOVE Apple. If you don’t want it, DO NOT BUY IT. No one’s trying to change McDonald’s menus…

Well to be fair in the UK then we did pass laws regarding healthy alternatives, so McDonalds had to start carrying some healthier options.

Most of those have been dropped however as they didn’t sell well.

Surprisingly enough people didn’t think, I fancy something healthy, I know let’s go to McDonald’s.

Given uk governments track record with IT and digital technology then they should keep out of this.

 

[George Dawes]

I trust apple a whole lot more than I trust any government particularly the uk one ..

 

[azentropy]

They would lose money and people would buy alternative devices? Equally, if Microsoft and Google pulled out of supporting iOS the iPhone would probably more or less disappear in the corporate world.

Not that I see either scenario happen.

Consumers would migrate to another smartphone supplier and Apple would lose all the money they currently make from that market. That’s the most straightforward answer I can think of.

I don't believe that is what would happen. An extremely small percentage of iPhone users care about side loading. Instead users would chastise those government officials who forced Apple out for a dumb reason. That and the black market would explode.

And if not then you both prove others points. There are other options now, if you don't like not being able to side load then "migrate to another smartphone supplier".

 

[seclusion]

Just hope it doesn’t go the way of TV streaming apps.
4-5 years ago u could wait and watch pretty much anything on Netflix, new stuff on iTunes. Look what we have now!
What a cluster mess that turned out to be

 

[Kiimora]

Public opinion matters, regulators exist to protect consumer’s interests. To that end CMA can’t tell me what mobile device to spend my hard earned £s on! The allegations of anti-competitive behaviour is unfounded

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don't believe that is what would happen. An extremely small percentage of iPhone users care about side loading. Instead users would chastise those government officials who forced Apple out for a dumb reason. That and the black market would explode.

And if not then you both prove others points. There are other options now, if you don't like not being able to side load then "migrate to another smartphone supplier".

I doubt the vast majority of those of us using iPhones now would bother challenging it though. It’s often about what offers carriers are providing and I personally think people would just get what was easiest. If Apple pulled their iPhones from the UK market it would cause uproar amongst some, but I can’t see it forcing a tech revolution here. It would ultimately harm Apple more than the consumer because it’s not like there are not options other than the iPhone. The UK used to be Europe’s largest iPhone market (might still be), but even then Android is still very popular overall.

People on this forum often say ‘Apple should just pull out of that country’ without really thinking about the impact from a business perspective. Apple is wealthy but the billions they get from the UK still count.

 

[mingoglia]

Because iOS causes incalculable damage to everyone even if you don't use Apple hardware. The impact it has on the wider ecosystems embeds discrimination against groups everywhere. Instagram has said that it discriminates against sex workers across it's entire service because of Apple's app store rules. So has Tumblr. So has Discord. So have countless other sites.

Apple's blocking of software at the behest of the Chinese government has likely gotten activists killed. It stops the business model of innovative services. It harms everyone, and it in no way provides security - that is simply a lie by Apple to enable it's rent seeking and anticompetitive behaviour.

Dude, that is a heckuva stretch. Hoping this is hyperbole.

 

[MacBH928]

How do I say this?

Apple OS: Only allows apps sold via their store, and only use of webkit. My product my rules. Build your own OS.
UK: My country my rules. Don't like it? Build your own country.

honestly, everyone is free to do whatever he wants. If People do not like Apple rules, buy Android. If Apple do not like UK rules, exit the market. There are other countries that Apple can sell their products at , just like the consumer has other options to buy than an iPhone.

 

[Sedulous]

Because iOS causes incalculable damage to everyone even if you don't use Apple hardware. The impact it has on the wider ecosystems embeds discrimination against groups everywhere. Instagram has said that it discriminates against sex workers across it's entire service because of Apple's app store rules. So has Tumblr. So has Discord. So have countless other sites.

Apple's blocking of software at the behest of the Chinese government has likely gotten activists killed. It stops the business model of innovative services. It harms everyone, and it in no way provides security - that is simply a lie by Apple to enable it's rent seeking and anticompetitive behaviour.

Android.

 

[I7guy]

How do I say this?

Apple OS: Only allows apps sold via their store, and only use of webkit. My product my rules. Build your own OS.
UK: My country my rules. Don't like it? Build your own country.

honestly, everyone is free to do whatever he wants. If People do not like Apple rules, buy Android. If Apple do not like UK rules, exit the market. There are other countries that Apple can sell their products at , just like the consumer has other options to buy than an iPhone.

100%. If the UK over regulates, companies are not going to want to invest their $$$ when the government will through over-regulation usurp companies intellectual property.

 

[VulchR]

We prefer to be called 'Brits' than 'citizens' - way tooo 1984. And all upper-class Brits are required to have iPhones with the peasants forced to use Android devices, it's how we keep the riff-raff out and allocate lifeboats don't-cha-know...

Not everybody in the UK lives in Great Britain. *cough*

Anyway, I don't really care how this turns out, other than the prospect of Apple taking its toys home and not selling in the UK (and even then I am not buying any Apple products until they eschew local screening for CSAM on mobile devices). If Apple is made to allow side-loading, I will not buy outside of the app store. Although an app's being in the app store is no guarantee of quality or safety, I am pretty sure the risks of malware would go up considerably with apps sideloaded. Also, the WebKit-based browsers I have now are perfectly fine, so I would not download new ones.

Frankly at this point I distrust the motives of virtually every UK government move. I just wonder who got bribed.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

There is no way the UK regulator will allow Apple to change the design of the iPhone.

That’s just not going to work. Not going to lie, Apple is making valid points here.

Perhaps, but apple seems to be poor at arguing the legality. And that’s not the opposition’s fault for providing better legal arguments than apple to the courts.

 

[turbineseaplane]

15% might give them a little profit, they might break even, and they might make a lot of profit, but that's up to them - it's their business/ If they make no money on it they have to cover all these costs through other revenue and profits.

If they were charging 50% then yeah you might have a point.

If it’s “their business”, why would he have a point about 50% being too much?

With your line of thinking on this, they should be able to charge any number they want, correct?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

It isn't, though. Sideloading means bypassing the App Store and its inherent security measures, and that has wide-reaching ramifications for both Apple and iPhone owners.

I will remind you that you can currently side load with apples blessing for a 99$ yearly fee. And you get the ability to install alternative apps and App Storess. Even pirate apps.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I cannot speak for others, but this The CMA's proposition to allow alternative app stores on the iPhone or sideloading was shot down for "downplaying the security risks" and failing to account for "the fact that users highly value that security, and that many choose Apple over Android on that basis." is true for me, that's the main reason why I stay with the iPhone (SE in my case).

How interesting, can you perhaps still use the AppStore and not side load when apple makes the changes?

If Facebook removed their app on the store you can always login with safari or use other apps etc etc. or just vote with your money and not download apps outside the store.

 

[I7guy]

How interesting, can you perhaps still use the AppStore and not side load when apple makes the changes?

What changes are apple making?

If Facebook removed their app on the store you can always login with safari

That’s what I do…use safari.

or use other apps etc etc. or just vote with your money and not download apps outside the store.

It’s moot downloading apps outside of the App Store.

 

[maxoakland]

- MacOS hybrid model is quite successful in protecting users. A counter proof of the security disaster that would be such an hybrid model on iOS.

Quiet or they’ll ban it on Mac too

 

[Sophisticatednut]

That is easily fixed. These people can all buy Android phones and Windows PC’s then and completely bypass anything Apple does. How are these people FORCED to use Apple products.

I am sorry if this sound harsh and unsympathetic but nobody makes Chinese activists buy Apple.

Sex workers, again not sure how forced to use Apple products.

They aren’t, but apps sold on iOS are the lowest common denominator. So to allow any other platform users to interact they must enforce apples rules.

Users of Tumblr, discord, are they incapable of using them on non-Apple platforms.

Same thing. Tumbler on windows and android can’t allow content that breaks apple AppStore TOS otherwise iOS users can’t use the app.

If people don’t like Apple products, DO NOT BUY them. You also hurt there bottom line by not giving them money.

Doesn’t matter. If apple say tumbler/discord must remove NSFW content then they must do this for all users

If a product doesn’t meet your needs then buy and use a product that does. Don’t buy the wrong product and moan it does not do what you want.

It’s not moaning when apple affects other markets indirectly.

Apple almost went bankrupt because they made products very few people wanted. Look at there money value now, clearly people buying these products as they want them, presumably with the restrictions in place that they have, as otherwise why are they buying them.

iPhones are a status symbol. People use it for many reasons. Security is not one of them. Hipsters and technology illiterate people and teenagers doesn’t know anything how this works. Security conscious people are a minority

 

[Sophisticatednut]

What changes are apple making?

That’s what I do…use safari.

It’s moot downloading apps outside of the App Store.

It was about “IF” apple implemented any of these changes that the UK could enforce. Not about currently implemented things.

 

[I7guy]

[…].

Anyway, will see. Today there are more pressing concerns on the world than Apple problems with regulators.

Cheers.

yes there are. And considering there are many other problems in the world, Macrumors posters sure devote much time to proffering their opinion on how apple should be micro-regulated.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Basically what all of this is about. Epic trying to fill it's pockets.

Potato potato, ether apple or epics pockets are filled with money so a non issue.

Apple dropping some truth here. Taking away the current restrictions limits consumer choice for security, privacy and a tightly integrated ecosystem.

You will still be able to only use iOS AppStore and be as lockdown as you wish. Your security won’t be affected. And will have bigger worries about social engineering attacks to get your passwords stolen instead

 

[hagjohn]

I have no issues with the status quo. I know some do but there are other options available.