Apple Clearing Out 20'' G5 iMacs

[ssteve]

Does not make sense to buy a G5, every application developer is switching over to take advantage of dual core. Also, the graphics card alone in the new imacs is worth the price. I've been using the 17" intel imac, multitasking, windowing, quicktime, ilife, everything is sooo much faster. Once the pro apps are released they will take advantage of dual cores.

Why would you want to pay the same price for a machine when the dual cores have two cpus and better graphics ?

The new Intel versions not only are dual core (obviously), but Intel now has PCI Express and this comes with the new Intel versions. Maybe it's just me, but PCI Express is awesome. Especially if you do video editing. Unless someone just absolutely wants a PPC or they get a screaming deal on one, wait and get the Intel version.

 

[topgunn]

The review over at anandtech was a very good read.

 

[reflex]

NO WORD PROCESSING SOFTWARE?

Blimey, who would have thought that?

A £250 bargain basement PC has better software than a £1300 Apple Mac.

Most bargain basement PCs barely have a version of Windows installed. The Mac software bundle seems ok to me, though the computers are indeed somewhat expensive.

 

[ssteve]

Because I don't want to purchase new version of Photoshop and Illustrator (which is even not yet available now...)

All I can say is be patient for these to become Universal if you can. I would have bought a PowerBook last summer had it not been for the Intel announcement. This meaning that I have had to wait for many months. If you can, wait.

 

[peharri]

iWork is quality, comparable to Office, minus a few features people don't need, and the spreadsheet, of course. $79 is a good deal, and is about how much AppleWorks costed say 7 years ago (I know because that's how much I paid for it).

Maybe next year will see Numbers…

I agree iWork is probably quality (at least, from what I've read), but it's not "comparable to Office" as one is a desktop publisher with a slideshow app bundled, and the other is an office suite.

To be comparable, iWork would have to come with a spreadsheet and database management system, assuming Pages works well as a word processor. (I'm not going to debate that point particularly strongly because I suspect the answer is "Well, it doesn't, but for big, complex, documents it's a better match than Word, and for more basic stuff like letters and novels, TextEdit.app is a better match - and I'd agree with that, so I'm not necessarily seeing iWork as needing a "real" word processor if between them TextEdit.app and Pages replace that functionality anyway.)

These are important features. I'm disappointed MS didn't bother with an Access replacement in Mac Office, but at least they included Excel. Apple has a lot of options with both:

1. PostgreSQL is unusable for all but the most patient, technically knowledgable, user. Modifying it to make a "Lite", easy to maintain, version would be fantastic. That probably means making a single user version, and slapping a reasonable GUI on it.

2. For Spreadsheets, Apple has two big options. Building a regular spreadsheet package is relatively simple work and open source packages already exist that do the bulk of the work that needs to be done. But I know Jobs was a massive fan of Lotus Improv, and I'm sure that's a direction Apple could head in and get a lot of applause if they did.

Until it at least has a spreadsheet, it's hard to compare it to any "suite" of office-orientated applications. There's a lot of work already done that Apple can simply repackage and make useful. Apple can also push forward and do something truly great. I hope they do. But until then, they really should keep packages like AppleWorks alive, given they haven't replaced it yet.

 

[asphalt-proof]

It seems to me that Apple has to offer some sort of office-like suite bundled with the purchase of a new computer. And, no, a 30-day trial of iWorks doesn't cut. People now expect that there is going to be some office suite included in their purchase of a brand new computer. When people compare the offerings a Mac is going to look a bit weak. Most people don't equate Textedit or notepad with a wordprocesser. Most don't know its even there (mom and dad, Aunt Louise etc.). To have to buy a spreadsheet program seperately is just bad.
I was not a big fan of Appleworks but it did fill the role of having an office-suite included.

Can you hear the sales pitch: "When you buy a mac you get itunes, iMovie, iDVD, iphoto etc.. Everything you need to be creative."
"what about if I want to make a simple family newsletter?"
"Oh well, your going to have to buy MS Office for $495 or iWorks for $80"

It just seems wrong that Apple doesn't include that basic functionality in the price of the computer.

 

[peharri]

No I think he really means TextEdit. Most people don't realise how fully featured it it. It does tables. It does lists. It loads and saves Word documents. It can save documents as valid XHTML. It really is pretty good!

Was it massively changed in Tiger? I'm running Panther here and can't see anywhere I could insert a table or anything similar. Is this hidden functionality, or is this a case of "I can display it, but if you want to create a new table, you're out of luck"?

I agree that TextEdit.app's pretty good, I just can't see anything about tables.

 

[SiliconAddict]

The new Intel versions not only are dual core (obviously), but Intel now has PCI Express and this comes with the new Intel versions. Maybe it's just me, but PCI Express is awesome. Especially if you do video editing. Unless someone just absolutely wants a PPC or they get a screaming deal on one, wait and get the Intel version.

If you fully understand how OS X's graphics subsystem works (Hint) it becomes even cooler. Once Quartz 2D Extreme becomes fully implemented + PCI-E + a larger amount of V-RAM = OMG performance. Graphics cards have always been taken for granted as being most important for games and 3D rendering. OS X Tiger and Vista are two OS’s where the GPU becomes almost critical for the OS to perform at an acceptable level. You have to keep in mind that there was a HECK of a lot implemented in Tiger behind the scenes. A MacBook or an iMac with PCI-E and 256MB of V-RAM sound like overkill but wait until Leopard. Its going to be a must have, but not necessarily a minimum requirement, feature.

 

[powerbook911]

Sweet...I can get the iMac 20'' for 1399 with my student discount. I wish I had some rainy day funds for events like this. By any chance, is there any word on whether iLife '06 is bundled with this model?

I know this is somewhat off topic, but I am really entertaining the thought of buying one of these G5s. Any thoughts of using that apple credit loan program? I would really like another Mac in the household

iLife should be thrown in, but if it isn't, you can pay the $10 or whatever it is for the complimentary upgrade.

Apple loan now is just a credit card really. I wouldn't recommend it, unless you plan to pay it off during the 3 month zero percent period.

 

[SiliconAddict]

You really haven't used Pages 2 have you?

I've been playing with it at the Apple store. I've used it. For a home user who doesn't need to be compatible with MS Word it’s a fantastic package. From a business word-processing application. No. Just no. That being said if/when I get a Mac Mini for my mom I’d have no qualms about buying Pages for her.

 

[BenRoethig]

I'm not too suprised that Apple isn't bundling AppleWorks with the iMacs.

Yes, unfortunately, it isn't flashy enough for Apple. It's exactly what a family needs though.

 

[MacSA]

I've been playing with it at the Apple store. I've used it. For a home user who doesn't need to be compatible with MS Word it’s a fantastic package. From a business word-processing application. No. Just no. That being said if/when I get a Mac Mini for my mom I’d have no qualms about buying Pages for her.

I thought it was supposed to be able to open and save simple Word documents.

 

[powerbook911]

Yes, unfortunately, it isn't flashy enough for Apple. It's exactly what a family needs though.

I agree. I disliked the looks of Appleworks, for a while, but for the past couple years I think its pretty nice. It grew on me. When I need to quickly type something up or print something. I open up Appleworks. It is ready instantly and just quicker.

I'll be disappointed if Apple ever drops Rosetta, and I have to say goodbye to Appleworks.

 

[Hattig]

Maybe someone can make a nice package of free software to replace the old AppleWorks.

I'm not thinking NeoOffice/J here, because it is terribly slow.

Maybe Abiword would do as a free word processor, it's available as a native mac application already. Spreadsheet? Gnumeric maybe, but it'd need to be ported to a native version. Inkscape for vector graphics ...

As for a database, use postgresql as a backend, and have someone create an Access-like front-end application. Indeed it would surprise me if this hasn't been done already.

 

[BenRoethig]

Maybe someone can make a nice package of free software to replace the old AppleWorks.

Or (I'm going to get drilled for this) Apple contracts with Microsoft for a Mac version of MS Works 8.

 

[jobberwacky]

It's strange how the price of a product affects its perceived value.

Now this is truly remarkable, that the value of a good is modulated by such an eccentric feature as its price ;-)

 

[milo]

This suggests that the Core Solo would be a weak offering for the Mac Mini and the iBook, and a Core Solo 1.66 GHz may be no better than a G4 at 1.5 GHz. Considering its relatively high price, I hope we will NOT see the Core Solo in those machines.

I absolutely agree. It would make sense for Apple to offer the Solo as the cheapest options in the iBook and Mini, but they should also have Duo options or better available in ALL of their computers.

I wonder if the Solos will get used much by any computer manufacturer? Seems like it's best suited for ultra cheap PC's or laptops and that's about it.

 

[milo]

I'm running Panther here and can't see anywhere I could insert a table or anything similar. Is this hidden functionality

Format>text>table

FYI, there is a help app for Textedit. Typed "table" in the search box and there it was.

 

[robbieduncan]

Format>text>table

FYI, there is a help app for Textedit. Typed "table" in the search box and there it was.

I thought table support was added in Tiger? The question was from a Panther user.

 

[24C]

Now that TextEdit does tables, HTML export, reads Word docs better than ever, etc., I have no need for AppleWorks I guess. I liked it while it lasted! Much simpler than MS Word--in a good way--and plenty of power.
The spreadsheet part needs a replacement though.... Numbers?...snip...

We still use the database option in AppleWorks, so I am sad to see it go!

but I just told them to get a 20" iMac to tie them on as they use a Payroll package that only runs in Classic

 

[SiliconAddict]

I thought it was supposed to be able to open and save simple Word documents.

Simple docs yes. The app starts choking on OLE items added to the document (Which is to be expected.) also I've found that Pages lacks any ability to pull data from another source. (Check that any source other then Apple's address book. Sorry.) In office we are constantly doing mail merges pulled from an Access database or xls file sent to us by a client. Also when I went instore and tried a few moderately complex word docs using Word 2003 I found that for some reason it was having moderate problems with tables. Not all of them this from a document that opens up fine in Word 2000 so I don’t know what was going on there or it may have been a fluke. I’m going to try this again next time I go in.
Then there is the ability to customize your document template. Our office uses one single normal.dot located on the network that can be updated by the word-processing/graphics dept at any time along with the templates that are also on the network. This template has the names of all of our clients embedded into it so the end user doesn't have to remember the address every time they start a document. All they have to do is start typing their name the system pops up with the clients name and it autofills for them. The same goes at the end of the document where they simply have to type part of their name and it autofills. Very useful. There are about another 2 dozen other customizations that we do in our office to Word that, unless they are undocumented features in Pages, isn't there. Thinks like custom macros to do tedious jobs that are added to word in the form of a toolbar.

 

[Fiveos22]

Did anyone read the anandtech articlet?

I just read Anandtech's updated review of the iMac and it has some interesting things to say especially in regard to the iMac G5 kicking some serious ass against a single core Intel chip.

They sum it up pretty nicely at the end...

I'll close, as always, on a note about the future. We've seen that today, Intel already has the performance per watt crown with the Core Duo, and they also have the power advantage, consuming a third less power than a similarly clocked G5. Yet the first Intel based Macs are nothing more than the G5 versions with a different motherboard and cooling. You tend to not over design your chassis when you are Apple, you design them to be as sleek and as minimal as possible. With the Core Duo based iMac consistently consuming 20 - 30W less than the G5 version, you can expect that the truly exciting Intel based Macs are the ones that don't look like these. It's those that I would personally wait for.

We all knew the G5 was a damn fine chip (and current Powermacs continue to be very strong and competitive computers), so anyone considering buying a iMac G5 right now is not going to be getting a lame duck.

However, as more things become optomized for the intel chips (including the 64 bit generations in the future) Apple will have created a very attractive reason to switch to Intel Macs.

 

[~Shard~]

We all knew the G5 was a damn fine chip (and current Powermacs continue to be very strong and competitive computers), so anyone considering buying a iMac G5 right now is not going to be getting a lame duck.

However, as more things become optomized for the intel chips (including the 64 bit generations in the future) Apple will have created a very attractive reason to switch to Intel Macs.

I agree, and this is why I am waiting for another year or so before upgrading my iMac. Ideally it will have a 64-bit Merom or Conroe processor in it and be a definitive step up from the current offerings.

I also want a Blu Ray burner in my new Mac with Leopard pre-installed.

 

[ChrisA]

Has anyone used Open Office

A "universal" version of Open Office for Mac was just released. See http://www.openoffice.org/

Has anyone here used the Mac version of Open Office? It really is a complete office suite and has feature set comparable to MS Office. You can link spreadsheets to a DBMS via ODBC and embad the streadsheets inside a test document. You can even make DBMS backd web pages and it can read an make edits to power point slides. It's huge and complex just like MS Ofice. But unlike MS Office, Open Office is free and open source. I use it on Linux, Solaris and Windows XP systems but have yet to try it out on a Mac. I hear the Mac version is not as up todate as the others.

 

[BenRoethig]

I just read Anandtech's updated review of the iMac and it has some interesting things to say especially in regard to the iMac G5 kicking some serious ass against a single core Intel chip.

They sum it up pretty nicely at the end...



We all knew the G5 was a damn fine chip (and current Powermacs continue to be very strong and competitive computers), so anyone considering buying a iMac G5 right now is not going to be getting a lame duck.

However, as more things become optomized for the intel chips (including the 64 bit generations in the future) Apple will have created a very attractive reason to switch to Intel Macs.

The G5 was a floating point monster. It had severe weaknesses in other tasks though.