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Apple Collaborating With LG to Develop iPads and MacBooks With Foldable OLED Displays and Ultra-Thin Cover Glass
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Nope.
It can only reach the point of viability, not past it. All engineering decisions are a compromise and in this case the compromise is a durability over everything else. Which is an utterly stupid compromise for a device which is hand held and manipulated regularly. But you know you have to edge past competitor at all costs.
On the durability point, whenever you manipulate laminates they are actually literally breaking at a microscopic level. You can reduce the rate of the damage by specifying a minimum bend radius where the rate of breakage leads to an MTTF above the lifespan of the device. But you can't make it last forever. And the more complicated you make the substrate, such as depositing organic LEDs onto it, the more things there are to go wrong and the cost of something minute escalating into a larger failure increases. So statistically if you have 3 million+ LEDs on a flexible display, a naive estimate is there are well over 3 million interconnects which are being flexed constantly. A single manufacturing flaw or imperfection is a damage multiplier and just applying the statistical bell curve of failure over the sample size means that flexing it is quite frankly crack smoking level engineering denial.
Consequentially, the actual on the market devices have an absolutely horrific failure rate so far. I can only conclude that this is a combination of marketing and lies rather than some evolving technology constraint we're working through.
As for flexible display technology we've been working on this since the 1980s with virtually no improvements. I played with EL backlit flexible LCD displays in the 90s and those were considerably more durable than the modern displays because they were several orders of magnitude simplier. And yet those were never used in scenarios where repetitive flexing was required, only where it was installed initially and fixed in a static fixture, usually glued to a surface. And they had a shelf life and an MTTF which was far lower than glass bonded displays.
I don't think there are any magic beans out there that make this viable. Of course if you throw a few tens of billions of dollars into a problem like this which is focused on breaking a luxury compromise rather than a social necessity, a deep management structure, abstracted reality and fear of failure complex comes out of it. So of course we get crappy phones that the screens break when you bend them. And some idiots will blindly promote and buy a stupid idea.
Ergo, does this even sound like a good idea? Probably not.
I implore the companies that are pushing this garbage to do two things:
1. Put the money into software quality and device longevity.
2. Put the money into social responsibility projects.
These are far more responsible corporate goals than chasing a pipedream design idiom.
Oh OK, this guy ^^ played with flexible LCDs in the 90s and they sucked. We’re done here.
It behooves Apple to develop this tech, but I agree the chance of it shipping is low.
Foldable devices currently scratch easily and don't actually save a ton of space (since they end up being pretty thick to account for the screen or the curve to avoid damaging it.)
I feel like it's an incremental step on the "all screen wonder device" sci-fi ideal we'll reach eventually, but not one I actually want. The same way I'd love a Star Trek holodeck but VR just ain't worth it for me.
This isn't Slashdot. You might want to try reading the rest of the comment too and evaluate it critically.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I think foldables are a waste of time, but something like the device in the image would be cool if, IF that's as far as it folded.
That way the screen would not have to have a crease, or be made of plastic.
Still, I don't think the hit to durability is worth it.
All that said, as long as it doesn't replace my beloved iPads in the lineup I don't object to a device like this.
That way the screen would not have to have a crease, or be made of plastic.
Still, I don't think the hit to durability is worth it.
All that said, as long as it doesn't replace my beloved iPads in the lineup I don't object to a device like this.
Very good comment, this is one of those things "cool to have" but not at the cost you mentioned.
There is a less than zero chance that technology will resolve the problem of producing a rigid glass screen cover that is also flexible enough to bend, repeatedly. Physics as we know it would need change, which I can guarantee is not going to happen in anyone’s lifetime.
Today, the UTG being used on folding displays isn’t going to survive full time use for on-screen typing as a laptop. And if you use a plastic screen, your fingertips are going to micro-scratch the surface and you’ll end up seeing imprints where your fingers normally rest (F, J, A, return keys, etc.).
I understand the engineering challenges; but there may be a way to approach the problem from a different angle. The goal is not a flexible joint but hiding the joint line. If that can be achieved without a continuous screen that bends, then foldable devices would not have the issues with screen flexing.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
While I agree with durability concerns, I don't think it implausible for them to make the device last as long as a reasonable ownership span of 4 years, perhaps (I pulled that figure out of my rear). That is, of course, depending on the amount of "fold" this device would do. The rate at which people replace their items varies. All these variables should be taken into consideration (which is why we hear of Apple "testing" this).
I think it also must be taken into account that part of the "Apple experience" is how "cool" their devices are, which is why aesthetics matter so much to them (and us).
An iPad like this might be "cool" and bring joy and delight to those who choose it (same way a loud pink iMac does).
It's art as much as it is tech, and Apple has always lived in the corner of that intersection.
I think that Apple is already doing all of the above. There's no reason why they have to be mutually exclusive.
Conversely, and despite my agreement with you on those two points, Apple exists to make money. Let's not kid ourselves here.
The "capitalism vs social responsibility" debate is a WHOLE other argument entirely.
A 13" tablet that folded enough to act in laptop mode might be interesting, if it didn't have to fold completely in half. But the balance on a device like this will be all wrong, just as it is with the Surface, the Surface Book, iPad in a keyboard case or any other convertible. If the screen is heavier than the base, it's not much use on a lap or in many situations other than sitting immobile on a table.
Would love a foldable iPhone much like those low-end flip phones of yore. Make the outside aluminum, or a rugged rubber, so that when you drop it, there's no damage.
Apple could even add a mini-LED small outer screen showing time, alerts, phone numbers, etc. The foldable Pro model would come with an Apple Watch built into the outside!
On the other hand, as Kenny Rogers reminded us in the song, “The Gambler”:
The rest of the verse is apt, too.
Apple could even add a mini-LED small outer screen showing time, alerts, phone numbers, etc. The foldable Pro model would come with an Apple Watch built into the outside!
On the other hand, as Kenny Rogers reminded us in the song, “The Gambler”:
”You got to know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em.”
The rest of the verse is apt, too.
“Know when to walk away,
And know when to run.” ?
If only Steve could live till this date.
I doubt if anyone else in Apple currently have similar visionary in terms of adapting technology into practicality, productivity and intuitive user interface.
I doubt if anyone else in Apple currently have similar visionary in terms of adapting technology into practicality, productivity and intuitive user interface.
Yeah sure and it will be 100% USB-C connectivity, no 10/20/30/2 pin plug only USB-C...That way we Mercedes drivers can finally be clutter-less from wires/adapters.....Hooray
Apple is collaborating with LG to develop a foldable OLED display panel with ultra-thin cover glass for future iPad and MacBook models, according to a report from The Elec.
The report explains that LG Display will supply 17-inch foldable 4K OLED panels to HP this year, destined for an in-folding notebook with an 11-inch display when closed. LG Display has growing expertise in foldable OLED displays, having supplied the 13.3-inch display panel for the Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Fold.
The Elec claims that alongside its foldable OLED notebook panel for HP, Apple is collaborating with LG Display "to develop another foldable OLED panel." This panel will purportedly use an ultra-thin cover glass instead of polyimide, which most other foldable displays currently use.
The report is the second dependable sign from Apple's supply chain that large foldable devices are in development, since The Elec's claim appears to line up with a recent report from display analyst Ross Young, which said that Apple is exploring all-screen foldable notebooks with displays around 20-inches in size.
Young said that these devices could form a whole new product category for Apple and result in a dual-use product, potentially able to work as a notebook with a full-size on-screen keyboard when folded and as a monitor when unfolded and used with an external keyboard. The devices feature 4K resolutions or higher at the size Apple is investigating, Young added.
While Young described the device as a "foldable notebook," it seemed plausible at the time that the all-screen device could actually be a foldable iPad Pro, and today's report from The Elec's clarifies that the display panel in development is suitable for both tablets and notebooks.
According to Young, the launch timeframe for Apple's foldable notebook is "likely later" than 2025, with 2026 or 2027 being floated as reasonable possibilities.
Article Link: Apple Collaborating With LG to Develop iPads and MacBooks With Foldable OLED Displays and Ultra-Thin Cover Glass
You quite clearly have never used a foldable device. Nor have you any market knowledge about them.
Your conclusions are absurd and I really don't know why something as silly as a foldable screen has gotten your back up.
Most consumers are not sold on foldables yet. But we’re in a stage of progression where this technology has to mature and offer distinct advantages to the consumer. The only hindrance I see so far, isn’t necessarily the maturity of said technology, but the exorbitant price tag that will follow. All in due time, that should level out with the progression of manufacturing.
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I have actually. I spent a morning with a Samsung Galaxy Z we had in for testing one of our mobile apps on. It’s really difficult to actually use as a phone and the screen is stupid easy to scratch and I think it lasted three weeks passed around the QA team before half the screen packed in. On top of that you really can’t use it one handed anyway because it feels like it’s going to fall to bits. The screen fold has a ripple in it which is utterly jarring and catches the light.
As for the market, this is £1600 for the 512Gb model so clearly it’s targeted at people with less sense than money. So basically YT influencers, rich kids, numbskulls and posers. Which is an absolutely minuscule market in the scale of things.
Thus my assertions are absolutely spot on.
Can you image a cheap foldable android handset? At least the hardware will wear out before the software is abandoned.
