Apple Comments on Microsoft's Laptop Hunter Ads

[AidenShaw]

I'd go as far to say that it's fugley. A Swiss Army Laptop, which really needs to be renamed, a desktop. What's the point of carrying everything with you when you travel?

Yes, it's a desktop replacement.

The people who buy them are looking at specs and performance. Weight, size and battery life are unimportant - these machines are going to spend their time on a desk connected to the wall.

Why do you have this tunnel vision that everyone who buys a laptop is a road warrior, only concerned about weight and battery life? Drop your conceit, and think about what might be important to other people.

 

[AidenShaw]

Thus, the eSATA port on this HP laptop is a "normal" eSATA port, not a power-over eSATA.

Can you prove that?

My new Latitude XT2 12.1" has an eSATA external DVD writer with Power Over eSATA - but nothing in its spec sheet mentions that.

Did you know that 802.11n is still not a spec, although widely available?

 

[DMann]

Yes, it's a desktop replacement.

Precisely, they ought to market it as such, and not peddle it as a Laptop. You know for a fact, that all people who purchase what is classified a 'laptop' intend to utilize it as a desktop? Tunnel vision takes on a new meaning now. Nice theory, speaking of conceit.

 

[-hh]

...
My new Latitude XT2 12.1" has an eSATA external DVD writer with Power Over eSATA - but nothing in its spec sheet mentions that.

Which means that you're admitting that you can't prove that claim either.

Did you know that 802.11n is still not a spec, although widely available?

I didn't say that "Cart before the Horse" can't ever be successful.

The point is that adoption risk is always higher when there's not any agreed-upon interface standard...

Only time will tell if the interface method of your current DVD writer will be the one that becomes the common standard. Since its probably only a $50 peripheral, you might not care if it functionally has a lifespan only equal to that particular laptop...but the risk:benefit may conclude differently if it were a $500 LCD monitor (alluding to some of Apple's "funny pluggy" stuff over the year)

Yes, I'm being critical of proprietary interfaces no matter who makes them.

It comes down to the question of if one is willing to take the risk of 'White Elephant' as the early adopter, and this has been with us for decades. For example, I can recall how the 3.5" floppy disk went through seven (7) different formats in use in our office in a period of only ~5 years (FYI, it was 3 variants on Mac ... and 4 more variants on PCs).

And FWIW, having a published standard helps reduce the risk which mostly falls upon just the Early Adopter...but its still not a guarantee of success. Afterall, both HD-DVD & Blu-Ray had standards

-hh

 

[Sehnsucht]

Let's count:

• 4 USB ports
• eSATA port (shared with 1 USB port)
• 1394 port
• 5 in 1 media card reader
• Ethernet RJ45
• ExpressCard 54
• HDMI
• Docking expansion port
• VGA
• Antenna for built-in HDTV tuner

Built-in media card readers are retarded, I prefer my 1394 external 12-in-one.

Nobody uses VGA anymore, it's time to join the digital revolution and get DVI or DisplayPort. HDMI is indeed digital, but found on relatively few displays as of yet.

Also, I notice this laptop's 1394 port is a four-pin, which doesn't supply voltage. So I guess no external hard drives. FireWire 800 please.

As for the rest of those "holes", I've got nothing against them, I think the fugliness comes from the awful chunky shape of the frame itself.

Oh yes, and it comes with Vista. There's a hole for you! No thanks.

 

[AidenShaw]

Precisely, they ought to market it as such, and not peddle it as a Laptop. You know for a fact, that all people who purchase what is classified a 'laptop' intend to utilize it as a desktop? Tunnel vision takes on a new meaning now. Nice theory, speaking of conceit.

Some people consider an Imac to be a portable...

"Desktop replacement" is a description of a class of laptops, not a requirement that the system cannot be carried around.

Which means that you're admitting that you can't prove that claim either.

I was wrong - the Dell eSATA external drives aren't Power Over eSATA. The Dell laptop eSATA port is a single port that's both eSATA and USB 2.0. The Dell eSATA DVD drive cable has two additional pins that grab the USB power in the port.

Nobody uses VGA anymore

Some people must: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB572Z/A

 

[-hh]

Some people consider an Imac to be a portable...

I can recall having a carry-case for a Mac Plus...and occasaionlly using it. And back in the 1970s, an older brother had a "Portable" calculator - - he got screwed during an exam because the 6ft power cord ended in a 3 prong plug and he didn't have an adaptor for the 2 prong outlet that he had scouted out. He was thus forced to 'fall back' to using his $300 slide rule.

"Desktop replacement" is a description of a class of laptops, not a requirement that the system cannot be carried around.

There's a few euphanisms...another one is the "luggable".

In general, what these desktop replacement laptops are effectively is a market segment that is voting with their wallet and saying that the form factor (including its ability to be "lugged" occasionally) is more important to them than the upgradability of a tower (or minitower). The recurring proponents of the infamous xMac should keep this in mind.

I was wrong - the Dell eSATA external drives aren't Power Over eSATA. The Dell laptop eSATA port is a single port that's both eSATA and USB 2.0. The Dell eSATA DVD drive cable has two additional pins that grab the USB power in the port.

Not a problem.

Currently, it does do what you need it to do, and with that level of expecatations, everything is fine.

My point was in looking at the Roger's Innovation Adoption Curve for where power-over-eSATA stands. It is currently in the realm of Innovators/Early Adopters phase (definitions). My observation is merely that this is also where there's the highest risk of "White Elephant" configuration attempts which will fail to make the leap to mainstream (Early/Late Majority) and thus become orphans.

Thus, because of this non-insignificant adoption risk, the degree to which we should consider that paticular I/O port to really be a "Feature" (or not) is subject to debate & interpretation.

Afterall, if the choice is between an I/O port only has one device that can be effectively plugged into it, versus another I/O port that can take 50 different products, even if none of them are quite as good...which one really is "Better"?


-hh

 

[DMann]

Some people consider an Imac to be a portable...

"Desktop replacement" is a description of a class of laptops, not a requirement that the system cannot be carried around.

Some people consider the Mac Pro to be a portable - notice handles for easy carrying. Perhaps, according to your logic, it ought to be renamed, the Mac Pro Totable.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Some people consider an iMac to be a portable...

The hideousness of the Dells I have to use make dragging my heavy iMac with me worth it.

Especially when I can't use the Dells at all:

Some people must: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB572Z/A

Yes, I do seem to recall all 10 of those people complaining that the adapter is $30.

 

[Wikinerd]

Some people consider an Imac to be a portable...

"Desktop replacement" is a description of a class of laptops, not a requirement that the system cannot be carried around.

Apple never marketed that iMac as a "laptop"...

 

[AidenShaw]

Apple never marketed that iMac as a "laptop"...

My point is that "portable" means different things to different people.

I personally consider a 17" to be a desktop - even the 17" aluminum Apple. For me, it's much too big to consider carrying around. 14" is what I consider a big laptop, and most of the time I have my 12" Dell Latitude XT (which fits loosely in an MBA sleeve) or netbook.

So, there's no justification for the original poster to say that machine X (which obviously looks like and has all the features of a laptop) should be called a "desktop" because the original poster feels like some spec on the machine is "un-laptop-like".

 

[tubbymac]

The people who buy them are looking at specs and performance. Weight, size and battery life are unimportant - these machines are going to spend their time on a desk connected to the wall.

My new Latitude XT2 12.1" has an eSATA external DVD writer with Power Over eSATA - but nothing in its spec sheet mentions that.

Good point on the notebooks as a desktop replacement. A lot of people who buy notebooks these days are buying them not to lug around, but to sit on their desktop all day. That's a market well catered to by the PC notebook vendors. When it's going to sit on a desk and not really ever be seen by anybody else, things like weight and looks come second to price and performance/features.

That's why I got my Dell Latitude after I already have a Macbook and a Macbook Air. The thing is 15 inches, very plain looking, but it's going to sit on a desk most of the time so I don't care about the aesthetics or the weight.

That XT2 you got is nice. These days the only good screens are the IPS ones on high end tablet machines like that. I wish Apple would go against the grain and not offer such junk TN panels on their notebooks like the rest of the industry and have the balls to put out some even more expensive models with quality IPS screens.

The hideousness of the Dells I have to use make dragging my heavy iMac with me worth it.

Ug, your school really went with the bargain bin stuff there. Those Dell monitors are the low end cheapo stuff. That Dell keyboard is probably worth like 2 bucks and is the cheapest one you can buy. The machine underneath the desk looks like some junk consumer grade Dimension model too.

I'd probably carry around an iMac too if I was forced to use that garbage, lol. Why not just work from home? Or do they make you use the lab for some reason? Comp labs have always sucked unless you get access to the research labs with the supercomputers.

As for built in card readers. I tried transferring photos over wireless cards and USB connections for a while and then tried using an SD card slot instead. I can't go back to wireless (too slow) or USB (annoying cable) and am now hooked on using SD/express cards instead.

 

[-hh]

Apple never marketed that iMac as a "laptop"...

Probably so, but the original Mac's (Mac 128-512-Plus) were featured in a TV commercial as a "luggable".

IIRC, the catchphrase was something along the lines of...

"What do you mean, that they're bringing their HOME computers to WORK?"

-hh

 

[Sehnsucht]

I wish Apple would go against the grain and not offer such junk TN panels on their notebooks like the rest of the industry and have the balls to put out some even more expensive models with quality IPS screens.

When will Apple figure out that there are HORDES of salivating people WAITING to hand them tons of money if they'd just do this exact thing! Sure, there'd be lots of bitching on MR about the price, but sales would absolutely go through the roof (especially if these new laptops also used TI FireWire chipsets.)

Ugh, your school really went with the bargain bin stuff there. Those Dell monitors are the low end cheapo stuff. That Dell keyboard is probably worth like 2 bucks and is the cheapest one you can buy. The machine underneath the desk looks like some junk consumer grade Dimension model too.

The keyboard is OK, but the Optiplexes themselves are hideous. They are slow as f**k, freeze and crash often, especially when trying to run several Adobe apps at once. It really pisses me off when I'm in Photoshop working on a project and the hourglass comes up, I don't know whether it's busy drawing my brush strokes or if it froze. I just have to wait 10 minutes to find out, that's the fun. My class is Web Design, which only uses the Adobe suite, but I really feel sorry for the students across the hall in 3D Animation who have use the same Optiplexes to run freaking MAYA. Their systems might have an extra gig of RAM and a slightly better video card, but they do have the exact same hideous square monitors. I've actually considered complaining about the computers to the school administrators since they're unusable and I'm paying $1,500 tuition to take classes there. At that price, the school should have a Mac-Pro sized budget to work with.

I'd probably carry around an iMac too if I was forced to use that garbage, lol. Why not just work from home? Or do they make you use the lab for some reason? Comp labs have always sucked unless you get access to the research labs with the supercomputers.

My schedule. If I'm not at school, then I'm at work.

Actually, there are several colleges in this area that I'm looking at---I may go with the one that uses Macs exclusively, but it'd be a trade off of sorts since this is a religious college, probably full of nutcases.

 

[Pika]

New Microsoft Ad

 

[polaris20]

New Microsoft Ad

This has got to be the most retarded of them all.

Editing HD video right now on my 2.4Ghz UMBP. Yeah, I know. I went ahead and splurged for the 4GB from OWC for $50.

 

[shelby-vn]

I understand that when someone chooses a computer other than a Mac they are 99% sure to be buying Windows with it, but it just kind of irks me a bit when these commercials seem to be Microsoft taking credit for hardware that they have nothing to do with, save mere compatibility

 

[edwardh]

OMG, look at how ugly - the sides are full of holes.

Let's count:

• 4 USB ports
• eSATA port (shared with 1 USB port)
• 1394 port
• 5 in 1 media card reader
• Ethernet RJ45
• ExpressCard 54
• HDMI
• Docking expansion port
• VGA
• Antenna for builtin HDTV tuner

Wow, what a bunch of ugly crap in a $1050 17.3" system with available Blu-ray and quad-core options!

(...I'm in the function over form camp - I'll take the extra holes over a crippled but pretty Apple laptop )

Ports on the sides of the computers are a necessity and do not make them look "ugly". Gone are the days when notebook PC ports had door covers that broke and got lost. If you closely look at the last Powerbook G4 and the previous generation (Non-Unibody) MacBook 15-in, then check out HP's dv5 Pavilion Notebook PC, you will see a lot of similarity in their appearances. All have elegant looks that the Unibody MacBooks cannot match. Although I collect a lot of Macs, I do like the look of the HP dv5. I still deem HP dv5 will win a beauty contest against the current Unibody MacBooks. Perhaps it is possible to put OS X on the dv5.

 

[Pika]

Is that plastic?

 

[edwardh]

New Microsoft Ad

The notebook PC that Shiela finally walked out the door with was a HP Pavilion dv6. It is slightly larger than dv5, but still retains the nice metallic and quality look.

 

[edwardh]

Is that plastic?

Higher end models are metal while low end models are plastic.

 

[Pika]

Some people consider the Mac Pro to be a portable - notice handles for easy carrying. Perhaps, according to your logic, it ought to be renamed, the Mac Pro Totable.

You can!

Turn your Mac Pro 8-core 2.93GHz Nehalem 4TB hard-drive with 32GB of RAM into a mega MacBook Pro!

PUUUUURE WIN!!!

 

[Eidorian]

PUUUUURE WIN!!!

I for one agree with you entirely.

 

[lifeinhd]

Ports on the sides of the computers are a necessity and do not make them look "ugly".

I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious that he was being sarcastic...

 

[tubbymac]

I actually had a HP dv5t for a week before I returned it. There is no way any of the HP dvt models compares to a Macbook in terms of looks. The seams on the plastic don't even match up perfectly where the edges of the plastic meet together. It also feels and looks really bulky. The Macbook is in a whole other league of design, sorry.

Even in the first Microsoft commercial, that Lauren chick likes the look of the Dell machine better than the HP (even though she doesn't know that it's a Dell Studio 17 she's talking about).