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Apple concerns me, Windows 7 intrigues...

B

bananabar

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 10, 2008
218
0
I've always seen Apple as an innovator and as being strides ahead of the competition. But I feel this is changing.

I really want a laptop with a touch screen and I'm sure it's coming - just not from Apple. Steve Jobs has even said that touchscreen computers are not something he's interested in. Whilst people like Dell and HP are suggesting they have them around the corner.

Add to this the fact that Microsoft are previewing Windows 7 with its multi-touch interface and all sorts of innovations whilst Apple are previewing Snow Leopard - an OS which will just run better/more stable even though they always go on about how stable OS X already is.

And to top it off the new MBPs really are not a desirable laptop - certainly not as desirable as the old ones were. That glossy screen is such a no-no.

Are Apple really moving away from innovating and just moving to mass production and profit-making...?
 
You make a very good point. I feel I must say this:

Apple is continuing to innovate. Snow Leopard, though most of the changes in it are under the hood type things, are of vast importance to the future of Mac OS X going forward, and will put it leaps and bounds ahead of Windows.

For example, look at the way Microsoft tried to introduce 64-bit support into Windows, and how miserable of a failure it turned out to be (low adoption rates, poor driver/software support). Contrast that with the gradual approach Apple's taken.
 
From the title, I thought this was going to be more of a discussion on OS X vs Windows 7, it seems more like a "why doesn't Apple release a touch screen computer" and "I don't like the new MB / MBP"

If you have a use for a touch screen laptop, I can understand wanting an Apple designed one.

However, I don't understand how this would be an advantage over a keyboard/trackpad/mouse. Considering working all day, it does not seem comfortable to have your arms out manipulating the screen instead of resting them on a desk.

I can see the benefit, in tablet style devices, since it would allow the function of a keyboard/trackpad/mouse without have an actual keyboard/trackpad/mouse. (see iPhone, iPod Touch)

Also with regards to Snow Leopard, the focus isn't just on stability, though of course that is important with any OS. It's more streamlining the footprint of the software and making it more efficient and productive.

From http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/

  • Out of the box Microsoft Exchange Support
  • "Grand Central" for multi-core performance
  • 64-bit technology for additional RAM capacity
  • Quicktime X for better playback of more codecs
  • OpenCL for transferring processing workload to a GPU

With Apple moving to Intel chips, hardware has become more similar in comparing Macs and PCs. The advantages of OS X over Windows has always been a point of discussion in Macs vs. PCs. By improving OS X, Apple is adding more substance to this point.

Keep in mind, Apple, along with any company, are in a business to make money. I think Apple is better than other companies in bringing quality products over gimmicks to make profits.

However, I do feel Apple should consider their decisions when it affects a consumers opportunity to choose. (See FireWire/Glossy/Kensington on MacBooks and App Approval/3rd party accessories for iPhones)

Apple products still work for me and I hope it stays that way.
 
I guess ultimately, I was saying that I think I won't automatically get a Mac next time. I've been blindly buying Apple stuff for several years but with all the trouble I've had with my iPhone and the mediocre MBPs, I will seriously consider a PC and Windows.
 
Touchscreen laptops are just retarded and quite frankly I'm glad Apple isn't wasting their money on R&Ding it. Who wants to hold their arm up to a screen to use their computer? :rolleyes:
 
I don't have a need for a touch screen Mac. It would be cool, but I'd never use it.

You don't think Apple's glass touch pad is a huge innovation? 4 finger gestures? It isn't a touch screen laptop, but never the less, the multi-touch trackpad beats having a touch screen any day. It increases productivity (assuming you aren't someone who'd use a graphics tablet).

bananabar said:
I guess ultimately, I was saying that I think I won't automatically get a Mac next time. I've been blindly buying Apple stuff for several years but with all the trouble I've had with my iPhone and the mediocre MBPs, I will seriously consider a PC and Windows.
Click to expand...

Haha. Good luck with that.
 
emt1 said:
Touchscreen laptops are just retarded and quite frankly I'm glad Apple isn't wasting their money on R&Ding it. Who wants to hold their arm up to a screen to use their computer? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You'd be saying exactly the same if computers had always been touchscreen and I was suggesting a computer with a little pad that you moved your finger on to make a little arrow point at things which then allowed you to press a button to select it.

Saying they're 'retarded' is very blinkered. Do you not have an iPhone? A lot of people don't see that as retarded and choose to stick with their Nokia 3210.

And who wants to hold their arm up? Those who aren't so lazy as to move their hand six inches from the keyboard to the screen.
 
possibility of apple touchscreen computer

I think apple knows that, especially at this point, the market for a touchscreen computer is there but it's not that vast. The R&D they would put into it would be vast so it doesn't make sense for them now. Maybe later... we will certainly see. To the OP, have you looked at the modbook and what are your thoughts?
 
When Apple released the iPod there was almost no market for a HDD music player - they created the market and as a result have the largest share.

I really think that in the next few years laptops will have a mousepad, keyboard and touchscreen. And I want one!
 
They're gonna have to do something to remove the flex you experience when touching the screen on a laptop or those hinges are gonna fail even sooner.
 
bananabar said:
I've always seen Apple as an innovator and as being strides ahead of the competition. But I feel this is changing.

I really want a laptop with a touch screen and I'm sure it's coming - just not from Apple. Steve Jobs has even said that touchscreen computers are not something he's interested in. Whilst people like Dell and HP are suggesting they have them around the corner.

Add to this the fact that Microsoft are previewing Windows 7 with its multi-touch interface and all sorts of innovations whilst Apple are previewing Snow Leopard - an OS which will just run better/more stable even though they always go on about how stable OS X already is.
Click to expand...

After reading this, I really fail to see what this thread is about other than a drawn-out "Apple isn't making a touch-screen and I'm MAD" complaint. We as the consumer are at the mercy of what the producers put on the market. If you have a need a product [touch screen] not produced by a certain producer [Apple] you will have to look elsewhere. If you absolutely have to have a touch screen, you'll have to deal with an operating system other than OS X.

Furthermore I fail to see how touch screens are an "innovation" at this point. When they introduced the iPod, it was a reinvention of the industry. Touch screens and tablets have been around for a long time. To say that Apple would somehow revolutionize the market is a great way to set yourself up for huge disappointment (see: Apple Newton). Innovation has little to do with it.

On the stability issue: I would be concerned if any company stopped trying to make their products better. Fact of the matter is that for everyday usage OS X is a very stable operating system, and most of the stability improvements likely to be made won't affect the average user.

And to top it off the new MBPs really are not a desirable laptop - certainly not as desirable as the old ones were. That glossy screen is such a no-no.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The glossy screen on the MBP *AND* the new ACD is terrible news for some of the industries that have kept Apple alive throughout the tougher times- namely the pro photography and video industries (that depend on accurate color presentation to be successful). Not having matte as even an option is, in my opinion, quite a disturbing mistake.

Different things work for different people. If you're comfortable using Windows and need a touch screen, I really don't see why you're wasting your time waiting for Apple to put one out for you. Windows (contrary to what many young, ignorant, and/or impetuous users on these forums will tell you) is very good at certain things that OS X is not. The opposite is also true. The bottom line is to weigh what you need against how long you're willing to wait for the "ideal" product to hit the shelves, not to post whiny complaints on the forums.
 
I would have to say that it really comes down to taste. There are those who would really like the tablet PC market to expand to more than a gimick and those who feel like there's no place for it. I think that Microsoft is doing the right thing here making sure to opposite it's OS for touchscreening.
 
bananabar said:
Do you not have an iPhone? A lot of people don't see that as retarded and choose to stick with their Nokia 3210.
Click to expand...
Phone != Computer. Two different UIs for two different input methods. It seems that Apple believes that the keyboard and mouse is the best input method for Mac OS X devices for the price. So touchscreen appears to be limited to iPhone OS devices for the time being.
 
I agree partially with OP

Steve has often said that the consumer doesn't know what they want until you give it to them.

And I'm pretty sure it was rumoredb that Apple was developing a touch interface for OS X before the iPhone was developed on, and all of those features went into the iPhone, whereas touch-OS X was put on the long finger.
 
And a touch screen would need to be cleaned a lot more often! Touch screens are fine when you're holding something on your hand, but it would be tiring to have to stick your hand out and touch the screen all the time.
 
bananabar said:
...

I really want a laptop with a touch screen and I'm sure it's coming - just not from Apple. ...
Click to expand...
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the touch screen is hardly innovative. It predates the GUI. It predates the mouse.

I don't think you get Apple at all. Others add features for features sake. Others add features because they are "cool." Others add features because they pull an idea of their butts. Apple adds features to add to the experience of using the computer. Its new features are added in such a way as to be intuitive and natural.

This is not to say that all new features added by Apple are successful. The DVD-RAM comes to mind. Voice commands are still in the OS, but are rarely used. However, there have been decades of experience with touch screens--though not necessarily with Apple. The feature has applications in niche markets, but it is most certainly not worth added to Apple's general product line.
 
bananabar said:
I've always seen Apple as an innovator and as being strides ahead of the competition. But I feel this is changing.

I really want a laptop with a touch screen and I'm sure it's coming - just not from Apple. Steve Jobs has even said that touchscreen computers are not something he's interested in. Whilst people like Dell and HP are suggesting they have them around the corner.

Add to this the fact that Microsoft are previewing Windows 7 with its multi-touch interface and all sorts of innovations whilst Apple are previewing Snow Leopard - an OS which will just run better/more stable even though they always go on about how stable OS X already is.

And to top it off the new MBPs really are not a desirable laptop - certainly not as desirable as the old ones were. That glossy screen is such a no-no.

Are Apple really moving away from innovating and just moving to mass production and profit-making...?
Click to expand...

Windows 7 is a huge load of crap. The OS looks really weird and actually a step back from Vista. Windows 7 will have Vista at it's core and basically another GUI. Meanwhile Apple's OS has been streamlined many times and is very light. Leopard can run with far less resources than Vista can and with better performance.

You claim touchscreen is just around the corner for HP and Dell. I remember them saying that about 2 years ago. And it's not practical for desktops. I will not bend forward and use my arm to tap things on the screen. It's cool to do, but after awhile, your arm gets sore and its not productive. The glossy screen on MBP being a "no-no" is pure opinion. Matte makes things look more dull and distorts light, nobody does serious graphic work on a laptop. How are the new MBPs not desirable? Will you care to elaborate?


bananabar said:
I guess ultimately, I was saying that I think I won't automatically get a Mac next time. I've been blindly buying Apple stuff for several years but with all the trouble I've had with my iPhone and the mediocre MBPs, I will seriously consider a PC and Windows.
Click to expand...

The iPhone had problems. I totally agree. But they fixed them in less than half a year. MS is still touting Vista after nearly 2 years. SP1 made things slower and a computer with XP SP3 could easily blow right past it in performance benchmarks, while using a lesser spec computer. The MBPs are not mediocre, if multi-touch is mediocre, then what about not having it?

bananabar said:
You'd be saying exactly the same if computers had always been touchscreen and I was suggesting a computer with a little pad that you moved your finger on to make a little arrow point at things which then allowed you to press a button to select it.

Saying they're 'retarded' is very blinkered. Do you not have an iPhone? A lot of people don't see that as retarded and choose to stick with their Nokia 3210.

And who wants to hold their arm up? Those who aren't so lazy as to move their hand six inches from the keyboard to the screen.
Click to expand...

I will not hold my arm up for long periods of time. Not on a desktop or laptop. The laptop would be too low and the screen too small. The desktop would be too high. But if they offered this with keyboard/mice option, I would try it. Multi-touch is toeing the line between no touchscreen and full blown out touchscreen. People need to adjust step by step, so multi-touch is perfect right now, just for now.

bananabar said:
When Apple released the iPod there was almost no market for a HDD music player - they created the market and as a result have the largest share.

I really think that in the next few years laptops will have a mousepad, keyboard and touchscreen. And I want one!
Click to expand...

Markets are always being created. We didn't have a computer market before, and now its huge. Same with cellphones and electronics in general. Nothing wrong with that. I agree with you, HP already has a computer like that out. Not that expensive and the price actually makes me think about using it, but the Windows aspect is making me stop.
 
It's the "I'm a PC" ads taking a hold on you!

Actually I agree with the OP. Windows 7 is pretty exciting. I haven't been so excited about an OS release since Windows 95 and I think Windows 7 has the potential to evolve the computing world a bit further. Because seriously, computing 8 years ago isn't that much different from computing today. It's a bit faster, more stable, but there hasn't been really any paradigm shifts since Windows went NT and Mac went OS X.

Although Windows 7 is essentially a makeover of Vista, it provides a lot of usability features to situations I currently find annoying or tedious on both Vista and OS X. And then there's also the multitouch interface. I can totally use a multitouch computer by the kitchen or near the front door for fooling around. I think it's a great step forward and I'm glad someone is gunning for it.

Electronic stores have been pretty boring the past couple of years. Remember how a trip to Best Buy used to be exciting when Windows 95 came out? Maybe Windows 7 can stimulate some new growth in multitouch devices.
 
windows 7

windows 7 sucks if ms does not fix the core problems it will bankrupt ms. so far it uses vista and just has gui changes you need 4 gb ram to actually make it usable.
 
bananabar said:
I've always seen Apple as an innovator and as being strides ahead of the competition. But I feel this is changing.

I really want a laptop with a touch screen and I'm sure it's coming - just not from Apple. Steve Jobs has even said that touchscreen computers are not something he's interested in. Whilst people like Dell and HP are suggesting they have them around the corner.

Add to this the fact that Microsoft are previewing Windows 7 with its multi-touch interface and all sorts of innovations whilst Apple are previewing Snow Leopard - an OS which will just run better/more stable even though they always go on about how stable OS X already is.

And to top it off the new MBPs really are not a desirable laptop - certainly not as desirable as the old ones were. That glossy screen is such a no-no.

Are Apple really moving away from innovating and just moving to mass production and profit-making...?
Click to expand...

There's a company that mods macbooks and macbook pros into touchscreens. You might want to try them out.
 
I don't see how your argument has any strength at all. I may as well say that I'm angry that Audi hasn't made a car that runs on dreams and happy thoughts, CAUSE I WANT IT.

As many people have stated: using a desktop touchscreen computer is really not very comfortable.
 
bananabar said:
Who said anything about a desktop?
Click to expand...

And stretching your arms out to touch the screen of a laptop the whole day is better?
Come on, touch screens on desktop and laptop computers are a gimmick right now, something cool to show your friends and foes, as compensation like pimped cars.

If they however introduced a touchscreen keyboard that would be another matter.
You could rest your arms, but you would be looking more often at the touchscreen keyboard and straining your neck.

If Apple introduces a touch sensitive input device, it will be like the trackpads, or something else that doesn't distract from working, and does not put to much strain on our body.
 
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