I remember when the forums actually had people who liked Apple products. Now all people do is come here to bitch and moan about everything under the sun. I'm not sure if that speaks volumes about the site or Apple or society in general.
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Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'
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I had the same question and it seems Apple has officially confirmed that the new quieter keyboard is only for the mid 2018 model, so if we send our 2016 or 2017 we'll get the second generation keyboard, hopefully more reliable but not quieter.
To be fair, they never said this.
They said the keyboard is quieter.
They never said anything about dirt at all.
They never said anything about the rubber gaskets at all.
Why does Apple have such a hard time admitting that it screwed up?
"Our bad. We'll fix your keyboards for free if they have the problem. Here's what we did to improve reliability going forward."
That's all they have to do. Instead they dance around it and are all mysterious and don't tell us anything.
TALK TO US, APPLE. Everyone makes mistakes, even big companies. At least fess up and admit that you *FIXED* the problem!
"Our bad. We'll fix your keyboards for free if they have the problem. Here's what we did to improve reliability going forward."
That's all they have to do. Instead they dance around it and are all mysterious and don't tell us anything.
TALK TO US, APPLE. Everyone makes mistakes, even big companies. At least fess up and admit that you *FIXED* the problem!
Innovation comes with a risk, and the introduction of the butterfly keyboard had of course its risks. However, a fail in the first generation is understandable, but failing in the second generation too can only mean that the iOS device fever distracted Apple from the focus they used to have.
Everyone should write tcook@apple.com. Complain. They have someone monitoring this email.
In an internal document distributed to Apple Authorized Service Providers, obtained by MacRumors from a reliable source, Apple has confirmed that the third-generation keyboard on 2018 MacBook Pro models is equipped with a "membrane" to "prevent debris from entering the butterfly mechanism."
Image Credit: iFixit
The relevant excerpt from the service document:In its teardown of the new 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar last week, the repair experts at iFixit were first to discover the thin, silicone barrier underneath the keycaps, and theorized that it was to prevent dust indeed.
Publicly, Apple has only confirmed that 2018 MacBook Pro models feature an "improved third-generation keyboard for quieter typing," but many suspected that the silicon membrane was actually to prevent "contaminate ingress," fancy speak for the crumbs from your sandwich that you ate at your desk for lunch.
Following years of anecdotal complaints from customers, and a few class action lawsuits, Apple initiated a worldwide service program last month, offering free repairs of 2015-and-later MacBook and 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro keyboards, which are equipped with low-profile butterfly switch mechanisms.
We've already reported about the service program in more detail, but the gist is that those particular MacBook and MacBook Pro models can experience issues with sticky, unresponsive, or inconsistently functioning keys when small particles like dust or crumbs get stuck underneath the shallower keycaps.
We've reached out to Apple for comment.
More details to follow...
Article Link: Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'
Apple is so bad at addressing issues. It makes me so angry. First, there was the throttling on iPhones with depleted batteries. Now in this case, I think their technical approach made a lot of sense. However, their ability to actually address the issue was awful, and it made things spiral out of control.
For this one, it's like... can't you just tell us that keyboards replaced with the current replacement program will come back with membrane covered keyboards? I think most of us would be fine with that.
For this one, it's like... can't you just tell us that keyboards replaced with the current replacement program will come back with membrane covered keyboards? I think most of us would be fine with that.
This.
The biggest and best companies in the world have problems, some a lot more than others. The difference is who they own up to it rather than try to seep it under the carpet. The best thing they can do to restore customer faith is come out and say "We are in the process of manufacturing 2016/17 era top case with membranes that should resolve all issues with the keyboard going forward. Thank you for your patience.". Just like that, you will have all the detractors praising Apple for owning the situation and making right a wrong. As it stands, I am very wary of spending £3k on a new MBP because who knows what else is going to go wrong with these machines in 6 months time, and I need to be confident that Apple will own up to any issues and not try to fleece me for an extortionate top case or MLB repair due to a manufacturing issue!
Let's see:
Doesn't make the best impression to me
- Apple designed a faulty keyboard in order to make the MBP 0.01 mm thinner
- Apple denied the problem even as data and hard facts proved them otherwise
- Only after some class action lawsuits went public Apple launched a keyboard replacement program
- Apple replaces faulty 2016 and 2017 keyboards with the same old faulty designed keyboards that will fail again - it's just a matter of time
- Apple released a new MBP with a fixed keyboard. This keyboard won't be available to 2016/2017 MBP owners.
- If you want a working keyboard just spend another 2,400-7,000 USD to buy a new 2018 MBP but please don't do anything more than surfing the web, sending emails or writhing a letter. Otherwise your powerful 6-core MBP will start throttling down to 800 MHz.
I understand we like to complain.. but let's see
- Apple designed an innovative keyboard for current and future designs to become thinner...in this case almost 20% thinner.
- Some folks had issues with debris ingress ... apple shared data that it was a small number, but not small enough if its you thats effected.
- lawyers got too be lawyers and went after deep pockets.
- apple agrees to extend warrantee on keyboard for up to 4 years.
- apple improves keyboard design for future designs. the new design is not compatible with past designs. we still don't know if apple is not also improving past designs.
- lets make an irrelevant comment about other design issues.
I don't know, maybe admitting the problem would be bad for the class actions so they need to pretend the issue is limited to a small amount of customers and the fix is just to make the keyboard quieter.
The document we're talking about is internal and is for repair centres, although it states that they put a membrane to prevent dust from entering it isn't stating that dust was causing issues, that's a logical conclusion but is not their official position.
The official repair program was a necessary admission of flawed design. This only proves what most of us knew already, that making the keyboard quieter was the membrane's secondary purpose, but a better one for Apple to market.
The silicone is what dampens the keys and makes the keyboard “quieter.” As soon as I saw this it was obvious that this was really the only change they made.
Just remove the keyboard. That should provide plenty of ventilation.
Enough folk had issues it would seem that Apple thought necessary to totally redesign the whole keyboard with a new membrane, that internally they admit is for debris. Do you really think if it was that small a number they would have made any changes? My bet is that the number is between 10-15% of all service requests on the 2016 onwards MBP. That is a huge number in relation to service requests!
Does this really fix the issue? It looks like there's a way for debris to get under there - and maybe worse - it looks like it might trap unwanted debris in there...
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The amount of the hubris within Apple is dazzling.
At the end of the day, it obviously is just another company. So much for all those “make the world a better place, make best products for people” horsesh*t.
At the end of the day, it obviously is just another company. So much for all those “make the world a better place, make best products for people” horsesh*t.
Apple doubled down on stupid, first with the "New Mac Pro!" no one was asking for (design wise) and then decided after that debacle to actually go with a MacBook Pro without any ports, and removed the SD card slot...the biggest blunder of the whole thing.
All they need to do is a recall and fix the keyboards so they don't keep failing. Refund the money for anyone who already paid for repairs... even in the form of a gift card, I'd think that would pretty much halt the class action stuff from turning into something huge.
I have a 2017 and have not had any issues with my keyboard, but I keep it hooked to an external monitor most of the time and that has given me very little time to get crumbs into the keyboard.
I have a 2017 and have not had any issues with my keyboard, but I keep it hooked to an external monitor most of the time and that has given me very little time to get crumbs into the keyboard.
Let's see:
Doesn't make the best impression to me
- Apple designed a faulty keyboard in order to make the MBP 0.01 mm thinner
- Apple denied the problem even as data and hard facts proved them otherwise
- Only after some class action lawsuits went public Apple launched a keyboard replacement program
- Apple replaces faulty 2016 and 2017 keyboards with the same old faulty designed keyboards that will fail again - it's just a matter of time
- Apple released a new MBP with a fixed keyboard. This keyboard won't be available to 2016/2017 MBP owners.
- If you want a working keyboard just spend another 2,400-7,000 USD to buy a new 2018 MBP but please don't do anything more than surfing the web, sending emails or writhing a letter. Otherwise your powerful 6-core MBP will start throttling down to 800 MHz.
We all know what's going to happen once a designer with real talent and a focus on robustness and "complete design" is installed in place of Jony J-Ive. Commercials with dazzling effects will fill the airwaves (err...streaming data) with voiceovers extoling Apple's radical new wildness ideas of 20 hour batteries and replaceable hardware and....wait for it....the introduction of MAGSAFE 3 and a few neighborly ports, for such wow machine powerful! Amazing so! Best in class! Let Microsoft have their silly sleek "girly man" wimpy-looking Surfaces! Apple will have this powerful, robust, multi-port, clickity-clack keyboard, that's only 1/4 lb heavier but oh such magical user-friendly additions.
It's coming. Just wait. May need to really wait. But it'll come. I feel we're hitting bottom with this dumb fascination on thinness, lightness, fragileness, white/greyness, minimalismness up the wazoo... You can only go so thin before someone with a grain of common sense in the Apple boardroom jumps up and screams "think different."
ah, so you are looking for a full computer replacement for the latest model, probably?
I still don’t believe that the issue is debris. If debris was the problem they wouldn’t need to replace the keyboards. They could just clean them.
I’ve used multiple cans of compressed air on my 2016, and nothing has helped my malfunctioning B key.
I have been a member of MacNN since '02 (rip) and had been reading MacRumors in that time frame (not posting). I'm sure there were *some* positive postsI’ve been here a pretty long time. I don’t remember that
Apple. It's Apple. If we're happy, or mostly happy, there's not much reason to complain. Speaking for myself, I only discovered this site in 2013 after iOS7 came out and I was dumbfounded by its inferior design (and royally pi**ed that it bricked my iPhone 4). I started googling and looking to see if I was the only one who thought this was a disaster. First time in around 10 years of ownership I looked online for help with an Apple product and to see if there was a problem here that only I was experiencing. Apple has faded from design & usability-first leadership since 2013 in its misguided slide towards focusing on fashion-first.
Please don't be so condescending to others because your keyboard still works.
Apple admitted the keyboards have a design flaw.
All the reviewers know the keyboards have a design flaw.
Lot's of people have a problem with those keyboards.
There are numerous threads on this site and on others sites about the faulty keyboards.
And you are still blaming people for crumbing food over it? Maybe the person you reacted to treats his/hers laptop with utter care. You simply can't know.
How ignorant can you be?
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